The Walking Dead Season 2

[morgs]

I like the show and all and I can easily look past things like ninja zombies or bad writing, but the katana girl with her two zombie pets seems way out of place even in this show. She might have fit in the comics but really?

At least don't introduce her in the middle of a woodland.

 

[CptStern]

ya pretty much

 

[The Monkey]

Ah for ****'s sake, Stern. The series' focus is clearly on the tale of people who find themselves in a dangerous and challenging situation. The zombie outbreak itself has always been in the background. Under that premiss, unrealistic elements relating to that survival, such as Herschel having unlimited ammo, undermines that concept because it removes human elements, such as vulnerability, from the story. It thus serves to move the humans as well as the zombies to the fantasy/sci-fi realm, which will in the long term hinder the ability for the audience to relate to the characters' plight and struggle.

 

[Vegeta897]

He's not going to listen, Monkey. Just let him post his idiotic spam with his fingers in his ears.

 

[knut]

lol but monkey ZOMBEIS!

you're going to get nowhere with this argument, i've tried it countless times. as long as stern is happy with the show and there is a figure somewhere on AMC's site that he can pull up saying that a million other people are enjoying the show then he isn't going to back down and just let you have a logical criticism. not in a million years.

the problem with this whole thing is that stern is going to keep going back to suspension of belief argument because he believes this whole thing goes straight into the ''unrealistic'' pile just because he hasn't got the imagination to believe in a grander scale then what's going on in his front garden. yes, stern - the dead no not walk. also, alien lifeforms do not burst out of john hurt, dragons never did fly in medieval england, there would never be a rescue mission of 8 soldiers in occupied france 1944... i mean, does the whole back to the future trilogy not appeal to you because it is actually scientifically impossible to go backwards in time? what about the cup of the holy grail in indy 3? cloning dinosaurs and putting them into a theme park? robots coming from the future to change the flow of time? bumbling comedians that BUST GHOSTS?

they are all suspensions of belief but they exist within their own universe where the director and writer has an artistic license to play to his design and script. with the walking dead, they imagined a society on collapse because the walking undead, much like romero has done before. i think when you lost all that belief out the window from the get go then you probably should of stopped watching then, surely? you keep telling us to stop watching because we dislike it but never once do any of us with criticisms dislike this show because of it's premise. no, we have the imagination or the open-minded acceptance to appreciate the setting, the context. it doesn't bother us one bit. what does bother us? like monkey said, the real suspensions of belief like unlimited ammo, amazing accuracy, awful, overly dramatic characters like lori who change face almost every ten minutes, the lack of exposition between characters, furthering us as viewers away from ever feeling anything for them (i mean, who the **** was jimmy anyway?! oh yeah, another excuse to pull a fake body apart and splash some blood everywhere, that's what! amazing character writing!!! glad the writer who made him up got paid well right guys!), awful decisions made by characters like shane and carl in the previous episode with the ''execution'' location... eh just go through the thread for the criticisms, there all there.

i mean, if you like it when you like it and you'll hear no fuss from me. i and some others don't and this being a forum and all is a good enough place to talk about it, so we'll keep doing just that and you'll just have to either respond with some actual defence to our points, because the ''unrealistic'' argument just isn't enough for me.

 

[CptStern]

Ah for ****'s sake, Stern. The series' focus is clearly on the tale of people who find themselves in a dangerous and challenging situation. The zombie outbreak itself has always been in the background. Under that premiss, unrealistic elements relating to that survival, such as Herschel having unlimited ammo, undermines that concept because it removes human elements, such as vulnerability, from the story.

? by having seemingly unlimited ammo? that breaks suspension of disbelief but the setting doesnt? you could have easily just assumed herschel reloaded off screen as there were plenty of opportunities to do so. All I'm saying is take the setting into consideration before you start nitpicking little things that are really minor in comparison to the overall picture

the problem with this whole thing is that stern is going to keep going back to suspension of belief argument because he believes this whole thing goes straight into the ''unrealistic'' pile just because he hasn't got the imagination to believe in a grander scale then what's going on in his front garden. yes, stern - the dead no not walk. also, alien lifeforms do not burst out of john hurt, dragons never did fly in medieval england, there would never be a rescue mission of 8 soldiers in occupied france 1944... i mean, does the whole back to the future trilogy not appeal to you because it is actually scientifically impossible to go backwards in time?

I'm actually arguing the opposite; that suspension of disbelief is flexible and not rigid; so long as it plays within it's own realm of possibility ie: dragons in medieval england being chased by a mustachiod guy in a 80's ferrari it's not broken. so I'm less concerned about unlimited ammo in my serious zombie show than if they were to throw in a zombie song and dance number

also for the record I couldnt give two shits whether you like or not. I'm just surprised anyone would watch something they dislike week after week after week. this show is pretty much unique in that sense. and it's not just here. it's all over the internet. the most hated show in america is actually only hated by a tiny overly vocal minority who for some unfathomable reason watch it week after week

 

[Viperidae]

I'm pretty sure Stern thought Greedo shooting first was a good idea too.

In all fairness, though, it mostly just comes down to taste, and to some extent, how much emotion is taking over from brain activity. I'm guilty of ignoring a movie's obvious contradictions and plot holes if I'm really emotionally invested. On the other hand, if the movie/show is expecting me to be smart to keep up, I'm going to tear it a new asshole if it stretches plausibility too far.

All in all, American shows (and even most miniseries) depend entirely on emotional impact (dumber viewers, lower budgets), hence their string-like plots that clearly weren't planned out ahead of time. All shows are planned with the assumption that the money could run out before next season. Writing a consistent narrative that relies on plot development, logic, and an apt viewers rather than emotional wank is hard when under these constraints.

So basically: keep paying and shoving popcorn into your face.

 

[Krynn72]

? by having seemingly unlimited ammo? that breaks suspension of disbelief but the setting doesnt?

I seem to recall that limited ammo was a concern in this setting. Like I could swear that just one episode Rick was telling Shane they needed to conserve ammo, and that in other episodes they had to reload their weapons accurately.

I could forgive it if it was consistent. In Firefly they had unlimited ammo and were even using six shooters, but it was explained and remained consistent. A Magic shotgun that sometimes has infinite ammo and other times does does tend to break the suspension.

the most hated show in america is actually only hated by a tiny overly vocal minority who for some unfathomable reason watch it week after week

You of all people should know how fun it is to interact with things you hate.

 

[knut]

? by having seemingly unlimited ammo? that breaks suspension of disbelief but the setting doesnt? you could have easily just assumed herschel reloaded off screen as there were plenty of opportunities to do so. All I'm saying is take the setting into consideration before you start nitpicking little things that are really minor in comparison to the overall picture

it's a massive suspension of belief because this show is meant to be about the weight of the dying world on these poor, dwindling, broken characters shoulders, but to see them just yee-haw'ing their way through ammo - when it has been stressed to have been low - is one of the massive **** you's to the narrative structure, even if it's a tiny detail. or the ninja zombies, or the cruddy execution location, carl shooting over rick's shoulder, lori being a massive hypocrite, dead-eye accuracy out of a car window, everyone is a pro at headshots whilst running... yeah, it's all the tiny details, stern, but when you start to roll them all together you gotta start thinking about what's left that's actually good. usually the tiny details that are bad are pretty minor in a show made up of amazing elements, but it's a little vice versa on this show. racking my brains to think of what good came out of the last episode, really am.

All in all, American shows (and even most miniseries) depend entirely on emotional impact (dumber viewers, lower budgets), hence their string-like plots that clearly weren't planned out ahead of time. All shows are planned with the assumption that the money could run out before next season. Writing a consistent narrative that relies on plot development, logic, and an apt viewers rather than emotional wank is hard when under these constraints.

yeah, i get what you're are saying, but what about all the shows are consistent with all that and worked perfectly because of it? the sopranos and the wire for instance, they took a gamble on making ridiculously high-brow television for the intelligent viewer but look at them now! it's like the staple of great american series drama, or at least for the 00's it is. and from that we now have a generation of shows like boardwalk empire, generation kill, mad men, breaking bad and as of recently game of thrones, and that was taking a gamble on top of a gamble by going one further step in the ''wrong'' direction by having it cast under the fantasy umbrella, and look at that show now, gearing up in full throttle for season two with millions in advertising and promotion behind it's back, at a point where average joe college frat boy probably even enjoys the show regardless of how many dungeons and dragons nerds he was beating on during high school.

what happened to the walking dead, though? it's going backwards in a time when great television is going forwards. out of all the big hitters i can think of these days, it's the one i keep coming back to and thinking ''where did this go wrong?'' when it had an amazing comic backstory behind and then frank darabont onboard to begin with. there have been worse foundations, that's for sure!

 

[CptStern]

I seem to recall that limited ammo was a concern in this setting. Like I could swear that just one episode Rick was telling Shane they needed to conserve ammo, and that in other episodes they had to reload their weapons accurately.

I could forgive it if it was consistent. In Firefly they had unlimited ammo and were even using six shooters, but it was explained and remained consistent. A Magic shotgun that sometimes has infinite ammo and other times does does tend to break the suspension.

in the season ender andrea ran out of ammo (she had the gun bag and still ran out of ammo). her gun also jammed (because it made her situation that much more desperate). herschel could have easily reloaded off camera. the point was that up until the last minute herschel was going to go down protecting his farm. that was the point of him shooting all those walkers; most of the time the camera was pointed at him instead of his victems while he was firing; further hammering in the point that herschel was ready to die. and yes I did think "infinte ammo" during the scene but realised why they had filmed it that way

You of all people should know how fun it is to interact with things you hate

I dont know if that translates to a tv show. I mean I hate Say Yes to the Dress but I dont watch it just to hate it, I dont watch it because I have no interest in it and dont care if the show goes off the rails or not. now if the show became self mocking then I might watch just because of confirmation bias thingy

I'm pretty sure Stern thought Greedo shooting first was a good idea too.

how can you so drastically misinterpret what I've been saying all along. if anything, everything I said would lead someone to believe that I'd much rather Han solo shot first as it suited the mythos behind the character. as a character solo turned for me once he became less of a rogue and more of a boyscout who's shoes skywalker already wore

it's a massive suspension of belief because this show is meant to be about the weight of the dying world on these poor, dwindling, broken characters shoulders, but to see them just yee-haw'ing their way through ammo - when it has been stressed to have been low - is one of the massive **** you's to the narrative structure, even if it's a tiny detail.

it fit the narrative: rick and company saw herschel's farm as their only safe harbor and were attempting to kill every last one of them. it wasnt till they were midway into clearing out the flock when they realised the numbers of zombies made it hopeless

or the ninja zombies,

ninja zombies?

or the cruddy execution location

the barn? that was the best place for it because the barn was symbolic of the dead (the dead who herschel was harborign int he hopes of a cure) and they were going to use it to execute the living completely going against the earlier mantra of "we dont kill the living"

carl shooting over rick's shoulder

admittedly I thought that was weak however it was done as a way of manufacturing suspense

lori being a massive hypocrite

the flipflop wasnt that much of a flipflop as she had regretted the rick shane conflict due to her actions and was upset since she seemed to be turning a new leaf with shane. admittedly it was too abrupt and I would have preferred they kept with the macbeth theme instead

dead-eye accuracy out of a car window, everyone is a pro at headshots whilst running...

I commented on that earlier in this thread. not a deal breaker for me as it's a device used in pretty much every action movie ever

yeah, it's all the tiny details, stern, but when you start to roll them all together you gotta start thinking about what's left that's actually good. usually the tiny details that are bad are pretty minor in a show made up of amazing elements, but it's a little vice versa on this show. racking my brains to think of what good came out of the last episode, really am.

then you'll stop watching it, yes?

breakin bad has a ton of plot holes or gaps in credibility however it's still a well written show. I dont need 100% realism. in fact it doesnt even have to come remotely close to 100% (razor wire bolos ftw) so long as it works within it's own of possibility

 

[Krynn72]

and yes I did think "infinte ammo" during the scene but realised why they had filmed it that way

Oh, so you weren't able to suspend your disbelief, and, in fact, was jarred out of it so you could think about the purpose of filming it that way in order to make sense of it. So your argument isn't really "I can suspend my disbelief and ignore it" but rather "yeah, I catch myself disbelieving, but am ok with it."

Some people dont find having to think about the intent behind the filmography in order to continue watching the show an enjoyable aspect. When I am watching Rome, or Band of Brothers, or Mad Men or Boardwalk Empire, I am immersed in the setting, not withdrawn from it in order rationalize something odd happening.

 

[CptStern]

Oh, so you weren't able to suspend your disbelief, and, in fact, was jarred out of it so you could think about the purpose of filming it that way in order to make sense of it. So your argument isn't really "I can suspend my disbelief and ignore it" but rather "yeah, I catch myself disbelieving, but am ok with it."

ya but I do that with everything. just ignoring it helps me nitpick less it doesnt break my suspension of disbelief because very few films capture my interest at that level

Some people dont find having to think about the intent behind the filmography in order to continue watching the show an enjoyable aspect.

I dont actively think about it. it just leaps to my mind. very films engross me to the point where I'm totally immersed in the film. hell I've yet to find a game that does this as I can always see invisible barriers or the carrot on the stick reward mechanism. but that doesnt stop me from enjoying it. ie I'd much rather watch a 1960's style Batman than a Nolan Batman. the character works better as camp imho. but that doesnt mean I dont enjoy the nolan movies. I do

When I am watching Rome, or Band of Brothers, or Mad Men or Boardwalk Empire, I am immersed in the setting, not withdrawn from it in order rationalize something odd happening.

I can be immersed to a point and if a point comes up that seem out of place I can let it do or I can comment on it; it usually wont turn me off unless it was a big shift in the series. the Walking Dead is what it is. it's not Breakin Bad or MASH but it doesnt have to be. I can enjoy it for what it is not what it isnt.

 

[<RJMC>]

what if the infinite shotgun ammo thing is just that hershell reloaded when the camera wasnt on him?

anyway since there was very few zombie killing in this season and most of the kills where made with close range weapons them probably they have plenty of ammo left,and also the fact they did acknowledged that they where runing out of ammo quickly when leaving the farm isnt it?

also from what I have read the tv show seem to be getting closer to the comic isnt? with the dead of shane and this katana chick

also I have seem people talking about how the survivors are dumb and how they should have fortified the farm or something but I think the show is more interesting if the characters arent all survival experts like darryl,if everyone where ubber zombie hunters like darryl it probably would get a bit boring fast and this add more realism to it since not everyone would turn into a darryl in a situation like these,thats why I kinda liked dale even if everyone would say how pointless his moral conduct is

cuz sure the reason darryl is the favorite character is cuz he is the badass cuz the character itself isnt that interesting imo but well the truth is that all the characters arent that great but I am liking hershell the most

BTW: in the comics they also are all infected? cuz this reminded me of the left4dead comics

 

[Lucid]

You're all stupid and this show is stupid but it might be improving now that they've introduced Michonne and are moving to the prison.

 

[<RJMC>]

I will risk spoiler since I already read a bit about the comics storyline,but whats the deal with the prision? why everyone is so ansious about the prision? is where that governor dude governs?

is just cuz I am more interested in seeing the characters moving instead of staying in other place again like the farm which everyone hated,so I guess the prision will be like that

like in the first season where they where around the city collecting stuff and such

 

[The Monkey]

Spoiler

Turns out the survivors will hold up at the "new farm" (eg the prison) for not one, but two seasons

Showrunner Glen Mazzara held a conference call yesterday to discuss the next season and had this to say about the prison.

"Right now, I do see the prison storyline lasting through both Season 3 and 4. I do think that is a major storyline. I know we were on the farm, perhaps, longer than people wanted. There were reasons for that. What we want is for that prison to not feel claustrophobic. I think the farm played a little claustrophobic for some people. Now that the entire landscape has fallen victim to the zombie apocalypse, zombies are literally at the gates of this prison. That prison is a very small safe corner. There is a lot of danger around. It won't feel like we are bottled up, the way we were on the farm. I do think that prison is a significant storyline, but we are also interested in opening up this world. The Governor has the world of Woodbury. There are other factors out there, other groups. I do think that Rick's group is stumbling into a much larger world."

 

[Krynn72]

Spoiler

... What we want is for that prison to not feel claustrophobic.
...It won't feel like we are bottled up, the way we were on the farm.
...we are also interested in opening up this world.

zombies are literally at the gates of this prison. That prison is a very small safe corner.

No wonder this show is a mess. This guy says one thing, does the opposite, and says the reason for doing the opposite of what he said is to achieve what he said he'd do. ****ing lol

 

[CptStern]

"The Walking Dead" season finale saw a record 9 million viewers tune in to AMC to watch the zombie drama - the highest rated episode in the series' history, according to reports.

According to the network, "The Walking Dead" is the No. 1 drama series in basic cable history with men 19-48.

with all the hate it gets it sure does get a lot of viewers (33.333333% of which intensely hate the show but watch anyways )

 

[Yuri]

 

[CptStern]

currently there is only one moron person saying this. guess who?

 

[Yuri]

it's either you or nobody, so i guess you're a moron!

bawww my signature was ruined with this forum update ohnoooo

 

[CptStern]

perhaps in your Risperdal infused world it might seem that way but no, box office receipts are never a good indication of quality

 

[Yuri]

so, like, what was the point of your post then? was it so you could berate anybody who responded to it?

oh never mind you silly goose, let's not start this up. keep on truckin' stern, the points you're making in this thread are spot on