What's going to be Valve's next latest and greatest?

[Pi Mu Rho]

The thing with a CS2 is, if they take a similar approach that they did to TF2 and change a bunch of things, all of the competitive players and people who have been with it for forever are going to cry and start an internet riot.

Oh god, I hope so.

 

[Asknoone]

The thing with a CS2 is, if they take a similar approach that they did to TF2 and change a bunch of things, all of the competitive players and people who have been with it for forever are going to cry and start an internet riot.

Excellent.

 

[StardogChampion]

If you don't play the episodes, why would you even want to purchase HL3? You're going to miss a lot of story. A whole lot of story. And what's the Half-Life franchise without the story?

Yeah, because HL1's story was what everyone played the game for, wasn't it?

LOL, I find it highly amusing that you'd waste innumerable hours of your life clocking up 6000 posts on a game franchises fan site, then feign any interest in buying their latest products, out of misguided perception. In all seriousness if you don't have a passion for subject as a whole, isn't it perhaps about time to move on to something else completely :dozey:

Check the last time I posted in the HL2 section. HL1 was a far better game than HL2.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

StardogChampion: You do realize that you are missing out on HL3, right? Because the next full release (if there ever is one! Valve may just do episodic content for Half-Life here on out) will technically be HL4.

These are in no way expansion packs. Go on Steam and buy the Orange Box because you get Ep1 with it as well as all of the other games. You also get HL2 but I assume you already have that.

If there is a next big release of Half-Life in the same style as HL2, then don't expect it for at least like 3-5 years at least. They need to get Ep3 out, then possibly Ep4 if it's part of the major story arc (though it's done by a different company), and then they can work on HL4. Which you know Valve, will take a while. I don't know about you, but waiting that long without playing the games they are making in between is going to get boring. It's like you would be missing out on an entire season in your TV show. When you come back, there will be whole new characters, some missing, story has totally morphed, and it's just not going to be what you remember. Plus, you may miss some throw-backs they do with characters from the episodes.

I highly encourage you go play the episodes... now.

 

[giant384]

StardogChampion: You do realize that you are missing out on HL3, right? Because the next full release (if there ever is one! Valve may just do episodic content for Half-Life here on out) will technically be HL4.

These are in no way expansion packs. Go on Steam and buy the Orange Box because you get Ep1 with it as well as all of the other games. You also get HL2 but I assume you already have that.

If there is a next big release of Half-Life in the same style as HL2, then don't expect it for at least like 3-5 years at least. They need to get Ep3 out, then possibly Ep4 if it's part of the major story arc (though it's done by a different company), and then they can work on HL4. Which you know Valve, will take a while. I don't know about you, but waiting that long without playing the games they are making in between is going to get boring. It's like you would be missing out on an entire season in your TV show. When you come back, there will be whole new characters, some missing, story has totally morphed, and it's just not going to be what you remember. Plus, you may miss some throw-backs they do with characters from the episodes.

I highly encourage you go play the episodes... now.

dont make me bring up the hl3 argument again

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

Why? So you don't lose it again?

 

[Dalamari]

Yeah, because HL1's story was what everyone played the game for, wasn't it?

That's mostly the reason I got HL2....

 

[Asknoone]

dont make me bring up the hl3 argument again

Don't.

Half-life 2 pretty much walks all over HL1, and the subsequent Episodes have, as a whole, walked all over Half-life 2. As one of the few developers churning out something that's actually innovative in the FPS genre, I'd like to see them move into other kinds of games too. Third person, RTS etc.

 

[hot564231]

I remember in some interview that valve are pretty interested in doing a RPG kind of game.

 

[99.vikram]

I'm just not drawn to them. They just seem like expansion packs to me and I never really buy those, not even Blue Shift/Opposing Force when they first came out.

They're direct sequels, but whatever, it's your money...

Excellent.

Oh god, I hope so.

STFU. Seriously.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

StardogChampion: You do realize that you are missing out on HL3, right? Because the next full release (if there ever is one! Valve may just do episodic content for Half-Life here on out) will technically be HL4.

These are in no way expansion packs. Go on Steam and buy the Orange Box because you get Ep1 with it as well as all of the other games. You also get HL2 but I assume you already have that.

If there is a next big release of Half-Life in the same style as HL2, then don't expect it for at least like 3-5 years at least. They need to get Ep3 out, then possibly Ep4 if it's part of the major story arc (though it's done by a different company), and then they can work on HL4. Which you know Valve, will take a while. I don't know about you, but waiting that long without playing the games they are making in between is going to get boring. It's like you would be missing out on an entire season in your TV show. When you come back, there will be whole new characters, some missing, story has totally morphed, and it's just not going to be what you remember. Plus, you may miss some throw-backs they do with characters from the episodes.

I highly encourage you go play the episodes... now.

TBH the Source engine is becoming outdated, and I think they need to make a new engine eventually and don't tell me the "Oh but Source is extremely flexible" argument.

Half-life 2 pretty much walks all over HL1, and the subsequent Episodes have, as a whole, walked all over Half-life 2. As one of the few developers churning out something that's actually innovative in the FPS genre, I'd like to see them move into other kinds of games too. Third person, RTS etc.

Third person would kind of take away the immersion that you are Gordon Freeman, and a RTS... just isn't Half-Life. D:

But if it were a different game other than Half-Life, then I wouldn't mind at all.

 

[99.vikram]

TBH the Source engine is becoming outdated, and I think they need to make a new engine eventually and don't tell me the "Oh but Source is extremely flexible" argument.

Not happening any time soon. Valve have spent a lot of effort in keeping Source up to date (and IMO it paid off). They are not going to throw away a good game engine for no reason.

If you want Valve quality games then the Episodes are your only choice, the next big release probably won't be for another five years or so...but if you don't want more Half-Life, then it's your loss.

 

[Shakermaker]

Oh god, I hope so.

Same.

 

[Cole]

TBH the Source engine is becoming outdated, and I think they need to make a new engine eventually and don't tell me the "Oh but Source is extremely flexible" argument.

You seem to lack understanding what it ment by the "Source is extremely flexible" argument. I doubt Valve is going to make a new engine for quite some time. A highly anticipate that Source is going to go under major revisions in the upcoming future. Valve designed Source with an idea, that idea was modularity.
The engine that originally ran HL2 compared to the engine that originally ran Ep2 are very different. They are both called Source, but they are very different. Ep2 marked the start of Valves and dynamic shadows, by introducing dynamic shadows via the flashlight. When the hardware is right, Valve's gonna turn that into every single light source. Source has been modifiedto take advantage of multiple cores. They introduced HDR, soon motion blur and film grain. They've modified the physics engine for Ep2. Advanced the sound code in DOD: S.
Really the only thing Valve havn't changed about Source since HL2 is the map format. Which I could see them doing once Valve belives that most computers will be able to do big dynamically-shadowed maps.

So no, I highly doubt Valve will drop Source. Valve developed Source with the idea in mind that it wont have to start from scratch and design an entirely new engine. They wanted to design a modular engine that they could update slowly overtime to take advantage of new technologies when the average computer can run it.

 

[SpotEnemyBoats]

Not happening any time soon. Valve have spent a lot of effort in keeping Source up to date (and IMO it paid off). They are not going to throw away a good game engine for no reason.

If you want Valve quality games then the Episodes are your only choice, the next big release probably won't be for another five years or so...but if you don't want more Half-Life, then it's your loss.

No I'd still buy Half-Life games and for years to come. Episode 2 was absolutely brilliant and a masterpiece by Valve. That being said, they can't keep consistantly use Source a decade or 2 from now. It still looks very good, but some time down the road they should make a full Half-Life game.

I am a firm believer that it would be best if it were first - A monlythic release then 3 episode's, so that way everyone's happy.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

TBH the Source engine is becoming outdated, and I think they need to make a new engine eventually and don't tell me the "Oh but Source is extremely flexible" argument.

Every release they update the components. For the forseeable future they are not going to ever go "Okay, let's do a total engine re-write". Never, ever ever... For a long while.

NOBODY in the industry ever really says that or does that except when completely necessary.

Unreal Engine 3 is STILL using code that was written way back in the 90's for the original Unreal Engine.

Call of Duty 4 is STILL running the Quake3 engine (albeit heavily modified).

Due to the flexibility they will just upgrade whatever parts need updating. In the next major iteration of the Source Engine it's going to be more than likely even bigger advances in Multi-Core, and probably some DX10 work.

 

[CrazyHarij]

dx10 is a joke, dynamic shadows aint exactly revolutionary, the source engine is either getting outdated or keeping older computers in mind which isnt conductive for valves approach, the new effects in ep2 were fairly ugly tbh. theyre reusing too much.

 

[Cole]

No one said Dynamic Shadows were revoltuionarly. However, theres no point in completely adding them and getting rid of pre-calculated map shadows unless most of Valves market base and Valves expanding market has the hardware to run it. The only "effect" in Ep2 they added would be cinematic physics and flashlight-dynamic lighting. I don't see how you could have overused flashlight-dynamic lighting or cinematic physics.

Of course Valve is keeping older computers in mind. Valve want to be attractive to there current market base and there expanding market base. I should be able to go out and buy a $500 - $700 computer, pick up the orange box and play every game in it smoothly. Hell I can't even do that with Guitar Hero 3 for the PC! Crysis? Hell No.

However to say Valve is falling behind is a joke. When is UE4 gonna come out? Probably around the next generation of consoles. Valve will be caught up with UE3 and Crysis when the hardware is ready, which will probably be around there next HL game. UE3 and Crysis push current gen hardware to there knees and leaves the entry-market pretty much non-existant. Valve thinks different and $$ wise, i'd imagine its a hell of a lot better. The graphics look great and are playable, and the gameplay...what counts is amazing.

Valve needs to make a Wii game already.

 

[Darkside55]

Yeah, because HL1's story was what everyone played the game for, wasn't it?

Yes, actually, it was. If you'd rather just play something mindless where story is thrown out the window and you're just given things to shoot, go play Serious Sam.

Really bro I don't know if you thought anyone was going to back up your argument that "nobody played Half-Life for the story," but if you did...you're out of touch, friend. There IS a reason that critics and gamers laud Half-Life as being a game that brought story into the FPS forefront.

Check the last time I posted in the HL2 section. HL1 was a far better game than HL2.

Well I'd actually agree with you there.

 

[99.vikram]

I played HL1 for the story too (back in the day).

Well I'd actually agree with you there.

Ah, the joy of misplaced nostalgia!

 

[Darkside55]

It's not nostalgia glasses. I play Half-Life 1 frequently...I'd rather play HL1 than HL2, or any of the episodes. I'd rather watch those, if that makes any sense. I enjoy PLAYING the first game...the other games I only play because I want to see where the story goes, and watch/listen to all the scenes and dialogue.

 

[Iced_Eagle]

Check the last time I posted in the HL2 section. HL1 was a far better game than HL2.

Odd you would say that.

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/simpleratings.asp?rankings=y

Of all of the games ever rated, The Orange Box holds the 5th and 6th highest rated and Half-Life 2 is the 10th highest rated.

Half-Life 1 is the 28th.

A LOT of people think differently, and I totally agree HL2 is a better game.


CrazyHarij: Why do you say DX10 is a joke? It's a freakin' API for gods sake! Unless you code and utilize it, I don't think you can really say it's a joke. You can say nobody uses it really yet, which is totally true, but just bashing the API is dumb. People think that API's magically give them Dynamic Shadows HDR and all sorts of other buzz-words. No, they don't. They make it easier and more efficient. DX10 is a bigger change from DX9 then DX9 was to DX8. Developers are slightly reluctant to budge forward since there isn't too much benefit (~8% of gamers have Vista + DX10 card and thus are DX10 capable). All of the consoles use DX9, so why have even MORE effort and testing?

Once the next Xbox comes around, then expect DX10 games to come out in even more force since I would bet that Microsoft is going to have a DX10 capable chip inside of that next console. Since developers would already be developing for DX10 games for the console, it would be a helluva lot easier porting to the PC since Xbox and PC are really close in terms of the API's they're using. Not a whole lot of code you need to switch around.

 

[Asknoone]

In terms of gameplay HL1 has been vastly out-stripped by the likes of HL2 and its Episodes; there are whole chapters in the first game that suck the big one. They are far better games in almost every aspect.

Third person would kind of take away the immersion that you are Gordon Freeman, and a RTS... just isn't Half-Life. D:

That's not what I was saying at all.

 

[Kadayi]

HL1 was a far better game than HL2.

That's an interesting claim, perhaps you can elaborate as to why you think so. Maybe roll out some Vis on Vis comparisons in terms of feature sets and provide a critical breakdown, as to why HL1 is better than HL2. I want some tangible examples as to why it's better, not merely the claim that it is.

 

[Naph]

THE EPISODES ARENT HL3!!! go damn i hate it when people say that. the games are hl2:ep1,ep2 etc......does that seem like hl3 to you?

also counterstrike 2 would be ridiculous. though the only thing that would really change is the weapon choice and change to a modern scenario to todays standards.

QFTFT

Makes me cry!

 

[Lucid]

Valve should venture into the realm of RPGs, since story-telling is one of their strong points.

 

[soulslicer]

valve should really make some epic game about the Seven Hour War, with a gameplay style similar to the likes of CoD4 or R:FOM

 

[Lucid]

No, imo, they should take a break from the HL universe and create something new.

 

[Darkside55]

In terms of gameplay HL1 has been vastly out-stripped by the likes of HL2 and its Episodes; there are whole chapters in the first game that suck the big one. They are far better games in almost every aspect.

While HL1 has its share of bad chapters, so does HL2. Even certain chapters in the episodes...I would not, for example, wish to play Lowlife anymore than I would want to play Route Kanal, or Residue Processing.

But even at the height of good gameplay chapters in Half-Life 2 and its episodes--and mark, GAMEPLAY--even their best is only on par with Half-Life's standard. I mean, if you were to ask me what my favorite level in HL2 Episode One is, I'd say the citadel; that's probably my favorite HL2 level period across the three games thus far, but I'd still rather play Lambda Core.

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

I'd love valve to do another genre. I also love it to be in the HL Universe. The thing is, HL isn't a single genre. It can't be called just an FPS. Its far surpiour. They have puzzle elements. I'd love to see some other elements in there.

 

[Cole]

All of the consoles use DX9, so why have even MORE effort and testing?

Actually only the Xbox 360 does. Ps3, Wii, Ps2, Gamecube, Ps1(i think), and N64(i think) all use customized variants of Open Gl.

 

[Darkside55]

Lowlife was awesome IMO.
I can't think of an awful chapter in Hl2 onwards. The tunnels in EpiTwo are the worst I can think of, and they aren't terrible.
The thing is, "on a rail", "residue processings" and "forget about freeman" were all awful IMO. Seriously, they were just terrible. And they were all from HL1.
So basically HL1<HL2<Episodes.

You really want me to go through a list of awful chapters in HL2 onward? I mean I guess it's all a matter of opinion, but:

Route Kanal
Follow Freeman
Lowlife

Episode 2 was actually without any bad chapters. But I'm also being nice, and only including the chapters I found absolutely ABYSMAL...considering that I could seriously throw Water Hazard, We Don't Go to Ravenholm, Highway 17, Entanglement, and Anticitizen One in the list of, "I could play these again, but I'd rather not."

Seriously, I'd rather not. I have absolutely no interest in riding the boat for another ten hours, stopping and starting to pick up supplies or open gates; Ravenholm wasn't scary and was an excercise in patience trying to find your way around (although the end was nice); Highway 17 is Water Hazard with a car; Entanglement...god I hate Entanglement...I should just put Entanglement up on the actual list. F*ck that basement and those turrets. Anticitizen One...eh, nothing really against it, just rather wouldn't play it.

In contrast to HL1, where if I start playing it, I'm gonna go through the whole thing and not grudge any of the chapters enough to stop playing, which is more than I can say about HL2. HL2's more like, "Load up X chapter, watch the story, look around for interesting things to speculate on, turn it off."

 

[Asknoone]

But even at the height of good gameplay chapters in Half-Life 2 and its episodes--and mark, GAMEPLAY--even their best is only on par with Half-Life's standard.

I found Half-life 2 at its worst on par with Half-life's 'average'. I just find playing through Half-life 1 a boring experience, when I could go pick up its sequel and play far better gameplay there. You could grab pretty much every Xen chapter - four(?) whole chapters - and highlight some very flawed, very poorly constructed game design. I couldn't do that with HL2 or the episodes (that's not to say they haven't their fair share of low points).

 

[kriztov]

Meh, I think rather than a Portal2, they might just release more portal maps. Since it allows for that. I can see portal map packs emerging soon.

As for their next BIG thing. I'd say it would be away from the HL universe. Not to say the the HL universe is outplayed, but it has the potential to become outplayed. I'd rather that Valve finish the HL saga on a high note, and not make sequel after sequel.

 

[StardogChampion]

Odd you would say that.

http://www.gamerankings.com/itemrankings/simpleratings.asp?rankings=y

Of all of the games ever rated, The Orange Box holds the 5th and 6th highest rated and Half-Life 2 is the 10th highest rated.

Half-Life 1 is the 28th.

A LOT of people think differently, and I totally agree HL2 is a better game.

A LOT of people also voted for George W Bush. The winner of a popularity contest isn't an accurate indicator of who's actually the best. Bioshock is also ahead of HL1 on Metacritic which shows how much of a joke those scores are. Oh, and they're both behind Out of the Park Baseball 2007.

Yes, actually, it was. If you'd rather just play something mindless where story is thrown out the window and you're just given things to shoot, go play Serious Sam.

I don't think so.

People played HL1 because it was different to every other FPS around at that time. The amazing tram ride and RP section at the start, the experiment where you could push the specimen into the beam. Most people probably hadn't played anything like that before. I'd imagine the "story" went over most people's heads soon after that. They knew the military was coming in to do a clean-up job and that was that. I'm guessing a lot of us were probably early teens and weren't focusing too hard on the story either.

HL1 was an influence on future games. I don't think HL2 is.

You seem to lack understanding what it ment by the "Source is extremely flexible" argument. I doubt Valve is going to make a new engine for quite some time. A highly anticipate that Source is going to go under major revisions in the upcoming future. Valve designed Source with an idea, that idea was modularity.

The problem is that it's still stuck in the BSP world. You still see mappers making light switches out of BSP blocks. You can understand why, because it's such a pain to get a model into the engine that they can't be bothered.

That's an interesting claim, perhaps you can elaborate as to why you think so. Maybe roll out some Vis on Vis comparisons in terms of feature sets and provide a critical breakdown, as to why HL1 is better than HL2. I want some tangible examples as to why it's better, not merely the claim that it is.

Maybe I will, yet I could say the same to you lot about HL2, taking into account the years they were made in of course.

 

[CrazyHarij]

i thought episode 3 was the conclusion to the hl story? thats what gabe says in the ep2 developer commentary, right at the start of the game. i would like to see valve take on something completely different, like an rts or a soccer game.

 

[Darkside55]

I don't think so.

People played HL1 because it was different to every other FPS around at that time. The amazing tram ride and RP section at the start, the experiment where you could push the specimen into the beam. Most people probably hadn't played anything like that before. I'd imagine the "story" went over most people's heads soon after that. They knew the military was coming in to do a clean-up job and that was that. I'm guessing a lot of us were probably early teens and weren't focusing too hard on the story either.

HL1 was an influence on future games. I don't think HL2 is.

That's story. What you just referenced is story. And I think you're vastly underestimating the ability of a teenage mind to grasp a story beyond, "Military cleanup" and "shoot aliens."

I was sixteen when I first played Half-Life. I got it. I got it in spades, even the subtext. That's the whole reason I've stuck with it and geeked out on it for so long...otherwise, y'know, I wouldn't have.

But the point becomes, if YOU don't care about the story, why bother even playing the game? Why not pick up something else? Because Half-Life is becoming more story-oriented...they're packing more exposition into the episodes than they ever have before. And if the trend continues you're going to have an FPS that's oozing plot and drama, so by the time Half-Life 3 rolls around, if ever...

Seriously they aren't sure if they're going to continue an episodic model or go back to the old massive project model. If they choose the former, what're you going to do then? Never buy anymore Half-Life games?

You could grab pretty much every Xen chapter - four(?) whole chapters - and highlight some very flawed, very poorly constructed game design. I couldn't do that with HL2 or the episodes (that's not to say they haven't their fair share of low points).

...

...

Don't...say bad things...about Xen...ever. You know better.

You KNOW better.

i thought episode 3 was the conclusion to the hl story? thats what gabe says in the ep2 developer commentary, right at the start of the game. i would like to see valve take on something completely different, like an rts or a soccer game.

It's the conclusion to the arc that was Half-Life and Half-Life 2. Not the end of the HL story, which will go on.

 

[BigBoss7556]

Umm Darkside, that first quote there is from Stardog Champion, not Samon .

 

[Darkside55]

Buh? I guess Samon edited whatever I screwed up so I didn't see it. Did I put his name in the first quote? My bad. I often work backwards and end up typing out the names of people I'm quoting rather than just using the multiquote function; I was probably too busy thinking of Samon's reply to check the mistake. Blinded with rage, and all that.

I knew it was Stardog though. Just typed the wrong name in.

 

[Kadayi]

Maybe I will, yet I could say the same to you lot about HL2, taking into account the years they were made in of course.

So basically you're laming out on the challenge. Seriously stick to lurking instead of posting if you're not prepared to do more than emptily posture when faced with an argument. :dozey:

Also I'm not asking for a comparison of games in their time (which is frankly irrelevant). I'm asking for a direct comparison of game vs game, old Vs new. What makes HL1 so much 'better' than HL2? What secret ingredient(s) did Valve omit from the sequel that makes the original so much better? How does the inclusion of an array of new features and game play opportunities in the sequel make it worse than it's predecessor?

Also I'm not interested in how influential the games are. HL significantly raised the bar in terms of peoples expectations of how FPS games should be, and definitely had an influence that is visible (CoD4 is a good example, some parts in that bear the mark), but with HL2 onwards Valve are moving the HL franchise into an FPS space that there simply aren't any other developers really operating in at present. No one else is out there remotely matching them in terms of story driven FPS experiences. The rest of the development community are stuck in a run & gun hangover they can't seem to get over yet.