A Question on Hitboxes

[mym8marmite]

I seem to remember reading in the emails from valve thread (or somewhere on this site) that HL2 will again be using hitboxes but you will be able to use quite a few.

I have a rough idea of how hitboxes work, ie. its a trade-off between accuracy and simplicity.

My question is (be gentle, I'm a noob) do the hitboxes have to be out side the model (ie if the model was a simple sphere, would the hitbox have to a a square that is bigger than the sphere, or could you have hitboxes be within the model (smaller than the model). The reason I'm thinking this is if you had a model of a person and put hitboxes where the heart, brain, lungs etc were you could more accurately model damage based on hits to vital areas. For example if the hitboxes for the brain or heart area detected a hit, it would result in instant death, but if the hit was in the chest but not hitting the heart, then it would be say 90% damage.

Is this possible?

 

[Nex321]

nothing wrong with being a noob

 

[shad3r]

they can be any size u like

they are independent of the model

EDIT: prefer promite + vegemite

 

[CrazyHarij]

Yes, it's possible.

However, for very complicated stuff like the organs idea you're suggesting, you need lots of shiny computer power which could be spent on better things.

As for the hitbox placement, most games have the hitboxes bigger than the visual bodyparts, especially in HL-modifications like CS, the game with the most debate on hitboxes.

 

[T.H.C.138]

damn,thats a good question..
I wish I knew more about the subject so I could help

 

[SLH]

You'd probably need to code changes to make it so that a bullet could hit the 'body' hitbox AND the 'heart' hitbox (without stopping at just the first one it hit).

 

[mym8marmite]

Thanks for the replys sofar.

I brought this up because many people moan about hitbox vs per polygon (doom3?) and the fact that if the hit box is larger or the corners are outside the model area, a hit will be detected even thought the bullet didn't hit the model.

If you made the hitboxes smaller so that the corners are only just outside the model area, any shots that hit the model but miss the hitbox could be discounted as a flesh wound.

 

[PvtRyan]

I thought there were more types of hitboxes this time than just boxes (ie cilindrical, spherical) or am I wrong?

But it has been said that you would be able to do per-poly collision detection, but at the cost of CPU time.

I brought this up because many people moan about hitbox vs per polygon (doom3?)

Doom 3 has per-pixel.

 

[SLH]

Yeha, hitboxes can be any shape, although a cubiod is traditional as it is low poly.

 

[Brian Damage]

Are the hitboxes also used as the physics hulls, or are they separate things?

 

[Miker75]

I would say hitboxes for various parts of the body have been around for quite some time (can anyone say "headshot!!!" ??). I would assume the have different hitboxes for say the head as opposed to an arm or whatnot.
I guess you *could* do the heart as well, but then maybe have to put 8 smaller hitboxes around it for the rest of the body, not really worth it since hitting a lung or whatnot would be nearly as devastating.

 

[SAJ]

Yes , you could have separate boxes for specific body parts and I think it would be a good idea in games that it would make sense in(vampire hunter for example).
One of the main advantages of hitboxes as opposed to per poly/pixel hit detection is standardisation of targets, something that seems to have been largly forgotten in this kind of "x vs y " debate.
Hitboxes allow a diverse set of models to all share the same chances of being hit , something that isnt possible with per poly/pixel. One of the critisisms of doom3`s multi was the single player model available, a move that was essential ,balance-wise , with a per poly hit detection method.

 

[Gray Fox]

Precilsely, if you want to have a diverse amount of models you need to use hitboxes, but since folks who play official tournaments don't use custom models, it would be then smart to have to options one for the tournamenst with models with poly hitdetection and one with hitboxes, so if lets say you have custom models the server cheks that and if the server is set to allow hitboxes then you can play with you're custom models and if its set for per polygon hitdetection then you automaticly use the original models.

Oh yeah could somebody tell me why they don't use custom models, or atleast as far as I know, i havent seen an official tournament movie where they used custom models, is there a rule against it, to prevent cheating, like haveing all players have big heads so you could spot them even if you couldn't hit them or in the same manner makeng the p_models be longer so you could spot somebodies weapon from if he is hiding behind something.

 

[SLH]

Are the hitboxes also used as the physics hulls, or are they separate things?

Depends on how havok is done, and how valve decided to do it. There's no reason why they couldn't be the same (i don't think), although they might want different ones for each.

 

[NetWarriorDan]

Form my understanding "hit boxes" aren't boxes anymore. More like a low poly mesh much like the way battlefield 1942 does it. You see the hi poly but the hit detection is on a model thet has that amount of polys on a HL1 model. More or less. So its like per poly for HL. This is what I think. I'm not sure.

 

[ShinRa]

nothing wrong with being a noob

yea, look how well your doing! :E

 

[rkef]

For anyone who has CS:S, you can start a server and use "sv_showhitboxes 1" in console, to see them. Also use "thirdperson", to get a better view (though it's quite awkward to control and when you fire, it shows the explosion from your gun... behind you... w/e).

There may be a similar command in CS1.6, I don't know.

They seem to hug the model quite tightly, but it's not ideal, I suppose.

 

[BlazeKun]

For anyone who has CS:S, you can start a server and use "sv_showhitboxes 1" in console, to see them. Also use "thirdperson", to get a better view (though it's quite awkward to control and when you fire, it shows the explosion from your gun... behind you... w/e).

There may be a similar command in CS1.6, I don't know.

They seem to hug the model quite tightly, but it's not ideal, I suppose.

I remember last time I checked (which was when CS:S first got unlocked onto steam) that the sv_showhitboxes 1 command showed the OLD hitboxes from 1.6 and not the CS:S hitboxes. Though I could be wrong.

 

[rkef]

Yeah, I'm really not sure, tbh. Just noticed that command at some point, when I got into the beta a few weeks ago.

:/

 

[NetWarriorDan]

Can someone post a screen shot?

 

[FISKER_Q]

The CS:S hitboxes are shaped to follow the model. And not like they're shown with sv_showhitboxes 1

 

[Ecthe|ioN]

The CS:S hitboxes are shaped to follow the model. And not like they're shown with sv_showhitboxes 1

yeah, I've heard that too. The hitboxes in CSS have been improved a whole lot since the beta was first released, and I feel they are much better than the 1.6 hitboxes. But maybe that's just me ..

 

[Dead-Inside]

I seem to remember reading in the emails from valve thread (or somewhere on this site) that HL2 will again be using hitboxes but you will be able to use quite a few.

I have a rough idea of how hitboxes work, ie. its a trade-off between accuracy and simplicity.

My question is (be gentle, I'm a noob) do the hitboxes have to be out side the model (ie if the model was a simple sphere, would the hitbox have to a a square that is bigger than the sphere, or could you have hitboxes be within the model (smaller than the model). The reason I'm thinking this is if you had a model of a person and put hitboxes where the heart, brain, lungs etc were you could more accurately model damage based on hits to vital areas. For example if the hitboxes for the brain or heart area detected a hit, it would result in instant death, but if the hit was in the chest but not hitting the heart, then it would be say 90% damage.

Is this possible?

Actually you're not a n00b (Nobody), you're a newbie (Beginner). People have really started losing the meaning of those two words.