Black Mesa scientists in front of Borealis...

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Nihilanth said:
Is anyone going to discuss why Eli and Kleiner were on the monitors in that room?
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I really think it tags into the theory that the GMan planned on what happened to Eli, or was just monitoring Eli's actions. Why, I don't know.
 
DerbyDriver1985 said:
I am almost - in fact, I AM 100% sure that it's not. There is no reason to believe that it is. No reason at all.

Evidence supporting the idea that it's NOT:

1. Valve used clips directly from HL1 in a g-man monologue in the past. Why would they change now?

2. The layout is vaguely similar at best, not nearly closely related enough to assume they were the same. If the Black Mesa logo never appeared on the screen I bet 99% of you would never think it was Black Mesa.

3. G-man talked about a lot of things, all of which appeared on the screen in the back ground. Just because a BM logo appeared on the screen does not mean it had anything to do with the room he was in.

Now, let's examine the evidence supporting the idea that it IS Black Mesa:

1. A Black Mesa logo was seen on the screen.

........

anything else?
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2. Exact same layout.
3. Exact same desk.
4. Exact same monitors in the exactly same location.
And they couldn't make it a pre-recorded thing like in the HL2 intro because G-man is actually INSIDE it this time, not a floating head.
 
FrostXian said:
2. Exact same layout.
3. Exact same desk.
4. Exact same monitors in the exactly same location.
And they couldn't make it a pre-recorded thing like in the HL2 intro because G-man is actually INSIDE it this time, not a floating head.
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I agree even the wall behind where the camera shows in that roon has a small blank area where the double doors would be in HL1 the desk was in the same place, monitor aimed the same direction, cameras on the wall are arranged exactly the same way and the doors on the right are leading out to the same direction as the hallway in black mesa, the only argument that i can think of is that Valve wants us to think that its black mesa but theres a chance it might not be what we think...
 
Honestly, I don't think that room was in Black Mesa. The screen started off blank when you entered it, and only changed to the logo for a few seconds when G-Man stated he "plucked" Alyx from Black Mesa, and had other images on it relevant to what he was talking about at the time. I'm pretty sure it's the HQ or something of G-Man's.
 
I'd like to think the room isn't the Black Mesa Control room we first saw, for the main reason that there are probably tonnes of other rooms that look like that.

I need a better PC so I don't lag like **** during the Gman's G-trip.
 
The room in the Gman sequence is in Black Mesa, here is a screenshot someone took on the Steampowered forums of the Source SDK that proves it is.
 
B3nch said:
The room in the Gman sequence is in Black Mesa, here is a screenshot someone took on the Steampowered forums of the Source SDK that proves it is.
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Thank you.

Of course it's Black Mesa. What else would it be? The Gman's interstellar office that just happens to be the same size and furnished exactly the same way?

He obviously 'conjured' that location as a backdrop to make his point.
 
SpectreBlofeld said:
Thank you.

Of course it's Black Mesa. What else would it be? The Gman's interstellar office that just happens to be the same size and furnished exactly the same way?

He obviously 'conjured' that location as a backdrop to make his point.
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It's NOT furnished the same way, at all, not even close. There's a desk, a computer monitor, and screens on the walls. Why are there doors to the back right corner of the room? There weren't in HL1. Where are those hanging lights above the desk? Why isn't the desk shaped like an L? Where is the vent leading to that computer room? The screens on the left side were normally a lot closer to the back wall.
 
DerbyDriver1985 said:
It's NOT furnished the same way, at all, not even close. There's a desk, a computer monitor, and screens on the walls. Why are there doors to the back right corner of the room? There weren't in HL1. Where are those hanging lights above the desk? Why isn't the desk shaped like an L? Where is the vent leading to that computer room? The screens on the left side were normally a lot closer to the back wall.
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It doesn't matter if it's furnished differently. The animations for Gman in that scene are titled "G_blackmesa_blabla" it's obviously supposed to be Black Mesa.
 
B3nch said:
It doesn't matter if it's furnished differently. The animations for Gman in that scene are titled "G_blackmesa_blabla" it's obviously supposed to be Black Mesa.
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or, that title refers to his monologue about Black Mesa.
 
Nihilanth said:
Honestly, I don't think that room was in Black Mesa. The screen started off blank when you entered it, and only changed to the logo for a few seconds when G-Man stated he "plucked" Alyx from Black Mesa, and had other images on it relevant to what he was talking about at the time. I'm pretty sure it's the HQ or something of G-Man's.
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G-Man does not have an HQ. Certainly not a dinky, bland, reception office.

And as I said before: It's a reimagining of the room. Come on, guys. This isn't the first time this has happened. Vortigaunts have been reimagined differently from appearances in HL1. Character appearances and voices have. It's just how Valve wanted to do it now. It's not exactly the same, but it maintains the original impression. Black Mesa Source does exactly this in some areas.
 
Absinthe said:
G-Man does not have an HQ. Certainly not a dinky, bland, reception office.

And as I said before: It's a reimagining of the room. Come on, guys. This isn't the first time this has happened. Vortigaunts have been reimagined differently from appearances in HL1. Character appearances and voices have. It's just how Valve wanted to do it now. It's not exactly the same, but it maintains the original impression. Black Mesa Source does exactly this in some areas.
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Still, this is Valve we're talking about, I think if they wanted it to be obvious that it was supposed to be Black Mesa, they'd have made the room a lot more similar. Look at a side by side, they look NOTHING, absolutely nothing alike aside from a vaguely similar layout.
 
WOW great find! I think the 2 scientists were bribed from Black Mesa. Probably Aperture bribed them to give them the low down on portal tech and that's how they came about making the portal gun.
 
DerbyDriver1985 said:
Still, this is Valve we're talking about, I think if they wanted it to be obvious that it was supposed to be Black Mesa, they'd have made the room a lot more similar. Look at a side by side, they look NOTHING, absolutely nothing alike aside from a vaguely similar layout.
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But it is obvious it's supposed to be Black Mesa. The commentary even says the scene was supposed to evoke the past, what else in the Gman scene could they possibly be referring to in the commentary other than Black Mesa?
 
Also the black mesa logo in the background sort of wraps that up for me.
 
It's Black mesa, but i doesn't have to be the same room. I also think that they could have done it more obvius if it where.
 
DerbyDriver1985 said:
Still, this is Valve we're talking about, I think if they wanted it to be obvious that it was supposed to be Black Mesa, they'd have made the room a lot more similar. Look at a side by side, they look NOTHING, absolutely nothing alike aside from a vaguely similar layout.
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They are exactly the same, because Valve wanted to make it obvious that they are the same room, and they did.
Go get glasses, a common sense, or just shut up. Apperantly you have trouble percieving visuals.
Look;
:frog: :frog:
OH MY GOD, THOSE TWO ARE SO DIFFERENT ARE THEY NOT!?
^
That's you, to us.
For God's sake, Valve OPENLY STATED, CLEARY SPOKE, THAT THE PLACE IS WHERE WE CAME TROUGH IN BLACK MESA.
 
Good lord. That room is Black Mesa Sector C Test Labs foyer how it would look like if Valve made Half-Life today (and a small kick for the BMS team, although not intended). The differences are minor and not needed.

Why was the orignal test chamber used in HL2's intro? Because it was Gordon's memory, not a vision.
 
I think the room is like when you have a dream about somewhere you know in real life but it appears different and alien at the same time.

In short, those of you facists who were douches about it need to log off. It is and yet isn't the same room.

Thankyou.

As has been said, if it was meant to be a genuine carbon copy, it would have looked actually like the room. As it is, the closest resemblance is a general layout.
 
Wasn't Black Mesa nuked or something like that?

So how could G-Man be there?
 
FrostXian said:
They are exactly the same, because Valve wanted to make it obvious that they are the same room, and they did.
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Nope, not exactly the same. Things are in generally the same location, but that's really the ONLY comparison you can draw between the two rooms.
 
I've been all over both maps mentioned in this tread and and i cant find the borealis images anywere. can someone please give me a screen shot of where they found it?
 
Sanford476 said:
not what im talking about, im talking about the GMan being in Black Mesa and the Arctic Base, i believe that picture if from right after the transmission finishes and Kleiner says "wait theres something else here" i believe its one of the pictures that go flashing by. I also thing they got the picture by extracting it from a game file, maybe?
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The whole reason im wondering is because of how horribly it was done. Its like someone went into paint and just cut out the the scientists from the group shot and pasted it in front of some boat.

I need a location. Or a game file, or something.

And as for gmans room, it is blackmesa. For all we know, we wanted a desk so he stole the whole room and went off to his secluded dimension, whatever it is he lives in.
Another theory is that it was created from his memorys of the reception room, and sometimes memories are distorted with time. It could a copy of another similiar room in blackmesa. Probably all tram stops lead to a catwalk that leads to rooms like that.

CakeCube said:
Wasn't Black Mesa nuked or something like that?

So how could G-Man be there?
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I dont remember it being nuked. It was nuked in one of the xpacks but that was made by some other company and is not part of the story line.
 
Great Grizzly said:
The whole reason im wondering is because of how horribly it was done. Its like someone went into paint and just cut out the the scientists from the group shot and pasted it in front of some boat.

I need a location. Or a game file, or something.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what they did - copy and paste the exact image of the scientists in front of the Borealis. The reason you can't find the image in the game is because it flashes by very quickly during Mossman's transmission. It's not meant to be stared at and compared to the other photo.

Even if it IS supposed to be the same scientists, what are the chances that they would strike the exact same pose and be wearing the exact same clothing?
 
Great Grizzly said:
I dont remember it being nuked. It was nuked in one of the xpacks but that was made by some other company and is not part of the story line.
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I swear to God I'm going to make a whole ****ing topic about this next time somebody says Gearbox content isn't valid.

It is valid. At least as much as Valve wants it to be since they own the franchise. Black Mesa was nuked. Shephard is a character they've said they want to get back to. Race X, as far as I can tell, is canon (they just don't matter). OpFor and Blue Shift, despite being developed by others, are still firmly under the possession of Valve.
 
Great Grizzly said:
I dont remember it being nuked. It was nuked in one of the xpacks but that was made by some other company and is not part of the story line.
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Omg! What's your problem?? It was created by Gearbox, and it is not "on of the xpacks", it is an expansion pack. Don't just toss the word around like some kind of half arsed mod.

It was fully supported by Valve, and they even worked with them on the storyline. Thus, "those xpacks" are perfectly in canon and totally part of the storyline. The site was nuked. Period. It's laidlaw.

Absinthe said:
I swear to God I'm going to make a whole ****ing topic about this next time somebody says Gearbox content isn't valid.

It is valid. At least as much as Valve wants it to be since they own the franchise. Black Mesa was nuked. Shephard is a character they've said they want to get back to. Race X, as far as I can tell, is canon (they just don't matter). OpFor and Blue Shift, despite being developed by others, are still firmly under the possession of Valve.
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Thank you. (At least, partly)
 
SpectreBlofeld said:
That's exactly what they did - copy and paste the exact image of the scientists in front of the Borealis. The reason you can't find the image in the game is because it flashes by very quickly during Mossman's transmission. It's not meant to be stared at and compared to the other photo.

Even if it IS supposed to be the same scientists, what are the chances that they would strike the exact same pose and be wearing the exact same clothing?
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I need a game file or something, how do I know that this wasnt fabricated by the original poster?

As to the gearbox stuff, check out the laidlaw vault, alot of the stuff in the expansions arent canon, but the story was flexible enough to allow them to fit if the needed aris, example: "RaceX was purely a Gearbox creation that doesn't figure at all in my thinking about the world. Understand, they wanted to come up with a set of creatures that would create gameplay they knew how to make. They could have been making an original title or an add-on for some other franchise, and plugged RaceX into that--the reason being that they had gameplay they wanted to explore and needed the freedom of their own race of critters to conduct those experiments with. If Gearbox had kept making HL games, I suppose we might have seen these threads develop. Since BlackOps are not a Gearbox creation per se, but an opportunistic use of existing real-life elements, I don't see how the idea of canon applies to them."

Read the Vault, THIS IS MARC LAIDLAWS OWN WORDS.

Considering what it says above, I would first assume that everything made by external parties does not fit, unless laidlaw would like to OFFICIALLY include them. He hasnt included race x, so its not canon. This same applies to every other bit of story unveiled in the expansion packs, they are gearboxes/whomevers creations.

Heres another tidbit for you two, as said by laidlaw himself: "Even though they [Gearbox] had feedback and guidance from us, they didn't always listen to it, and they steered by their own lights, etc., etc. I wasn't very close to the creation of the expansion packs, and much more concerned with how to move the story forward and open up the universe; so I only take the games created by Valve into consideration when I am working on the story...there are more than enough potential contradictions in our own designs without me worrying about contradictions in the inventions of other developers who were not part of our initial creative meetings."

You need to do some research before you guys start acting like you know a shit about anything.

Edit: Damn, everytime I look at the vault, more information comes up that contradicts you two. :)

Heres another: "We try not to answer questions about the story directly outside of the game--believe what you play, not what you read, is my motto. The waters are murky, unfortunately, when it comes to the Gearbox titles because we did not make them and I don't feel compelled to abide by every story idea they came up with to make their game more fun. That said, it's now public knowledge that you'll be meeting at least one further survivor of Black Mesa in Episode 2. Hope you enjoy it."
 
It's a fake, there is no doubt in my mind.

1. Why would it be relevant even if it WERE real?

2. The ship in the picture is an ocean liner, not a cargo ship. The Borealis is a cargo ship.

3. Even if Valve did cut and paste the images together, they'd have done a better job than that, even if it was only going to be seen for a fraction of a second. They know how people dissect every game file. I could do a better cut/paste job in my ass.
 
DerbyDriver1985 said:
It's a fake, there is no doubt in my mind.

1. Why would it be relevant even if it WERE real?

2. The ship in the picture is an ocean liner, not a cargo ship. The Borealis is a cargo ship.

3. Even if Valve did cut and paste the images together, they'd have done a better job than that, even if it was only going to be seen for a fraction of a second. They know how people dissect every game file. I could do a better cut/paste job in my ass.
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borealis_filmslide_001 in Episode 2 materials GCF.
 
None of that evidence states that Gearbox is not Intellectual Property of Valve. All you've done there is cast further doubt onto the situation, not contradict us at all. Valve have previously accepted the Gearbox titles as being canon. What you've quoted simply states that Laidlaw doesn't intend to bring Gearbox's features back, not that they aren't in canon.

While Gearbox were not "part of the initial creation", they were still guided by Valve through the creation of the expansion packs. And the mere fact that Valve accepts them as Expansion packs and not mods is quite clearly a sign that they are canon.
 
Druckles said:
None of that evidence states that Gearbox is not Intellectual Property of Valve. All you've done there is cast further doubt onto the situation, not contradict us at all. Valve have previously accepted the Gearbox titles as being canon. What you've quoted simply states that Laidlaw doesn't intend to bring Gearbox's features back, not that they aren't in canon.

While Gearbox were not "part of the initial creation", they were still guided by Valve through the creation of the expansion packs. And the mere fact that Valve accepts them as Expansion packs and not mods is quite clearly a sign that they are canon.
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Laidlaw himself said that the idea of "canon" is something that fans came up with and that he doesn't hold to the restrictions and limitations that being "canon" would bind him to.
 
Let's say we start from a position of scepticism regarding Gearbox's story choices, and work forwards.

1. In Blue Shift, Barney Calhoun escapes Black Mesa with a three other scientists (although none of them seem to be the scientists we meet in HL2) and in HL2 it should go without saying that Barney did indeed escape from BM.

2. In OpFor, the G-Man nukes the facility. Although we can't be positive this has happened in the world of HL2, it makes perfect sense. The military's aim was to contain the disaster and eliminate survivors. The idea of not destroying the facility makes no sense, especially after the situation (in terms of the portal storms, etc.) went from bad to worse, numerous times. Nuking it seems like a pretty effective solution.
So the likelihood of the G-Man actually being in the lobby in that vision is, well, unlikely. Also, if we presume that the facility wasn't nuked and the G-Man is actually in the lobby, the room's looking pretty spick and span for a place that suffered an alien invasion, a military massacre and a couple of decades of neglect.

I think it's fair to say that Valve are picking and choosing what they want from what Gearbox did, or perhaps some things merely overlap simply because they do.

As it goes though, I'm pretty much in agreement with SpectreBlowfeld.
 
This mgiht be slightly off-topic, but I just came to the conclusion that the X-ed out face on the BM picture could actually be Magnusson, rather than Breen(Magnusson was Kleiner's rival at Black Mesa, right?) This also explains the labcoat.
 
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