WTF is wrong with Dr. Breen?

Schall

Schall

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We can all admit Dr. Breen is definitely has something wrong with him physiologically? What was his motivation? Enslave the human race? Why? He had to have some kind of mental disorder. Alright, share you opinions now!
 
I think he saw letting the Combine take over the Earth as the only way for saving Earth. Plus, I think he thought that in order for the human race to achieve immortality & some of the other bs he was spouting, he thought that humans needed the Combine for that & that some sacrifices were necessary ("Only the Universal Union, which some minds call the Combine, can carry us there.") Basically for Breen, the ends justify the means irregardless of who gets hurt (but he can't risk himself, of course).
 
Okay, first of all:

Did you even play the game?
 
Schall said:
We can all admit Dr. Breen is definitely has something wrong with him >>>>>>>physiologically?<<<<<<< What was his motivation? Enslave the human race? Why? He had to have some kind of mental disorder. Alright, share you opinions now!
Click to expand...

wth... "Psychologically"
 
Btw , when a red line appears below the word that you were typing , that means you made a typo.
 
I think he did spell the word right, it's just that it's the exact opposite of what he meant.
 
There was nothing "physiologically" wrong with Breen.

He was power hungry and selfish. Very selfish. He saw an opportunity to save his skin and put himself in a nice powerful position at the cost of the wellbeing of the rest of the human race and he took it. Maybe there was some part of him which actually believed the spiel about the Universal Union being a positive step in the evolution of humans ... but I don't buy it. He knew that wasn't true, and he knew the Combine's ultimate plans for humanity. The propaganda ("Breencasts") were probably more to do with his own egotism and making sure there was a constant demoralising force hanging over the population.
 
Dr. Breen surrendered humanity because he didn't want to see mankind completely wiped out. He is simply of the belief that if the Combine wanted us all dead, we would be. He is saving and immortalising what small fraction of humanity he can.
 
Breen is more than a puppet leader.

He's a man standing behind his actions. He doesn't see Combine as a threat, but instead: a hope for humanity. He really believes in Combine's agenda. Another theory suggests he does not respect them, and simply after their knowledge. Perhaps he wants to create his own utopia, who knows. At the end, it's a war between big minds.
 
Typo... sorry? If you really want to obsess over a typo be my guest.

Yes, I have played the game, but normal people don't just decide to be the almighty power in the world for no reason. There's either something wrong with them, they want revenge for something, or they just want power. Dr. Breen is obviously a "smart" guy, so I wonder if there is something behind it.
 
Power makes people mad. We witness it in the nowadays world and witness it in the game. Breen maybe started out as a OK guy, but he turned evil after some time.
 
Schall said:
Typo... sorry? If you really want to obsess over a typo be my guest.

Yes, I have played the game, but normal people don't just decide to be the almighty power in the world for no reason. There's either something wrong with them, they want revenge for something, or they just want power. Dr. Breen is obviously a "smart" guy, so I wonder if there is something behind it.
Click to expand...

Breen was not a normal person he was the administrator at Black Mesa. He saw we were doomed after the entire earth's military was defeated after 7 hours, so he decided to negotiate with the Combine and they rewarded him with power. I think he has no choice, we've seen the power of the combine and as such he doesn't want to piss them off.
 
Yeap. Breen's reasoning can be summed up thusly:

1) He saw subservience to the Combine as a better alternative to being wiped out entirely.

2) As a man of science, he embraced the possibilities of what assimilation into the Union would bring; immortality, new worlds, witnessing the universe outside of Earth's borders. I'm sure on some level he had to convince himself of this in order to overlook the brutality humanity was subjected to, but I have no doubt he held a genuine belief that the Combine could take us places we'd never be able to on our own.

All in all, Breen saved us. Give him your thanks.
 
Hee hee, thanks Breen. You're my hero.
In a way, yes he did save humanity in that he stepped up to be a leader so that the Combine wouldn't destroy all of humanity during the Seven Hours War. But at the same time, as he was leader, he was leading humanity into the gutter with the creation of stalkers, brainwashed soldiers, torture, etc.
But his goal was to elevate humanity to a new level, yes. However for him, the ends justify the means - any means are necessary for these goals (kinda like the Templars from Deus Ex:Invisible War). Is it necessary or moral for innocents to be tortured and murdered (or worse) for the sake of the few to experience the goodies that the Combine had to offer? No. All in all though, Breen was doing what he thought was right for humanity to survive; little did he know (or maybe he did know, but didn't care) that it was going to be the end of humanity anyway.
 
I doubt that Breen "saved humanity". If he hadn't negotiated the surrender of the human race, then the fighting would probably have gone on for slightly longer, nothing more. The Combine don't want humanity wiped out; we're not really any good to them that way. We can serve them much better as genetically, mentally, and cybernetically modified soldiers. They were always going to force us into subservience ... Breen just saw an opportunity for personal gain out of the losing situation and took it. Though I admit there's certainly aspects to his character which suggest he believes the enslavement of humanity could be a good thing ... maybe even that he's not a bad person for doing what he's doing. If that's true, those traits are certainly buried under his egotism.

I don't think enslaving and conquering us was the only reason the Combine came to Earth, though. Sure, we're a race to be conquered ... but there's something else. You hear Breen talking to an Advisor about "a host" just before he dies. I think the Advisor's true needs and objectives on Earth are yet to be fully determined.
 
You forget that the assimilation of our species was Breen's idea. The Combine were content to suck dry our resources and send us to our doom until Breen issued surrender and persuaded them to spare us and prove humanity's potential worth to the Universal Union. When you hear him scolding the Overwatch forces in Nova Prospekt, you learn that he's had to convince the Combine that humanity is of use, but that their failure to apprehend Gordon Freeman makes it an increasingly hard case to make.

Of course, everybody else in the game says "Oh he lusted for power!". But I think he was trying to act in man's best interests, even if it was grossly misguided and he had to delude himself to believe it.
 
^A lot of good points made here.

I think the human race was in a catch-22 situation: either be destroyed by the Combine during the Seven Hours War, or be slowly leeched of humanity through the induction process of the Universal Union. Breen thought the latter would be the better option. I don't think he fully realized (or chose to ignore) what atrocities were going to occur to join the Universal Union though (stalkers, the suppresion field, mind controlled soldiers, etc.).
 
Dr. Breen saved humanity from extinction. The Combine, on entering our universe, sought to purge us; there is no standard procedure to Combine occupation - they do not actively seek 'unity' with the species they come across (they annex through force), and what happened on Earth was, arguably, a special case. Breen, in surrendering humanity, had to prove our worth. He had to convince the Combine that elements of our species could contribute to their organisation, and were thus worth preserving. Breen is neither power-hungry nor mad; he is, as he himself stated, a pragmatist - a pragmatist in an increasingly hostile universe. The opportunity to resist Combine assimilation was introduced by Breen himself, ironically enough.

I would however disagree with the people stating that Breen 'believes' in the Combine 'cause'. He does not. He is not a deluded nor ignorant man; he knows what the Combine is and what it represents, and I have no doubt that he cringes at the thought of what happens in the likes of Nova Prospekt. However, as I said, it is a hostile universe - the revelation that Earth was but an insignificant speck in the realm of all reality clearly acted as a paradigm changing event for Breen. He is a man of science; arrogant and cold to be sure, but a great mind, and one that is acting in the interest of something he believes to be the only true option.

"The alternative, if you can call it that, is total extinction!"

For Breen, it was not even a catch-22. Preservation, and the potential for immortality and existence within a greater scheme, was the single, only option - no matter the cost.
 
I love how I can skip all the other posts and go straight to Samon's, because I always find myself agreeing with him.
 
Samon said:
Breen, in surrendering humanity, had to prove our worth. He had to convince the Combine that elements of our species could contribute to their organisation, and were thus worth preserving.
Click to expand...

To back this up, Breen was attempting to sort of recruit Eli for scientific research when Gordon was entering Breen's office in HL2.

Personally, I think Breen was just trying to save his own ass and grab some power in the proccess... of course, Episode 3 would be a great place to explain Breen's attempt to stall until humanity could resist. Then again, mabye not.

We do know he has been influenced by the G-Man. Also, it was he who demanded the overpower test in HL1. Don't know what any of this means...
 
Breen saved the human race.














But the Gman told him to...



muahaha.
 
Partly because he believes humanity cant really defeat the Combine. Partly because he thinks the Combine is the only chance for a future and evolution of humanity. Partly because he just likes power. Partly to save his own skin in the most comfortable way possible.
 
On Breen

This was posted by myself elsewhere, but it's also appropriate for this discussion.



One view is that he's evil for evil's sake, doing it all for the corner office in the Citadel and his nice desk.

I think that's nonsense. He knows who the Advisers are, he knows what the Combine has been doing to Earth and his citizens. Breen must have some level of understanding as to what the Combine's overarching aim at Earth is.

With this in mind, it seems a little ridiculous to suggest that he's just in it for his own personal gains. Said gains will be worthless once the Combine's subjugation is completed, they won't need him to be a smiling face for all the little humans anymore. He does what he does to service humanity, essentially sucking up to the local governors to get them to somehow spare the human race, to at least preserve a few.

This is demonstrated on multiple occasions in Half-Life 2, especially near its conclusion. He begs the Overwatch to do better in their efforts to capture Freeman, noting the perilous edge that the species was nearing. He pleads Freeman to stop fighting many times, again noting the stakes. After capturing Freeman, he speaks of making a bargain with the Combine using Freeman. This reveals just what kind of standing he has with the Combine. He's a puppet who has little room to negotiate with the entities holding the strings. Freeman was the embodiment of the "forces of decay" working themselves at his plan to prove humanity's merit to the Universal Union, and even in the end he thought surrendering Freeman could get it back on course. Breen wanted survival for his species, even if it meant the loss of Earth and freedom itself.

Again, not to say he's a good guy by any stretch of the imagination or that his means are noble, but he is isn't just in it for the office. By wiping out the resistance and helping his new masters achieve their goals, he was trying to desperately prove that humans were worth the most alive.
 
I was going to say something of similar effect earlier, but I couldn't word myself properly.

Breen's a much more interesting antagonist if he's a true believer. Perhaps he was meant to be written with a more self-serving edge, but Culp's acting and delivery makes him a more engaging and in some ways sympathetic villain.
 
^I agree.

It pulls him out of the 2-dimensional evil bad guy cliche IMO.
 
Schall said:
We can all admit Dr. Breen is definitely has something wrong with him physiologically? What was his motivation? Enslave the human race? Why? He had to have some kind of mental disorder. Alright, share you opinions now!
Click to expand...

People honestly assume that Wallace was evil, deluded and/or made with power. Niether of those are the case, I think. I really do have to agree with everything Samon said.
 
I can't help thinking there's more to him than simply wanting to preserve the human race during the Combine threat. That would imply that he didn't really believe in any of the Combine cause (unity, immortality, next stage in humanity's evolution etc), while throughout all of HL2 he makes it as obvious as he can that he does. The Breencasts are the most obvious evidence, although you could argue (soundly) that he was simply trying to subdue the masses by convincing them that it was all for the greater good. This would ensure smoother negotiations with the Combine, as opposed to people rioting in the streets. It may well have worked on some of them; they were probably desperate enough to believe anything that told them it would be alright in the end. The constant oppression and terrorisation from the Combine may also have made them ready to accept whatever Breen told them, just so they could consider themselves on the same side as their benefactors, thus granting them a little comfort. The amnesiacs in the water probably helped as well.

Anyway, proper evidence. If he doesn't really believe the words he speaks, then why does he continue to speak that way to Freeman after he's infiltrated the Citadel? Why didn't he tell Freeman his real reasons for collaborating once he could speak to just Freeman, without the public hearing? His tone when speaking to you through those monitors gave every indication that he believed his own words. Perhaps most importantly, note that conversation he was having with Eli as you enter his office. He sounded utterly awe-inspired by what the Combine had shown him, and I think that awe is the most likely source of his conviction. You could argue that revealing his real motives to Freeman would at once reveal them to the advisers, which would be disastrous, but remember that the advisers are telepathic and would probably know such motives anyway. Apart from which, they probably wouldn't care whether he really believed it all anyway, as long as he served his purpose - indeed, if they even have a "cause", then it probably isn't anything like as grand as the one Breen seems to believe in.

I guess the problem with this is how he managed to believe it. It is, after all, a logically flawed position. The fate awaiting those humans who weren't murdered by the Combine was hardly any alternative to death - living as a mindless, cybernetically enhanced weapon can't be much of a future. Possibly his sense of grandeur was enough for him to ignore the enormous human suffering, or maybe once he'd started working for the Combine and the slow genocide began, his ego was too great for to change his mind or something.
 
I think Breen made the best choice he could under the circumstances. It's hard to completely hate him.
 
Samon said:
Dr. Breen saved humanity from extinction. The Combine, on entering our universe, sought to purge us; there is no standard procedure to Combine occupation - they do not actively seek 'unity' with the species they come across (they annex through force), and what happened on Earth was, arguably, a special case. Breen, in surrendering humanity, had to prove our worth. He had to convince the Combine that elements of our species could contribute to their organisation, and were thus worth preserving. Breen is neither power-hungry nor mad; he is, as he himself stated, a pragmatist - a pragmatist in an increasingly hostile universe. The opportunity to resist Combine assimilation was introduced by Breen himself, ironically enough.

I would however disagree with the people stating that Breen 'believes' in the Combine 'cause'. He does not. He is not a deluded nor ignorant man; he knows what the Combine is and what it represents, and I have no doubt that he cringes at the thought of what happens in the likes of Nova Prospekt. However, as I said, it is a hostile universe - the revelation that Earth was but an insignificant speck in the realm of all reality clearly acted as a paradigm changing event for Breen. He is a man of science; arrogant and cold to be sure, but a great mind, and one that is acting in the interest of something he believes to be the only true option.

"The alternative, if you can call it that, is total extinction!"

For Breen, it was not even a catch-22. Preservation, and the potential for immortality and existence within a greater scheme, was the single, only option - no matter the cost.
Click to expand...

Great post.

"No! You need me..."
 
Samon said:
I would however disagree with the people stating that Breen 'believes' in the Combine 'cause'. He does not. He is not a deluded nor ignorant man; he knows what the Combine is and what it represents, and I have no doubt that he cringes at the thought of what happens in the likes of Nova Prospekt.
Click to expand...
That's not to say that he doesn't find the benefits of humanity being assimilated a negative prospect. While it may have been the only option, to Breen's mind what the Combine was proposing to do to the human race wasn't a bad option. In fact it was a rather good option, from a scientist's perspective.

So he does believe in their cause, if only because he believes it benefits mankind more than just keeping the race alive. Any atrocities the Combine might commit can be overlooked in the bigger picture.
 
I think Breen is not truly evil, he has good intentions. But he is somewhat in a delusion that the combine can "help" humanity overcome its primitive instincts.
 
But he is somewhat in a delusion that the combine can "help" humanity overcome its primitive instincts.
Click to expand...

Combine stopped war, disease, famine, upgraded our weak bodies, simplified our biological processes, removed the burden of choice by giving us a singleminded purpose, introduced us to fascinating new species, offered us the chance to be shipped out to worlds yet unseen by human eyes, and granted us immortality.

Humanity was weak. Now it is strong.

The Combine is good.

Live for the Combine.
 
In that light, our Gordon Freeman is kind of a dick.
 
Darkside55 said:
Combine stopped war, disease, famine, upgraded our weak bodies, simplified our biological processes, removed the burden of choice by giving us a singleminded purpose, introduced us to fascinating new species, offered us the chance to be shipped out to worlds yet unseen by human eyes, and granted us immortality.

Humanity was weak. Now it is strong.

The Combine is good.

Live for the Combine.
Click to expand...
Someone didn't listen to that citizen in the train-station.
 
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