Will HDR (DX9 FX) be in the final game?

Xcellere

Xcellere

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I'm just hoping that its not just a tech demo that was used to show off the engine's potential. I'm hoping all the DX9 effects that we've been shown will be in the final cut. Anyone know?
 
Everyone hopes they are but the latest screens don't show it. We will just have to wait for E3. Looking at some older shots the latest screens really don't seem to have the same level of textural detail and the shaders don't appear to be on the same level of quality.

Me thinks it's part of Doug's and Gabes little PR plan. There trying to make us think this games going to just be about gameplay, physics and AI, then when we have got used to that idea, suprise us with stunning graphics too.... or not.
 
Well, DirectX 9 efffects are one of the game's major selling points... at least, it is to people with newer graphics cards...
 
Yes, everyone knows that the game is heavily based in DX9.... if they got rid of this.... well they are complete and total ****tards.... ****. TARDS.
 
DX9 definitly, HDR will probbally be there, switch-on-able i mean, it may not be used completely, or maybe it will! i dunno, just have to wait and see, hopefully the E3 vids will show it off.
 
HDR WILL be there, unless they decide to just throw away the game they have been making, and create PacMan 2004...
 
I thought the new shot with the baton-wielding combines had it on.
 
Be a bit stupid of them to put it in the video we've seen of it, then remove it from the final game.
 
I sure hope nVidia enables the correct pixelshading for the game .. cuz it's the same thing with Far Cry :/
 
Abom said:
Be a bit stupid of them to put it in the video we've seen of it, then remove it from the final game.
Click to expand...


One would think so, but many people are making the argument that Valve wanted to show off more of the capabilities of the engine, as Valve is not only selling a game, but an engine as well.
 
I've heard that HDR is even in the leak, so I guess it will be in the final game...
 
Valve would not make a cutting edge game engine and not use its best technology on its flagship product! What better way to advertise the engine then use it on the Best Game Ever™?!
 
flupke said:
What's HDR actually?
Click to expand...

Basically, it's glare. Like when you stay in a dark room, and then suddenly step out and look at the sun. It makes things look brighter than they should be, temporarily.
 
HDR isn't glare or bloom

glare and bloom is glare and bloom

HDR is high dynamic range.

RGB values go up to a maximum of R255 G255 B255

so in RGB terms pure white is pure white, which looks fine most of the time, but a pure white painted wall is not as bright as a pure white light bulb or the bright sky. Though in RGB terms its the same color.

HDR simply extends the range of values allowed. So you'd have the sky and a white wall the same pure white value, only the sky would be further up the range.

Your monitor can't see this, neither can a Television set. Your eyes can though obviously. So thats where glare's and blooms come in, they can be setup to kick in after a certain HDR value is reached. Which is why you can then have a nice glare on a bright light bulb, but not a glare on the same "color" wall.

And the reason the monitors and TV's aren't HDR capable is because it would a) likely burn out in seconds if you viewed an accurate HDR image of the sun for example. and b) your retina's would also burn away, just like they would if you stared at the sun

and thats why you can look directly at a photo or an image on the screen of the sun and not directly at the real thing.
 
I always squint when looking at HDR rendered lights in games, it tricks my brain pretty well...
 
The glare and bloom effects have been in games for over a year. They certainly are not real HDR.
 
No HDR is a way of making something seem bright white. For instance, imagine a white wall. It is white, but it is not HDR. Now imagine a light bulb. The light coming from it is also white, but it is a much more intense white. Watch the HDR video for an example of it.

The shine on the floor, isn't that just a specular highlight (or something)?
 
Perfect Dark for N64 did super-cheap HDR fake lights with sprites. They were annoying as hell, but looked great, especially considering the platform.
 
It's a bit more complicated than that, though, isn't it? I thought it was more about being able to balance the color ranges so that you can get very bright colors and very dark colors in the same scene without them looking washed out and dull because normally they all have to sit in the same bit space. Glare effects (like in Perfect dark) and lens flares aren't themselves HDR: HDR is what makes them actually look realistic, because the color balances are correct.

If you have a later gen ATI card, try the "rendering with natural light" program here:
http://mirror.ati.com/developer/demos/r9700.html

The Dx9 Bink video look really great: it's very realistic, and seems to work naturally whenever bright areas mix with darkened areas, instead of some goofy pre-set effect like a light glare.

Yeah, the stuff on the floor is just specularity.
 
Apos said:
It's a bit more complicated than that, though, isn't it?
Click to expand...

No not really, not as far as the effect used in Source is concerned anyway. Once you understand the bright end of the scale you can begin to understand how it works the other dark end of the scale. But in this case its a thread confusing bloom and glare effects with HDR. So bringing in the darker ranges will just confuse matters further.

Besides, black is black, and its much rarer to require many extra ranges of black than it is bright area's. Black doesn't reflect, nor does it cast any light. So its uses are limited. There is an absolute black and an absolute white point, but then your getting into the whole broadcast area and that'll just confuse things even more.

But your right in something else you mentioned, about the effect appearing only when the surrounding area was darker. I've long since deleted the DX9 demo but yeah I think it did do that to some extent. Which is likely just some instructions setout to measure the overall brightness on the screen at a given time. If the average is below a certain value then all pixels above a certain value have a bloom/glare effect added, the amount of which is then likely dependant on how far beyond that value the point is and what values surrounding area is. To vary the effect aswell as perhaps color it, though I don't remember if there was any coloring of the glare going on in the DX9 vid. But then the glare thing isn't HDR so thats probably dealt with by some other code anyway.

Oh I forgot to add earlier on about the reflections too, HD ranged images effect reflections and look way more realistic. I'm pretty sure Source will be able to do this, those demo's you linked to can, and its been possible for many years now in pre-rendered.
 
Fenric said:
Oh I forgot to add earlier on about the reflections too, HD ranged images effect reflections and look way more realistic. I'm pretty sure Source will be able to do this, those demo's you linked to can, and its been possible for many years now in pre-rendered.
Click to expand...

It showed reflections on a sphere with a water material in the HDR demo.

BTW, does Source use HDRI for skyboxes (and if so, in what format? .tga which they use for textures is LDR isn't it?)?
 
PvtRyan said:
It showed reflections on a sphere with a water material in the HDR demo.

BTW, does Source use HDRI for skyboxes (and if so, in what format? .tga which they use for textures is LDR isn't it?)?
Click to expand...
http://positron.cs.berkeley.edu/~gwlarson/pixformat/

they might have some settings saved to tell it that image is meant for HDR when you convert the image to the format source uses or something?

When I use HDRI's I just convert it to a format that can detect it or fake it.


There's also this one http://www.openexr.com/
 
HDR: Darkens things to make brights seem brighter. Darkens things to make lights seem lighter. That's about it.

The perfect dark reference was just a random OT comment. HDR is a rather new concept.
 
FictiousWill said:
HDR: Darkens things to make brights seem brighter. Darkens things to make lights seem lighter. That's about it.

The perfect dark reference was just a random OT comment. HDR is a rather new concept.
Click to expand...
Also dims lights/lit areas so you can see the dark areas.
 
HDR is High Dynamic Range...it's useful for many things...you mainly see it as glares and such, but it also comes into play for reflection and refraction, such as looking though a glass sphere, etc.
 
*qckbeam looks at Fenrics explanatory post

*qckbeam looks at the four posts below it

Fenric said all that needs to be said about HDR, no need to repeat it over and over....read the posts above your own guys :p
 
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