Abbas Submits Palestinian Request For Statehood To The UN.

[Shyam]

""I call upon the distinguished members of the Security Council to vote in favour of our full membership," Abbas told the UN General Assembly.

"I do not believe that anyone with a shred of conscience can reject our application for a full membership in the United Nations and our admission as an independent state," Abbas said."


Source: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/09/201192312433584593.html

Netanyahu Is of course very much interested in the peace negotiations.

["Let's meet today in the United Nations," Netanyahu said in an appeal launched during his address to the UN General Assembly shortly after Abbas presented a formal bid for UN membership for a Palestinian state.

"I cannot make peace alone. I cannot make peace without you," Netanyahu told Abbas. "We are both sons of Abraham ... our destinies are intertwined."

Source: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/09/2011923183936789549.html

Once again, we see how palestinians are being unreasonably stubborn and just plain evil. They are breaking this old man's heart.


Obama however, once promised that the U.S. would reach out to the Arab world, they will work together to bring peace to the Middle East......

"Palestinians need to live in a sovereign state of their own. Their vision has been delayed for too long. That is why the US has spent time and money helping to build a Palestinian state," Obama said.

He then added: "Yet America's commitment to Israel's security is unshakeable and our friendship with it is enduring."

Members of the General Assembly, where pro-Palestinian sentiment is high, listened politely but had only a muted response to Obama's 36-minute speech.

Obama then later told Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas that the US would veto any Security Council move to recognise Palestinian statehood.

Source: http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/09/201192114323726757.html

I am fairly neutral on this issue, but it is certainly an interesting move from the Palestinians. The Israelis want them to return to peace talks, but unfortunately the land in West bank is getting smaller for the Palestinians.

Israel is getting even more isolated. It is pushing away it's sole Muslim Ally, Turkey. It just got worse when the Israeli foreign Minister thought it was a good idea that the
Israelis should support Kurdish rebels against Turkey.

It will be interesting to say the least moving forward.

 

[Acepilotf14]

It was kind of a dick move to steal land in the first place.

 

[Stigmata]

Israel only exists because Zionists wanted the Holy Land "back" from Palestine. So, **** that country (but not the Jews).

 

[The Monkey]

Obama is such a ****ing idiot. "We support the creation of an independent Palestinian state, but we will veto a resolution that will do just that." Seriously, what the ****? If the dick of the Zionists so far up his ass that he can't even try to lie properly anymore?

 

[GreatEmperor]

Obama is such a ****ing idiot. "We support the creation of an independent Palestinian state, but we will veto a resolution that will do just that." Seriously, what the ****? If the dick of the Zionists so far up his ass that he can't even try to lie properly anymore?

Maybe he wants bloodshed, or wants the Israelis to act like not them and give something back. One of those will definitely happen, but this fits into his policy here too, he allows moneyed and shitty interests to keep doing what they do while just throwing his hands up, it does show them pretty clearly for what they are, but it is not what he is there for

 

[No Limit]

Another example of Obama giving great speeches but when it comes time to actually do something decisive and bold he folds like a lawn chair. I can't believe I actually supported this asshole.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

How can you support a state that wants to wipe one of our allies from the map?

Friday:

"They talk to us about the Jewish state, but I respond to them with a final answer: We shall not recognize a Jewish state,"

'Abbas said in a meeting with some 200 senior representatives of the Palestinian community in the US, shortly before taking the podium and delivering a speech at the United Nations General Assembly.'

A two state solution is only acceptable if Israel is recognized as one of those states.


If the PLO can accept the correct borders then it may work out. Then you've got Abbas saying these types of things and Hamas saying there can be no Israel, period- that Jews must be pushed into the sea.

It seems a lot of you are unable to grasp that there is a history of opression in this land before the 6 day war and prior to the 1940's.

 

[Nabobalis]

There was an interesting debate on newsnight if i recall about that term he used, "Jewish state". Bascially, they said that Abbas will accept a two state solution with Israel but he will not call it a Jewish state since it make around 1 million Palestinians living there.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

It's an assault on Jewish culture (not just religious)

See from wikipedia: "When the First Palestinian Congress of February 1919 issued its anti-Zionist manifesto rejecting Zionist immigration, it extended a welcome to those Jews "among us who have been Arabicized, who have been living in our province since before the war; they are as we are, and their loyalties are our own.""

It's clear that the PLO will only accept the Arabization of the entire area as a solution. A "Jewish" state (IE: Non Arab/Non Muslim) is not acceptable to them and probably never will be. They have to recognize and accept that Israel today is a completely different culture as them and until they accept that and will truly live peacefully with a two state solution it wont happen.

 

[No Limit]

Why do you expect Palestine to recognize Israel as a state when Israel won't do the same with Palestine? If this is your logic for them wanting to wipe Israel off the map then clear you also think Israel wants to wipe Palestine off the map, no? Or does this only work one way for you?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Why do you expect Palestine to recognize Israel as a state when Israel won't do the same with Palestine? If this is your logic for them wanting to wipe Israel off the map then clear you also think Israel wants to wipe Palestine off the map, no? Or does this only work one way for you?

Israel is fully willing to recognize a Palestinian state, the dispute is on the borders. PLO and Hamas flat out refuse to recognize Israel- period. They believe the whole area should be an Arab state.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I should state either way I don't think it's our (The United States) place to regulate the matter, nor should we even be in the UN. But from a 3rd party perspective, the PLO and Hamas have got to recognize Israel's right to exist as a Jewish state if they want to get anywhere.

 

[CptStern]

How can you support a state that wants to wipe one of our allies from the map?

ya that was Ahmadinejad who is not palestinian. also that quote was purposefully misconstrued

The translation presented by the official Islamic Republic News Agency has been challenged by Arash Norouzi, who says the statement "wiped off the map" was never made and that Ahmadinejad did not refer to the nation or land mass of Israel, but to the "regime occupying Jerusalem". Norouzi translated the original Persian to English, with the result, "the Imam said this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time."

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

"Israel is not a legitimate entity, and no amount of pressure can force us to recognize its right to exist."
-Dr. Mahmud Al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, Washington Times, February 4, 2006

"Before Israel dies, it must be humiliated and degraded. Allah willing, before they die, they will experience humiliation and degradation every day."
-Dr. Mahmud Al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, Washington Times, February 4, 2006

"Neither the liberation of the Gaza Strip nor the liberation of the West Bank or even Jerusalem will suffice us. Hamas will pursue the armed struggle until the liberation of all our lands. We don't recognize the state of Israel or its right to hold onto one inch of Palestine. Palestine is an Islamic land belonging to all the Muslims."
-Dr. Mahmud al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, The Jerusalem Post, August 18, 2005

"Tomorrow, our nation will sit on the throne of the world. This is not a figment of the imagination, but a fact. Tomorrow we will lead the world, Allah willing."
-Khalid al-Mish'al, leader of Hamas, Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006

"She [Hamas suicide bomber Re'em Al-Riyashi] is not going to be the last because the march of resistance will continue until the Islamic flag is raised, not only over the minarets of Jerusalem, but over the whole universe."
-Dr. Mahmud Al-Zahar, Hamas leader in Gaza, Associated Press, January 15, 2004

"To hell with you all."
-Khalid al-Mish'al, leader of Hamas, speaking about German Chancellor Merkel's call for Hamas to recognize Israel, Al-Jazeera TV, February 3, 2006

"Our law is a Jordanian law that we inherited, which applies to both the West Bank and Gaza, and sets the death penalty for those who sell land to Israelis.... We are talking about a few traitors, and we shall implement against them what is written in the law books. It is our right and our obligation to defend our land."

--- Palestinian Authority Chairman Yasser Arafat (Yediot Aharonot, 21 May 1997)

"This is a very dangerous act and there has been a decision to ban it by putting anyone who sells even a centimeter on swift trial and to seek the death penalty against them.... These people are traitors and Israel exploits them in expanding its settlements."

--- Palestinian Authority Justice Minister Freih Abu Middein (Agence France Presse, 5 May 1997)

"Whoever is found to have sold land to Jews, his punishment is death. It is forbidden to pray for him, it is forbidden to purify his body before burial, and it is forbidden to bury him in a Muslim cemetery."

--- Ikrama Sabri, Palestinian Authority mufti, Islamic religious leader, for Jerusalem (Yediot Aharonot, 20 May 1997)

"Despite all the conspiracies, Jerusalem and Palestine from the River to the Sea will remain Islamic until judgment day...."

--- Ikrama Sabri, Palestinian Authority mufti for Jerusalem, in his weekly sermon at the Temple Mount's Al-Aksa Mosque. Reference is to the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, an area including all of the State of Israel. (Voice of Palestine Radio, 9 May 1997)

"The Zionist entity exists on seized land. The Jews remain enemies because they expropriate lands, build settlements and pay high sums to buy properties. They are the greatest enemies of us Muslims."

--- Ikrama Sabri, Palestinian Authority mufti for Jerusalem. "The Zionist entity" is a common euphemism used by those who do not recognize the legitimacy of the State of Israel. (The New York Times, 18 May 1997)

 

[CptStern]

ya those quotes are nice but not one of them mentions wiping israel off the face of the map. probably because it wasnt a palestinian who said it

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Statements like "We don't recognize the state of Israel or its right to hold onto one inch of Palestine. Palestine is an Islamic land belonging to all the Muslims."

Are pretty much the same as saying wipe Israel off the map. They (current Palestinian & Arab leaders) do not believe a nation called Israel should exist. They believe it should not be on the map, period.

 

[CptStern]

Statements like "We don't recognize the state of Israel or its right to hold onto one inch of Palestine. Palestine is an Islamic land belonging to all the Muslims."

Are pretty much the same as saying wipe Israel off the map.

except when it's not the same thing as saying the regime that currently occupies palestine should be removed

I mean if you're going to misquote at least get the real meaning behind your misattributed quote right

They (current Palestinian & Arab leaders) do not believe a nation called Israel should exist. They believe it should not be on the map, period.

no offense but you're not exactly the most reliable person to interpret what leaders may or may not have had said. your first step is verifying whether the person said it or not. this is a skill you lack

 

[No Limit]

Israel is fully willing to recognize a Palestinian state, the dispute is on the borders. PLO and Hamas flat out refuse to recognize Israel- period. They believe the whole area should be an Arab state.

You totally missed my point. As it stands Israel refuses to recoginze Palestine as a state. Just as Palestine refuses to recognize Israel as a state. In both cases the issue as you said is over borders. But why do you claim one has good intentions while the other does not?

If you want to talk about quotes from leaders in this conflict why do you ignore all the inflametory stuff coming from Israel's side (not to mention all the WP raining down on populated Gaza areas courtesy of Israel)? Such as these:

There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy." Israeli president Moshe Katsav

"The Palestinians" would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." " Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle." Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.

"May God strike them down with the plague along with all the nasty Palestinians who persecute Israel" - Rabbi Ovadia Yosef leader of Israelis leading religious coalition

"The more qassam fire intensifies and the rockets reach a longer range, they (the Palestinians) will bring upon themselves a bigger shoah (meaning holocaust) because we will use all our might to defend ourselves..." - Matan Vilnai, deputy defence minister

I could go on, but I think you get the idea.

So again, why do you give Israel a pass and put all the blame on Palestine?

 

[GreatEmperor]

How can you support a state that wants to wipe one of our allies from the map?

Israel may be the shittiest ally in history, they provide nothing but consume everything, they are merely a special interest group with borders needing constant support. They are also very brazen with us

 

[Shyam]

Israel is fully willing to recognize a Palestinian state, the dispute is on the borders. PLO and Hamas flat out refuse to recognize Israel- period. They believe the whole area should be an Arab state.

Except for a minor difference. 10% of west bank territory has been taken over by settlements and 60% of West bank is dotted by security checkpoints.

You have pretty much picked up quotes from Hamas, a conservative relatively hardline group in palestinian politics. Israel's foreign minister has at one point threatened to support the PKK against Turkey for their increasingly hostile reaction to the israeli stance on Palestine.

I don't think the right wingers in Israel Mr. Netanyahu included actually wants a two state solution. They are stupid, just like hamas.

 

[Solaris]

Israel clearly wants a long term, two state peaceful solution to this.

The only problem is that Israel is literally surrounded by hostile countries and armies who would quite happily drive every single Jew in the region into the sea. Because of these, they cannot give Palestine full autonomy. Israel must retain air and military control over Palestine if it is to be secure.

Palestine has nothing to fear from Israel, if Hamas/PLO were interested, they could have their state tomorrow. Until then,, Israel has my support.

 

[Kadayi]

Israel clearly wants a long term, two state peaceful solution to this.

Do they ****. What they (the right wing religious Zealots who run Israel) want is to drive the Palestinians out of Palestine and specifically Jerusalem and annex the entire occupied territories into Israel because 'God' gave them the land as his chosen people (anyone else including you solaris is worthless). Once they do that they'll demolish the mosque presently built on the ruins of the temple of the mount, and rebuild the temple of Solomon, and revive the time honoured tradition of animal sacrifice they've been skipping on all these years: -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temple_Mount

Personally I'd be inclined to nuke the site from Orbit a good dozen times so no ****er could get with 60 miles of it for the next 20000 years, as it's continued presence is at the deep heart of the religious insanity that drives the on going conflict. Whilst the people of Israel are unable to see through the manifest destiny they feel they must aspire to, nothing meaningful will ever come of the peace talks, because the intention is not to reach an accord, merely to maintain a Status Quo that allows the state of Israel to gradually acquire more and more land in Palestine, whilst oppressing the Palestinians at every step. You have to understand that the Israeli perspective on this is one of a game of extreme patience. No Israeli today expects to live to see the temple of Solomon rebuilt, but they work towards it with the hope that their great grandchildren will. It's admirable, disturbing and pathetic all in one. Were the US not pulling the veto card at any given opportunity, the entire problem would of been fixed by the UN a long time ago, with the 1967 borders as the accepted distinction.

Education, it's a wonderful thing.

 

[Solaris]

Kadayi is calling Israel biggoted zealots whilst at the same time advocating a nuclear genocide on the Israeli and 'Palestinian' people.

Just goes to show, you can be as bigoted and evil as you want to be on the left. as long as you remember to have a go at Israel.

Kadayi, Israel have offered the PLO 1967 boundaries many times, it is the PLO and Hamas who won't accept it (see the camp david proposals).

 

[Shakermaker]

Kadayi is calling Israel biggoted zealots whilst at the same time advocating a nuclear genocide on the Israeli and 'Palestinian' people.

Just goes to show, you can be as bigoted and evil as you want to be on the left. as long as you remember to have a go at Israel.

Kadayi, Israel have offered the PLO 1967 boundaries many times, it is the PLO and Hamas who won't accept it (see the camp david proposals).

No, Kadayi says Israel is being run by bigoted zealots and that is mostly true. Israeli politics have been moving to the right ever since Rabin was killed by one of those bigoted zealots in 1995. It used to be a fairly secular country but those days are long gone.

Also, the nuclear option is clearly hyperbole, but in essence Kad is right. Jerusalem has always been a contested city, even more so because all three major Abrahamic religions claim it as one of their holy places. As long as its walls are still standing, people (or peoples, rather) will go to war over Jerusalem. Rub it out of existence somehow and the world would be a more peaceful place.

It is not a workable solution though. There aren't any, really. Too bad because the Holy Land sure is pretty.

 

[CptStern]

kayadi is on the "left"? and since when does he or any one person speak for the left? and if it's only people on the left that criticise israel that just means the people on the right are partisan idiots who have care nothing about the rule of law. lumping everyone into a nice little package can work both ways solaris regardless if it's true or not

 

[Eejit]

Kadayi is calling Israel biggoted zealots whilst at the same time advocating a nuclear genocide on the Israeli and 'Palestinian' people.

He said 'nuke the site'. I agree, as long as it's evacuated first.

 

[Kadayi]

Kadayi is calling Israel biggoted zealots whilst at the same time advocating a nuclear genocide on the Israeli and 'Palestinian' people.

Just goes to show, you can be as bigoted and evil as you want to be on the left. as long as you remember to have a go at Israel.

Kadayi, Israel have offered the PLO 1967 boundaries many times, it is the PLO and Hamas who won't accept it (see the camp david proposals).

For a true and lasting peace between the Israeli and Palestinian peoples, there must be two viable and independent states living as equal neighbors. Israel's Camp David proposal, which was never set forth in writing, denied the Palestinian state viability and independence by dividing Palestinian territory into four separate cantons entirely surrounded, and therefore controlled, by Israel. The Camp David proposal also denied Palestinians control over their own borders, airspace and water resources while legitimizing and expanding illegal Israeli colonies in Palestinian territory. Israel's Camp David proposal presented a 're-packaging' of military occupation, not an end to military occupation.

http://www.mediamonitors.net/pnt1.html

By accepting the Camp David proposals the Palestinians would of effectively been legitimizing the illegal settlements and consigning themselves internationally to ignominy at the hands of Israel.

 

[15357]

Go and argue with a Merkava IV then; you won't win that debate.

 

[Kadayi]

Go and argue with a Merkava IV then; you won't win that debate.

You advocating might is right, is kind of hilarious tbh. Also the IDF aren't all that. A steady diet of shooting at people throwing rocks and unarmed civilians is hardly
'combat' Vs the stuff going down in Afganistan.

 

[<RJMC>]

You advocating might is right, is kind of hilarious tbh. Also the IDF aren't all that. A steady diet of shooting at people throwing rocks and unarmed civilians is hardly
'combat' Vs the stuff going down in Afganistan.

we are talking about the israeli armed forces,the ones who train other armed forces and have almost the best of the best

or you will say the iranian can wipe them off whit spoons?

 

[Kadayi]

we are talking about the israeli armed forces, the ones who train other armed forces and have almost the best of the best

The IDF are largely a conscription army, they are not anywhere remotely the mighty force to be reckoned with you presume. Beating on Palestinians every now and then might look all shock and awe to the uninformed, but plain truth of the matter is against a professional army they'd shit themselves when push comes to shove.

 

[Stigmata]

The IAF is basically the smaller, vaguely more-religious version of the USAF, which itself is the Hardcore Rap Gang to the rest of the world's Somali pirates - blinged out, egotistical as ****, and haven't been in a real fight for a decade or so.

 

[Shakermaker]

The IDF are largely a conscription army, they are not anywhere remotely the mighty force to be reckoned with you presume. Beating on Palestinians every now and then might look all shock and awe to the uninformed, but plain truth of the matter is against a professional army they'd shit themselves when push comes to shove.

Then again Israel won't ever be faced by a professional army. Their most likely opponents all have armed forces with strong ties to the ruling oligarchy. Because of that the pool of experienced soldiers is a lot smaller than in Israel. When push comes to shove the Israelis can basically mobilize their whole population, both men and women. All these people will have spent at least two years in the armed forces and will most likely have experienced some form of combat.

 

[15357]

You advocating might is right, is kind of hilarious tbh. Also the IDF aren't all that. A steady diet of shooting at people throwing rocks and unarmed civilians is hardly
'combat' Vs the stuff going down in Afganistan.

It was actually a comment on the whole "not recognizing Israel as a state" thing.

In retrospect, I should have quoted.

The IDF are largely a conscription army, they are not anywhere remotely the mighty force to be reckoned with you presume. Beating on Palestinians every now and then might look all shock and awe to the uninformed, but plain truth of the matter is against a professional army they'd shit themselves when push comes to shove.

Meh, a conscript army has its merits. You'd be surprised at the effectiveness of conscription, as well as the little difference between a conscript army with an educated population and a volunteer army. Also, you need to take into account the vast pool of already-trained reserves that a conscript army brings.

Besides, the IDF has had a whole lot of experience in real combat, back when the Egyptians actually mattered. It should also be worth noting that Israeli equipment is far better off than most nations.

Anyway, my point is that the opposite of professional is not conscripted.

 

[Kadayi]

All these people will have spent at least two years in the armed forces and will most likely have experienced some form of combat.

I'd say 'combat' is pushing it.

 

[Shakermaker]

I'd say 'combat' is pushing it.

Still, they'd have more experience than their opponents.

 

[<RJMC>]

also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War

but yeah sure they are not superior to mighty soviet equiped soldiers right kadayi?

 

[15357]

Still, they'd have more experience than their opponents.

Yeah, especially considering that the military body as a whole benefits from experience, not just the soldiers that have actually experienced combat.