Black ops?

[Jebusy]

How come in opposing force there are black ops people everywhere after a few chatpers? why are you and the rest of the army fighting them? i dont get it. Are you not on the same side? why bother attack them? how come there are so many soldiers in black ops? you would think that since they are meant to be secret they would not have the same if not more men than the army.......

It just seems really stupid to me that the black ops people are there. Can someone clear this up for me? Surely the government didnt send in soldiers to silence the facility and maintain the threat and then send in the black ops to silence the soldiers? You would think they would know that sending soldiers in to black mesa to kill aliens would result in those soldiers knowing about the aliens? Who is guna shut up the seemingly 100's of secret soldiers then? The nuke? well that wouldnt make sense seeing as the black ops are bringing the nuke in themselves on the truck and was all like, be careful, be careful.....and why didnt they nuke from the start? I kinda thought the only reason they didnt was because they did not think it would be so bad and there was no need and then they nuked it because it was getting out of hand but that makes no sense either. If the higher ups knew they had to send in the military to silence, followed by black ops to silence them then obviously they knew they would have to nuke from the start....stupid....
STUPID...STUPID...STUPID

 

[McGooTheWise]

The Black Ops were sent because by the time the soldiers got to Black Mesa the Government knew that it was a lost cause, and that the best way to save the country, or rather, the world, was to blow up the facility. Shepherd's heli is supposedly one of the last to arrive at the facility, and we are also to assume he has been knocked out for an hour or two. In that interval there would have been enough time to send in the ops. Obviously they had the nuke to silence the facility, and since the soldiers are highly trained in combat the ops were ordered to kill them on sight, in case they escape the facility, that way they don't cause a mass panic among civilians.

Then again, I just pulled that out of my ass. Have you completed the game yet?

 

[flamingdts]

The soldiers were sent to contain the problem. The Government, realizing that Black Mesa has failed, and that a resonance cascade has occured, sent soldiers to contain the facility whiles killing all scientists to cover everything up.

In my opinion, I believe the Government realized Black Mesa mucked up big time, and has decided to retrieve any progresses black mesa has had and offer it to aperture (since Black Mesa and Aperture had been competing, and Black Mesa was the first to muck up). To do this they needed to dispatch soldiers to contain the facility, and kill all personels to prevent them from spreading the resonance cascade.

Why did they kill every black mesa scientist and guard? It's obvious because the scientists will either spread the disaster that occured to the world, allowing the world to know about the Government's secret plans, or the scientists will attempt to destroy all important files and technology in Black mesa after realizing how wrong they were to research portal technology. Either way, the scientists and guards pose a threat to the government, and the government won't be allowing the scientists to destroy the years of progress anytime soon.

However, once they realized that the facility cannot be contained, the government had no choice but to destroy black mesa. They sent in special ops for this process, and we all know the original government soldiers (or hazardous environment combat unit, HECU) won't enjoy having their jobs taken away from them. Not to mention, if they find out about the nuke then tons of good soldiers will die, which a lot of the HECU won't allow. This is why black ops were killing everyone on the way.

This is my speculation, could be wrong though.

 

[Jebusy]

The Black Ops were sent because by the time the soldiers got to Black Mesa the Government knew that it was a lost cause, and that the best way to save the country, or rather, the world, was to blow up the facility. Shepherd's heli is supposedly one of the last to arrive at the facility, and we are also to assume he has been knocked out for an hour or two. In that interval there would have been enough time to send in the ops. Obviously they had the nuke to silence the facility, and since the soldiers are highly trained in combat the ops were ordered to kill them on sight, in case they escape the facility, that way they don't cause a mass panic among civilians.

Then again, I just pulled that out of my ass. Have you completed the game yet?

Yeah i have, just there for the first time. What you are saying is the closest i can get to making sense of it, but there is still something weird about the sheer number of black ops men and women that have been sent in to nuke the place and die for the country, i suppose if you really wanted to be picky you could say that even the black ops did not know about the nukes (except for the two driving the truck) and then those two where the only ones of the black ops who escaped ( or maybe the wanted to die for it). They really were portrayed as grunts though and not higher ups. They drove a nuke in on a truck? and they were like oh be careful with that, set that off and the whole place goes up....




I have come to a conclusion that i think is right, i just got it there because i finished. At the end of the game is says gearbox is:...blah blah for the credits and i was like???? gearbox???? So here's what im thinking. Playing the whole game fighting aliens would suck.... it would just suck... so gearbox decided to add hundreds of black ops to play the HECU of this game. doing this has not left a plot hole as such, just kinda makes the story stupid in a way, not to bad though becasue obviously i thought way to much into this. Anyway, In conclusion, The black ops and all the new aliens and stuff where a mistake, i stopped trying to make sense of the story when i realised valve didnt make it. Nothing gman says is significent, the black ops being sent in to silence hecu is stupid.... I see the game more as a mod, or a re-imagining of the hl universe, not surprised shepard has not shown up in the sequels..... Is blue shift any good? its gearbox as well so i might play it cos OF was a good game. I just wont take it too seriously as a follow up to half life? I got OF with BS on steam so i suppose i might as well play it hahaha.

 

[gFrohman]

This is why some do not necessarily consider Opposing Force part of the official Half-Life canon.

 

[Jebusy]

Not to mention, if they find out about the nuke then tons of good soldiers will die, which a lot of the HECU won't allow. This is why black ops were killing everyone on the way.

That clears up some of the mess. Makes sense if you think of the Hecu not allowing some of there soldiers to die.

 

[ríomhaire]

It could be that the Black Ops and HECU were taking orders from different people. There might have been a bit of a conflict in the DoD about what to do with Black Mesa or conflict between elements of the DoD and the government/president. The President could have ordered the cleanup with the HECU and then NSA or some other organisation or even the g-man who disagreed with this move had the Black Ops move in.

It could also be that the HECU were sent in before the full scale of what was happening was known. The HECU was sent originally to deal with the alien infestation, but it was decided to do a complete clean-up and silencing of the facility after they had already arrived and then the Black Ops were sent in. Of course this is somewhat against the hint in the Opposing Force manual where it states that there were rumours of a mission in Black Mesa months before the incident.

 

[Mech Man]

The Black Ops were sent because by the time the soldiers got to Black Mesa the Government knew that it was a lost cause, and that the best way to save the country, or rather, the world, was to blow up the facility. Shepherd's heli is supposedly one of the last to arrive at the facility, and we are also to assume he has been knocked out for an hour or two. In that interval there would have been enough time to send in the ops. Obviously they had the nuke to silence the facility, and since the soldiers are highly trained in combat the ops were ordered to kill them on sight, in case they escape the facility, that way they don't cause a mass panic among civilians.

This.

It could be that the Black Ops and HECU were taking orders from different people. There might have been a bit of a conflict in the DoD about what to do with Black Mesa or conflict between elements of the DoD and the government/president. The President could have ordered the cleanup with the HECU and then NSA or some other organisation or even the g-man who disagreed with this move had the Black Ops move in.

It could also be that the HECU were sent in before the full scale of what was happening was known. The HECU was sent originally to deal with the alien infestation, but it was decided to do a complete clean-up and silencing of the facility after they had already arrived and then the Black Ops were sent in. Of course this is somewhat against the hint in the Opposing Force manual where it states that there were rumours of a mission in Black Mesa months before the incident.

And this. The first wave of troops sent in actually fared pretty well against the confused xen fauna but they soon found themselves out numbered and possibly out gunned against the actual xenian invasion force (alien grunts and controllers and the like.) which is why towards the end of HL1 the player can hear their orders to retreat over a radio. Shephard was supposedly part of the last wave of troops sent in which is probably around about half way through the first games story , and Shephard was knocked out which added an hour or so more which means the point when he wakes up is about 3/5 or 3/4 of the way through the first games course. Around about this point Race X started porting in which caused more confusion. Many soldiers lay stranded and the Black ops had orders to kill everything in the facility. It is unknown whether they knew there would still be stranded soldiers or not but I guess they went by the "orders are orders" priciple. (It is however hinted in conversations that they enjoy killing the soldiers as much as the soldiers enjoyed killing the scientists.)

In short soldiers get a booboo , black ops come to clean up , punch the soldiers in the face and steal their lunch money.

 

[Barnz]

I have come to a conclusion that i think is right, i just got it there because i finished. At the end of the game is says gearbox is:...blah blah for the credits and i was like???? gearbox????.

You're pretty dumb, aren't you? Half-Life in an action game. It's not something you wonder around aimlessly, and explore environment.

As for it's expansions, they follow the same formula, which made Half-Life a successful game. They don't simply let you see the incident from an alternative perspective, but also expand universe/continue (officially) in many ways, like Portal does.

As long as they don't conflict (I didn't see/hear any plotholes to date) with titles done by Valve, they're okay. Black Operatives (not including assassins after Freeman) are not ordered to hunt down anyone, but place a bomb, and leave.

 

[chimpmunk]

This is why some do not necessarily consider Opposing Force part of the official Half-Life canon.

That's stupid: Marc Laidlaw wrote the story for all expansions.

 

[tschumann]

That's stupid: Marc Laidlaw wrote the story for all expansions.

I was under the impression he outlined the expansions but Gearbox made some modifications to what he came up with to suit their plans.

 

[Jebusy]

You're pretty dumb, aren't you? Half-Life in an action game. It's not something you wonder around aimlessly, and explore environment.

As for it's expansions, they follow the same formula, which made Half-Life a successful game. They don't simply let you see the incident from an alternative perspective, but also expand universe/continue (officially) in many ways, like Portal does.

As long as they don't conflict (I didn't see/hear any plotholes to date) with titles done by Valve, they're okay. Black Operatives (not including assassins after Freeman) are not ordered to hunt down anyone, but place a bomb, and leave.

HAHAHAHA.... nope not dumb at all. Reviewers at the time of Op's realease called the developers lazy. I woudnt go that far. I like to think of it as the developers chancing there arm. Gordon Freeman just happened not to see any racex aliens? Or the hundreds of Black ops guys that were added new to the game? There was no indication the black ops in half life 1 were hostile towards the hecu. Gearbox saw this, and exploited it. Explain RaceX? Another set of aliens to add more content to the game? Have not seen them in valve's half life. And i think any inclusion of anything in OF is just to please the fanboys, not an intended part of the story.........

BTW. The reason you dont see any plot holes yet is because valve deliberatly leave there story open because of all the stuff that has happend. I would like to see them try and answer all the questions when they finish the story? They cant. It would sound too....convenient if you know what i mean. example.... taken from wiki.


Race X appeared in the Black Mesa Research Facility only a few hours before Gordon Freeman teleported to Xen and served as one of the main antagonists in Opposing Force.

Only a few hours beforehand? how convenient.


Also taken from wiki...

The distinction between the Hazardous Environment Combat Unit and the Black Ops was not made at first in the original Half-Life. Although the two groups never encountered one another in the game, female assassins were coded to fight on the same side as the Marines. Many players assumed this meant they were working with the military since assassins had no backstory, and as such, many fan-made maps included them fighting alongside each other. It was not until the release of Opposing Force that more insight regarding the Black Ops was revealed.


Hmm I might be "stupid" but it sounds to me like Gearbox made a cock of it trying to fit the black ops as enemies into there game. female assassins were coded to fight on the same side as the marines......hmmmmmm. Again, sounds like Valve had absolutely no idea that the black ops where against the marines.....I know...maybe gearbox made that part up. Mark might have written the story, but I bet he was under pressure from gearbox to include raceX and black ops so the game would be fun

 

[Jebusy]

I was under the impression he outlined the expansions but Gearbox made some modifications to what he came up with to suit their plans.

THANK YOU. Gearbox made some modifications to suit there plans. exactly

 

[Maturin]

Overwiki calls Gearbox ambiguously canon, and that suits me just fine.

 

[Barnz]

They were never coded to fight each other. They're simply in same NPC group (military). By your logic, Bullsquid, or other aliens does not exist in Half-Life 2's universe (which sounds pretty dumb), because they don't show up in game.

 

[Jebusy]

They were never coded to fight each other. They're simply in same NPC group (military). By your logic, Bullsquid, or other aliens does not exist in Half-Life 2's universe (which sounds pretty dumb), because we don't see them.

To Charles, i consider OF to be canon aswell. I just know valve have some regrets with what gearbox have done.


And Seriously. The point I am trying to make, and by the way nobody can prove wrong is that..... In original half life black ops and marines were coded to fight WITH each other. Does that not prove the VALVE thought of them as on the same team and that GEARBOX changed it to suit there needs. I never said coding means anything to the story, But, it does prove that Gearbox changed the story, I think they made it stupid, but that part is my opinion. Sending in hundreds of black ops along with a pickup truck with a nuke in it seems stupid anyway. could have just sent in a few. or drop it from above if they really wanted to silence them. The conflict between the higher ups as an explanation is a good one though. I suppose you could say they never intended to use the nuke except if it got really bad.

I'm just saying what we all know. The ARMY of black ops and the racex aliens where never intended by Valve to be in the black mesa incident, and Gearbox added them, and attempted to explain it by saying there is a conflict between the marines and black ops. The explanation does not work for me though. And adding Racex was the biggest gamerape ive seen in a long time.

 

[flamingdts]

To be honest, only Blue Shift can be used as a canon as of now, since it does not conflict with the original Half Life at all save for some additional NPCs that appear very important in the storyline (Rosenburg). That being said, the Barney in HL2 is not confirmed to be Barney Caulhound of Blue Shift, since Barneys were the names of all security guards. However, Valve has made the situation very flexible, as they can simply claim the Barney in HL2 is indeed the one created by Blue Shift.

In my opinion, if Valve had wanted Opposing Force and Blue Shift to be part of the official Half Life universe, they would've done so by now. Although I'm not ruling out the possibility that Valve might include the plot of these two games in the future, I am going to say that the Barney in blueshift is perfect for the Barney in HL2, but since there has been no hints or official confirmations by Valve that they are the same Barney, we can assume that Valve does not want to include the expansions in their plot, at least not yet.

It should be noted that although Valve has officially confirmed the expansions as Canon, the reason they have not confirmed Barney to be the same Barney in Blue Shift yet is because once they do confirm it, it links Half life to Blue Shift which automatically links to opposing force, making race x canon.

 

[Maturin]

Put more simply, it is all canon except the parts that suck.

And that's the only rule like that there should ever be.

 

[nightlord]

. The point I am trying to make, and by the way nobody can prove wrong is that..... In original half life black ops and marines were coded to fight WITH each other. Does that not prove the VALVE thought of them as on the same team and that GEARBOX changed it to suit there needs. I never said coding means anything to the story, But, it does prove that Gearbox changed the story/ Sending in hundreds of black ops along with a pickup truck with a nuke in it seems stupid anyway. could have just sent in a few. or drop it from above if they really wanted to silence them.

I'm just saying what we all know. The ARMY of black ops and the racex aliens where never intended by Valve to be in the black mesa incident, and Gearbox added them, and attempted to explain it by saying there is a conflict between the marines and black ops.

if they werent coded to fight with each other they would attack each other. they kill the HECU in OF beacuse the black ops are the ones setting off the nuke, and the HECU will be killed if they do. i doesnt prove gearbox changed anything, just that valve didnt do it. if coding means nothing to the story..how can coding prove it changed the story......
the nuke was there to destroy the facility because of what happened...that makes sense to me.....the black ops could have had other reasons to actually go in to black mesa other then just kill everyone.

because valve didnt add raceX doesnt mean anything except they didnt add them. it would be wierd fighting 2 differant alien armies, black ops and hecu AT THE SAME TIME.

 

[Barnz]

Put more simply, it is all canon except the parts that suck.

And that's the only rule like that there should ever be.

lolwut?

This is like saying "damn, I hate antlions Episode One. they shouldn't considered canon".

 

[Mech Man]

I don't get this guy. He makes a thread asking for some one to explain the situation to him (which we did) and then he completely ignores that (mostly true and part speculation upheld with strong evidence) information and starts spewing out his own stuff... Odd.

 

[Maturin]

lolwut?

This is like saying "damn, I hate antlions Episode One. they shouldn't considered canon".

A highly-refined sense of sucking is required, of course. :afro:

But seriously, since the word canon suggests the presence of a storyline and setting independent of you playing a video game (mostly speculation, in this case), and a good story requires some logical continuity and believable aspects, in "canon" there are bullsquids all over City 17, Gordon's face doesn't radically change inbetween games, the patently useless helicopter mines don't exist in their current form, White Forest's radio tower doesn't move around on wheels, hopper mines can jump several hundred feet instead of five to justify the use of so much metal, and the rebels use primarily Soviet Army surplus AK-47s, the proliferation of which made their armed revolt possible.

That sentence is about as lone as I can make it.

 

[jet_porkins]

And adding Racex was the biggest gamerape ive seen in a long time.

Well, was it fun though? Don't all of a sudden be pissed at a developer if the story sucked but the game itself was fun.

Example: KOTOR2. Story is ass. But it's a lot of fun.

 

[ríomhaire]

To Charles, i consider OF to be canon aswell. I just know valve have some regrets with what gearbox have done.


And Seriously. The point I am trying to make, and by the way nobody can prove wrong is that..... In original half life black ops and marines were coded to fight WITH each other. Does that not prove the VALVE thought of them as on the same team and that GEARBOX changed it to suit there needs. I never said coding means anything to the story, But, it does prove that Gearbox changed the story, I think they made it stupid, but that part is my opinion. Sending in hundreds of black ops along with a pickup truck with a nuke in it seems stupid anyway. could have just sent in a few. or drop it from above if they really wanted to silence them. The conflict between the higher ups as an explanation is a good one though. I suppose you could say they never intended to use the nuke except if it got really bad.

I'm just saying what we all know. The ARMY of black ops and the racex aliens where never intended by Valve to be in the black mesa incident, and Gearbox added them, and attempted to explain it by saying there is a conflict between the marines and black ops. The explanation does not work for me though. And adding Racex was the biggest gamerape ive seen in a long time.

In HL1 Vortigaunts are coded to fight with headcrabs. In HL2 they're coded to fight against. In HL1 the gman is coded so that shooting him results in sparks. This does not mean he's made of metal.

 

[tschumann]

the Barney in HL2 is not confirmed to be Barney Caulhound of Blue Shift, since Barneys were the names of all security guards. However, Valve has made the situation very flexible, as they can simply claim the Barney in HL2 is indeed the one created by Blue Shift.

The security guard in Blue Shift isn't Barney Calhoun; he's B. Calhoun. I think in some interview Marc Laidlaw says that they made Gearbox not specifially call him Barney for some reason related to the storyline.

 

[flamingdts]

The security guard in Blue Shift isn't Barney Calhoun; he's B. Calhoun. I think in some interview Marc Laidlaw says that they made Gearbox not specifially call him Barney for some reason related to the storyline.

Really?

Combine Overwiki, nor wikipedia seem to acknowledge this. They still refer to him as Barney Calhoun.

Still, B.Calhoun is still a flexible character for Valve. They can easily throw him in if they wanted to.

Though after doing some research Barney did specifically mention they fought together in black mesa, but Barney never met Gordon in blue shift. So unless Barney implied they both were involved with surviving against alien and army onslaught it leaves a hole in the story.

That being said, back to topic. I think we also need to acknowledge the fact that ironically before Gordon's capture by the Marines he encountered a few black op ninja chicks. That probably shows something.

 

[gFrohman]

Sorry folks - bogus post; I think someone got into my account:flame:

 

[Barnz]

Go, kill yourself.

 

[ríomhaire]

The character in Blue Shift is refered to as B. Calhoun in-game, but I think the manual refers to him as Barney. The credits give Barney's surname as Calhoun in Half-Life 2. It's really not specified which barney from Half-Life is the Barney. He's really just repressentative of every Barney, and trying to pick him out as a specific Half-Life 1 character is futile, as the character, as we know him in Half-Life 2, is the personiffication of the essence of every Barney. Our wiki (which needs work guys, if anyone wants to help) page on Barneyhttp://www.halflife2.net/wiki/index.php/Barney describes the three Barneys sperately.

 

[tschumann]

I've found the writing from Marc Laidlaw I was referring to. It was in the sticky with info received from him.

hi, daniel, i won't be able to clear up much. It was a deliberate decision to have gearbox never call him barney in blue shift, only calhoun. Raising the bar is not a game, so material is presented differently there; manifestations differ in every medium. Gearbox took our barney and did their own best version, but i'm not sure that barney is the same barney i'm picturing when i picture valve's barney. In the time bs was created, there were many barneys. Only gradually have the redundant creature and character types slowly settled into iconic individuals...it's an ongoing process. Gearbox did what was right for their games. Even though they had feedback and guidance from us, they didn't always listen to it, and they steered by their own lights, etc., etc. I wasn't very close to the creation of the expansion packs, and much more concerned with how to move the story forward and open up the universe; so i only take the games created by valve into consideration when i am working on the story...there are more than enough potential contradictions in our own designs without me worrying about contradictions in the inventions of other developers who were not part of our initial creative meetings. I know this is confusing to fans; it's partly a byproduct of the way expansion packs were created, the way they were packaged and published, and also i was very new to this whole concept at the time. It never occurred to me that large chunks of the story would be taken out of our hands, changes made beyond our control, and then have the stuff handed back with some odd unexpected kinks in it. So try not to worry about it, and simply do my best with material directly in my control. However, as to your last question, there was pressure on us to set half-life 2 at black mesa, which a lot of us felt would be creative death; it was important to break new ground. Nuking black mesa was a good way to ensure that we had a way to avoid setting half-life 2 there. You might say i gave the g-man his orders. The whole issue of canon is something the fans came up with. I guess you will be able to identify as canon those story elements we continue to build on and develop and mention repeatedly as the story progresses. Others might fall by the wayside once they've served their purpose. Couldn't you say the same of us all?
Marc laidlaw

And you're right ríomhaire, the Blue Slift manual does call him Barney.

 

[ShadowJustice]

I guess the black ops are killing marines not to silence them but to avoid they interfere with the nuking of black mesa. It's the only plausible explanation.

Anyway I'm not a big fan of op for and I never liked what they did with the black ops. They were much better (and more mysterious) in hl1