Western Mechs vs Eastern Mecha

[Raziaar]

I really want to know what you guys prefer.

Are you the type who loves the western style typically blocky and angular mechwarrior/battletech mechs which lumber around on the ground slinging artillery at each other at long ranges

Or are you the type who likes the more artsy humanoid shaped Japanese mecha that fly around super nimble firing impossibly powerful weapons at each other and engaging in aerial melee fights?

vs

Me personally I'm a Western guy, and I don't understand why anybody could like the outrageously preposterous eastern styled mecha that are pretty much always piloted by children or teenagers... Some of which are as large as galaxies which makes absolutely zero ****ing sense.

Japanese Mechs might as well just be really large humans. I really dislike the entirely humanoid shape, even in western style mechs. But at least in the Western style mechs you get the real sense that these are incredibly large machines and the forces involved in moving them around. Very much unlike the eastern style mecha that are often much larger and fly around like they were hummingbirds.

 

[Dekstar]

A bit of both tbh:

If I had to choose between your choices though, I'd go Western too for sure. Big robots are meant to look blocky and menacing.

EDIT: Damn I love Armored Core models:

 

[Krynn72]

Mechs are stupid no matter what their origin. Just like dragons.

If I had to pick one though, then I'd pick western. If I had to pick western or eastern dragons though, I'd kill myself first.

 

[Shem]

Personally, I don't either of them.

 

[Raziaar]

Personally, I don't either of them.

Rofl. Silly mistake on my part.

@Dekstar

yeah, I just can't get into armored core models. They don't have the aesthetics I like.



@Krynn Oh come on man... you like tanks. They're just like tanks With legs!

 

[Acepilotf14]

Me personally I'm a Western guy, and I don't understand why anybody could like the outrageously preposterous eastern styled mecha that are pretty much always piloted by children or teenagers... Some of which are as large as galaxies which makes absolutely zero ****ing sense.

just saying if you watch ttgl it actually makes SOME sense how that shit happens, but its still pretty silly

I far prefer western battletech sorta stuff. Just looks so much cooler to me. But I don't mind me a bit of Eva now and then.

 

[Raziaar]

just saying if you watch ttgl it actually makes SOME sense how that shit happens, but its still pretty silly

I far prefer western battletech sorta stuff. Just looks so much cooler to me. But I don't mind me a bit of Eva now and then.

If you've seen it, could you provide some of the sense on how they have mecha that are the size of galaxies? I mean... teleportation to move around it? Okay, but how'd they construct it to begin with? Do they have a galaxy quarry somewhere to provide the materials? And why on earth would a mechathe size of galaxies need to have gaping maw grieves meant to intimidate? What are they trying to intimidate on that level? lol

 

[Acepilotf14]

If you've seen it, could you provide some of the sense on how they have mecha that are the size of galaxies? I mean... teleportation to move around it? Okay, but how'd they construct it to begin with? Do they have a galaxy quarry somewhere to provide the materials? And why on earth would a mechathe size of galaxies need to have gaping maw grieves meant to intimidate? What are they trying to intimidate on that level? lol

At that point, they're fighting the anti-spiral. And reality is ****ed up as it is. They're basically in a reality controlled by the anti-spiral and they with their silly spiral powers are fighting back and they have to keep one-upping each other, eventually ending in using galaxies like shuriken

so at that point you KICK REASON TO THE CURB and **** SHIT UP

 

[MJ12]

Eastern Mechs are not mechs. They are just large gay robots.

 

[lord_raken]

In my mind the two are not really comparable. That's not to say you can't prefer one over the other, but either one embodies an entirely different symbology, and philosophy.

The western mech is, as you say, a machine, a walking tank. It is a tactical piece of military hardware, and is only holds significance based on what it can do on the battlefield.

The eastern mech is more symbolic in its role. Instead of a military weapon the eastern mech embodies the spiritual strength of the pilots. The battles between eastern mechs often represent internal struggles or personal conflict between the two pilots. The mech is literally an extension of the pilots mind. This approach falls closely in line with he eastern concept of the warrior.

Edit: This Extra Credits video explains the difference between the way western and eastern cultures view weapons.

[video]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3261-The-Myth-of-the-Gun[/video]

The armored core pictures I think draw a nice middle ground between the two styles. I do like both styles as long as they are well done.

 

[Acepilotf14]

The eastern mech is more symbolic in its role. Instead of a military weapon the eastern mech embodies the spiritual strength of the pilots. The battles between eastern mechs often represent internal struggles or personal conflict between the two pilots. The mech is literally an extension of the pilots mind. This approach falls closely in line with he easter concept of the warrior.

Pretty much this, yeah. In Battletech and stuff, generally the pilots are unnamed; it's the machine that really matters. For some unique units, the pilots will be named, but at most it'll just give a brief history and a 'HE'S A RLY GOOD PILOT OK', and then more information about the machine itself.

But in eastern mech games/shows, it's all about the pilots. You play Armored Core, it's all about the pilots you're facing. The ACs get little more mention than their weight class and loadout- you fight Noblesse Oblige, you're worrying about him, not the pilot. Evangelion, too(though those could be arguable as mechs for the sake of it we'll ignore that), is focused on the pilots and their struggle rather than the Evas, since they all look practically the same. I have a Mad Cat III model here, and I can't tell you shit about Mason Dunne, but I can tell you plenty about the bitch Asuka or Joshua O'Brien.

knowing all that though as a pilot of planes myself i prefer western


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4uLTLSR2lY

also anyone who likes armored core (especially 4+4a) should watch this

 

[Bad^Hat]

Not huge on either, but I have a soft spot for certain eastern designs, entirely because of how outlandish they are.

Also Front Mission.

 

[Raziaar]

In my mind the two are not really comparable. That's not to say you can't prefer one over the other, but either one embodies an entirely different symbology, and philosophy.

The western mech is, as you say, a machine, a walking tank. It is a tactical piece of military hardware, and is only holds significance based on what it can do on the battlefield.

The eastern mech is more symbolic in its role. Instead of a military weapon the eastern mech embodies the spiritual strength of the pilots. The battles between eastern mechs often represent internal struggles or personal conflict between the two pilots. The mech is literally an extension of the pilots mind. This approach falls closely in line with he eastern concept of the warrior.

Edit: This Extra Credits video explains the difference between the way western and eastern cultures view weapons.

[video]http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/3261-The-Myth-of-the-Gun[/video]

The armored core pictures I think draw a nice middle ground between the two styles. I do like both styles as long as they are well done.

Argh but I'm talking about Aesthetics dammit, the two can be entirely comparable! And in my opinion the aesthetics of the eastern mecha are lame!

 

[Viperidae]

Western aesthetics, but god damn if Escaflowne wasn't a neat idea.

 

[Raziaar]

Why are all Japanese robots piloted by children?

 

[Ennui]

Mechwarrior/Battletech > Gundam or Evangelion or any of that weeaboo crap

 

[Viperidae]

Why are all Japanese robots piloted by children?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shōnen_manga

 

[Maestro]

Scenes like this are what make BattleTech better, in Gundam it seems like they can punch and kick and high-kick all they want without being damaged more than a kick delivered by a human to a human. In this, you can see a massive Warhawk (undoubtedly one of the premier sniper units) getting its face caved in by an Atlas' battle fist. In Eastern Mecha, the sniper drops his gun and dukes it out, and something about that excessive stylization of combat bugs me.

As well, the aforementioned "tanks vs. martial arts" is a factor, I prefer the lumbering, Napoleonic battlefield domination of BattleMechs over Gundam one-on-one martial battles.

To be fair, though, the original BattleTech stole multiple designs from Macross/Robotech (the unseen Warhammer, Shadow Hawk, and Marauder being foremost in my mind).

 

[lord_raken]

Argh but I'm talking about Aesthetics dammit, the two can be entirely comparable! And in my opinion the aesthetics of the eastern mecha are lame!

Not lame different. If you prefer the more tank like aesthetic that's fine, but the eastern mechs are not trying to be tanks, so judging them buy the same aesthetic scale is kinda silly.

Besides, the aesthetics are undoubtably tied to the philosophy of either mech style.

They are trying to capture the essence of the spiritual warrior. Each machine is as unique as the pilot. The power the wielded was supposed to represent the spiritual strength of the pilot as well. The aesthetic of the eastern mech represents this.

 

[Raziaar]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shōnen_manga

Much of our cartoon shit in the United States is marketed to Children too, but a huge number of the shows feature adult characters as the pro and antagonists.

 

[Krynn72]

Not lame different. If you prefer the more tank like aesthetic that's fine, but the eastern mechs are not trying to be tanks, so judging them buy the same aesthetic scale is kinda silly.

You can compare anything when regarding personal preference. I don't like metal music, but I like folk music. Saying so isn't silly just because they're not the same music, it makes sense since they're both music. Whether you want to call one armor and one tank doesn't change them from being mechs, so any judgment of aesthetic is perfectly fine.

Also, eastern designs ARE lame. For example, that ****er you just posted has pink shoes. Try and tell me that's not lame.

 

[Raziaar]

Not lame different. If you prefer the more tank like aesthetic that's fine, but the eastern mechs are not trying to be tanks, so judging them buy the same aesthetic scale is kinda silly.

Besides, the aesthetics are undoubtably tied to the philosophy of either mech style.

They are trying to capture the essence of the spiritual warrior. Each machine is as unique as the pilot. The power the wielded was supposed to represent the spiritual strength of the pilot as well. The aesthetic of the eastern mech represents this.

I'm not judging them on the same aesthetic scale thus holding them to my own standard of western design. If I judge the mecha completely separately from anything to do with mechs... I just don't like the aesthetics. That's me, my opinion of course... I just think they look retarded and the designs atrocious. Just like I think transformers look retarded. Though I don't want to make too many enemies by saying that.

To me they're just... let's see how many layers of harsh angles we can slap onto this thing and still look humanoid! Much like the transformers movies... the designs are so ridiculously complex and noisy it's just absurd. I'm not saying those anime mecha are approaching that level of noise, but for me it's along the same lines.

 

[Uriel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-X3GD0UnBCk&feature=related

 

[BabyHeadCrab]

<terran

Just keep this thread in mind when the RL Thors start roflstomping the world.

 

[lord_raken]

You can compare anything when regarding personal preference. I don't like metal music, but I like folk music. Saying so isn't silly just because they're not the same music, it makes sense since they're both music. Whether you want to call one armor and one tank doesn't change them from being mechs, so any judgment of aesthetic is perfectly fine.

Also, eastern designs ARE lame. For example, that ****er you just posted has pink shoes. Try and tell me that's not lame.

Two aesthetic styles should not be judged the same because they each use different elements to create the aesthetic. It be like saying a tank was an awful sports car, or vice-versa. However, you can have a preference for one style or the other, and that's fine. Raz makes that clear in his post I've quoted below.

Besides, they aren't pink, they are read, if you knew anything about them you would know that that picture is much lighter in color than the actual mech.

I'm not judging them on the same aesthetic scale thus holding them to my own standard of western design. If I judge the mecha completely separately from anything to do with mechs... I just don't like the aesthetics. That's me, my opinion of course... I just think they look retarded and the designs atrocious. Just like I think transformers look retarded. Though I don't want to make too many enemies by saying that.

To me they're just... let's see how many layers of harsh angles we can slap onto this thing and still look humanoid! Much like the transformers movies... the designs are so ridiculously complex and noisy it's just absurd. I'm not saying those anime mecha are approaching that level of noise, but for me it's along the same lines.

And that is a perfectly legitimate opinion. I am curious though. Is you issue with he design because they try to make a battle mech look human (a logically impractical design for many reasons, but in the Gundam universe works) or that you don't like they way they made a humanoid mech?

I actually like both styles for different reasons. I like the no nonsense, military hardware look of western mechs. There is somthing increadably badass about a lumbering battle mech decked out in all sorts of big guns. I like being able to identify the servos and reactive armor platting. I also like the symbolic aesthetic of the eastern mech meant to invoke images of the ancient samurai, and thoughts about the spiritual and personal conflict of the warrior. Both designs exuded a very different type of power and awesome. One is cold passionless steel that will rain death upon the battle field, and the other is an extension of the pilots spirits as they fight to understand and reform the world for the better while seeking to find their own peach of mind amongst the chaos of war.

And as a side note: If you faced the two off against one another, there is no doubt that the eastern mechs would win. The power wielded by , for instance, gundams would decimate any western mech force. In fact if any of you have watch Gundam 00 you can watch obviously western inspired mech designs have their ass handed to them by Gundams. But the two worlds opperate under very different rules so such comparisons are mostly meaningless.

 

[Raziaar]

Well... I'm not very FOND of humanoid mechs... even in the mechwarrior/battletech universe. A lot of them are just basically humans with guns... fists and all and that kind of bugs me. The only time it doesn't completely bug me is when you can tell they're designed to appear humanoid but they don't really walk around with the dexterity of a humanoid, much like the Atlas. Though I do still think the Atlas is a ****ing ugly monstrosity.

I prefer the ones that are more squat and chicken like myself... lumbering chicken legged turtles flinging missiles and firing artillery.

But really the thing about the japanese mechs I don't care for is their usage of shapes. I'm not an artist and I couldn't tell you in precise terms, but they really just rub me the wrong way and grate on my nerves every time I see them. It's weird I know, but they're ****ing ugly and they need to be demolished and buried.

I've always been a fan of conventionally "ugly" designs. My favorite airplane is the Stuka... which people regard as ugly and blocky. I also love the Warthog which people also generally regard as ugly. I don't know what it is that made me like that aesthetic, which transfers over to the western style mechs quite well.

 

[Wanted Bob]

video

I see your intro and raise you this one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=at9hxU864Fg

Anyways, I much prefer Western mech designs to Eastern mech designs primarily due to the fact that Westerns actually act like machines, whereas Eastern mechs behave and react far too much like humans. Code Geass sorta had an interesting combination of the two at the very start of the series, but eventually got flat out ridiculous.

 

[Raziaar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orhOvbfyyJw&feature=related

 

[Ennui]

I was just about to post that Raz. Haven't seen shit about the new MW game since that trailer came out though... but if that is actually ingame footage like they claim then I want it OH SO BAD

also remember that MW4 and its expansions are FREE FREE FREEEEEE although you have to use mektek which is shit

 

[Wanted Bob]

Totally agreed Ennui. I want another MW game so badly.

 

[morgs]

Western for sure, they're so beastly.

 

[Higlac]

Western mechs because I just finished watching Evangelion for the first time today and I can't deal with any more angsty bullshit.

Also Mechwarrior, **** yeah.

 

[lord_raken]

Well... I'm not very FOND of humanoid mechs... even in the mechwarrior/battletech universe. A lot of them are just basically humans with guns... fists and all and that kind of bugs me. The only time it doesn't completely bug me is when you can tell they're designed to appear humanoid but they don't really walk around with the dexterity of a humanoid, much like the Atlas. Though I do still think the Atlas is a ****ing ugly monstrosity.

I prefer the ones that are more squat and chicken like myself... lumbering chicken legged turtles flinging missiles and firing artillery.

But really the thing about the japanese mechs I don't care for is their usage of shapes. I'm not an artist and I couldn't tell you in precise terms, but they really just rub me the wrong way and grate on my nerves every time I see them. It's weird I know, but they're ****ing ugly and they need to be demolished and buried.

I've always been a fan of conventionally "ugly" designs. My favorite airplane is the Stuka... which people regard as ugly and blocky. I also love the Warthog which people also generally regard as ugly. I don't know what it is that made me like that aesthetic, which transfers over to the western style mechs quite well.

I can understand that. While I like the Gundam aesthetic, there have been some gundams that cause me the recoil.

(like this one)

There is nothing in this design that holds any appeal to me.

But I do like this design

I guess I also like the gundam series because of the maturity of its content. I've watched Gundam Seed(Destiny) and Gundam 00, and between them they addressed questions about the futile cycle of escalating war, the ambiguity of right and wrong in war, the fact that good and evil people often fight on both sides, the choice of having a safe and ordered life or having one where you were free, how the rest of the world has written off the middle east and cut them out of world dialogue.

Even the names of the gundams have significance. In Gundam Seed, the protagonist Kira eventually pilots a Gundam called the Freedom (the Strike Freedom is pictured above). This name is significant because throughout the series Kira is constantly forced to fight despite him wishing only to live a FREE life. The Freedom Gundam represent his fight to create a world where he, and everyone else, is able to live a life of their own free will. Athrun in the same series pilots the Justice. This name signifies Athrun's motivation for fighting as a powerful sense of right and wrong. He starts the series convinced that his side, is fighting against an enemy that deserves retribution, but soon he discovers that the commander of his side (his own father) is driven by the same hatred and fear that caused the other side to attack them. from then on Athrun fights to eliminate men like his father and to create a just world where evil is not allowed to thrive.

I know we are a long way from aesthetics, but I wanted to let you know that there was more behind my preference for eastern style mechs than my personal taste in aesthetics.

 

[Bad^Hat]

Much of our cartoon shit in the United States is marketed to Children too, but a huge number of the shows feature adult characters as the pro and antagonists.

And how many of them feature mechs. :v

 

[Krynn72]

And how many of them feature mechs. :v

 

[Darkside55]

I have driven a Cougar through Frostbite, alpha-striking my enemies' exposed weakpoints with deadly precision as I've zipped around the map. My Core has unleashed a hail of hundreds of missiles upon Line Ark. I have ripped apart Zeon forces with my GRC-80's beam saber.

You know what? I ****ing love mechs. All mechs. Big, blocky mechs with weapons for arms. Humanoid mechs with giant thrusters and laser swords. Mechs that are thunderous and plodding, mechs that transform into lithe vehicle forms. Look at you people, taking sides. Can you say you truly love giant robots?! Eastern or Western, humanoid or angular, sleek or cobbled together, piloted by hardened soldiers or psychic highschoolers; THESE ARE GIANT ROBOTS! They're big! They're mechanical! They smash things! They fire realistic ordinance or create giant, unrealistic melee weaponry out of thin air! Some can only use jump jets for a limited boost, others take to the sky with energy trails that resemble the wings of angels! What is wrong with you people...mankind...all humankind loves giant robots...why do you need to prefer one design to another? Giant robots are ALL ****ing amazing!

 

[Remus]

I prefer the western mechs: mechwarrior, C&C, Supreme Commander etc.

However, humanoid giant robots can be cool, it just depends on the design. Example: The Iron Giant.

Also I'm not sure, but do the the mechanical suits from Iron Man classify as mechs? Or exoskeletons?

 

[Ennui]

I have driven a Cougar through Frostbite, alpha-striking my enemies' exposed weakpoints with deadly precision as I've zipped around the map. My Core has unleashed a hail of hundreds of missiles upon Line Ark. I have ripped apart Zeon forces with my GRC-80's beam saber.

You know what? I fucking love mechs. All mechs. Big, blocky mechs with weapons for arms. Humanoid mechs with giant thrusters and laser swords. Mechs that are thunderous and plodding, mechs that transform into lithe vehicle forms. Look at you people, taking sides. Can you say you truly love giant robots?! Eastern or Western, humanoid or angular, sleek or cobbled together, piloted by hardened soldiers or psychic highschoolers; THESE ARE GIANT ROBOTS! They're big! They're mechanical! They smash things! They fire realistic ordinance or create giant, unrealistic melee weaponry out of thin air! Some can only use jump jets for a limited boost, others take to the sky with energy trails that resemble the wings of angels! What is wrong with you people...mankind...all humankind loves giant robots...why do you need to prefer one design to another? Giant robots are ALL fucking amazing!

I agree with you so hard that I'm going to ignore your bypassing the swear filter... but nevertheless, having faggy anime protagonists pilot them is still way less awesome than badass Clan/IS pilots. In other words, Battletech storyline > Quatre Roberba Winner.

Also, I would be fine without a new MW game for a few years if they ever made Mech Commander 3. Also, 40k dreadnaughts are even more ****in' sweet. and Armored Core 2 is my favorite "no seriously it's totally cool check it out dude MUAHAHAHAHA" PS2 game to spring on random friends.

 

[GreatEmperor]

Mechs you have to pilot, like with a stick. Exoskeletons you just move your body and suit moves itself to match

Which makes them cooler and plausible, little kids boxing each other using buttons just doesnt seem doable

 

[Gargantou]

I like both!*Pansies out and doesn't take a side!*

Steel Battalion has some pretty nice designs in my opinion.