BNP support set to rise

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To say someone isn't human is to be in denial about the darkside of the human character. We have to recognise that this is a part of the human character, so we can know enough about it and overcome it to combat it effectively.

Saying they're men from outer space doesn't help.
 
Solaris said:
It's very hard to argue against a racist, and win over an audeince of racists. We distribute leaflets and condem them and say how crap their policies are, but thats niot a debate. A debate would make them look like a legitimate party, which they are not, they're thugs.
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the actual racists are probably the small minority of their supporters. for most, i suspect their 'support' is a protest vote against the political status quo in westminster

We do point out the stupidity, leaflets are distributed which rape their policies to shreds, theres websites explaining why they suck. Theres marches with speakers condeming them, we just don't let them respond and seem legitimate.
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talking about them a lot makes them seem legitimate too. the government regularly rags on them for cheap moral brownie points, and to distract from their own crimes (iraq etc.). plus it seems scarcely a month goes by without some guardian liberal handwringing about how the BNP got a councillor in Bum****town. it's like society as we know it is so fragile and vulnerable it can be totally shattered by a bunch of halfwit nationalist dickheads, in which case we should wonder about the state of our society. if it was in a healthy state, we'd have nothing to fear from these loons
 
Sulkdodds said:
I know I damn well would. Otherwise, what - they're less than human? Nice one, unite-against-nazism-man. Besides, 'human' isn't always a good thing. They weren't robots.
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uhm, I definatly would humanise them (but disagree with everything they stand for and did), my point was it seems Solaris spends alot of time humanising/understanding Hamas (and organisations like Hamas), but bashes/fights the western "versions" which have similar attitudes.
For if we read the Hamas "wish-list", they're no better than MidEast versions of the Neo-Nazi's..
My question was: would Solaris humanise/try to understand the Nazi's/Neo-Nazi's too, or are they excluded from his reasoning because they; came from "the west"? :rolleyes:
Judging his previous posts in this thread, he doesnt..
Its nice he posts the saying; "the only thing for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing", while this apparantly doesnt count for nazi-like organisations on the other side of the world..

But ok, this is not what this topic is about. On the BNP issue, i'd say putting them on TV or providing them media attention is the worst you can do.
 
I think this has already been pointed out, but by blocking them out, you're lending credibility to a lot of their arguments.
 
Solaris said:
They'd be evaluated all the way through the educational system, and hopefully everyone would enjoy learning and thoose that could would be able to be given the chance to go to a factory or university, and they'd still go to further education, becuase they value learning. As everyone will, just some will be better at it than others.
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Hopefully everyone will enjoy learning? ROTFLMAO :D
 
Solaris said:
We're trying to stop the BNP attend meetings, and look legitimate.
To some extent we succeded.
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No, it's childish. It brings them closer together, because they feel like they're being persecuted for their beliefs, and nothing strengthens beliefs better than persecution from outside. Moreover, it reflects badly on this group you seem to be involved with, as they don't appear as serious exponents of the democratic process. It doesn't present them as an intelligent organisation, just dickheads.

UltraProAnti said:
****ing idiot liberals, get a grip
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No, I'm sorry but "****ing idiot liberals" is not fair because it makes it sound like the two things (ie f*cking idiots and liberals) are mutually inclusive. The people that Solaris says are so great are just f*cking idiots. They happen to have liberal tendencies, but more than that, they're just mischievous fools with delusions of grandeur.
Solaris said:
It prevents them from ruining our democracy by taking part in it.
No matter who votes for them, we're not letting them take power.
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Some people would say the same of the Socialist Worker party, for example. I can but presume that this is not something you'd approve of?
As much as I hate to admit it, the BNP have a perfect right to stand, until they breach freedom of speech laws. You can't only endorse freedom of speech as long as it goes your way.
 
The only practical difference between nazies and communists, is that nazies admit they are trying to destroy lives, the communists lie about it.

Remember kids, political extremes are bad.
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Your calling me a Nazi? Would I ****ing murder six million people?
That's too far.

Putting Al Qaida in a negative spotlight all over the news hasnt exactly "decreased" the amount of people supporting them has it?
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No becuase suicide bombers don't look at it rationally, they hardly sit there having a hefty debate, looking at all the facts and figures, and then decide to blow themselves up. They do it becuase there life has been destroyed, they're family blown up, they're so angry they have no time for rational.

I'm not saying BNP enjoyed it, just saying these violant tactics and media offensives dont really help, they tend to make matters worse..
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So you think throwing eggs at the BNP gives them more support than letting them attend council meetings, have marches through towns, and display big banners on chimneys as you come into town?

I think this has already been pointed out, but by blocking them out, you're lending credibility to a lot of their arguments.
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They're not blocked out, their was a love music hate racism festival here just last year, they're was big speechs condeming the BNP, literature given out, music played. People go door to door campainging explaining why people shouldn't vote BNP. They put leaflets through doors, advertise in the media ect. They also burn Nazi leaflets, block Nazi marches, pull down Nazi posters, through eggs at Nazi councillors.

No, it's childish. It brings them closer together, because they feel like they're being persecuted for their beliefs, and nothing strengthens beliefs better than persecution from outside. Moreover, it reflects badly on this group you seem to be involved with, as they don't appear as serious exponents of the democratic process. It doesn't present them as an intelligent organisation, just dickheads.
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The idea is. People get the Anti Nazi Leauge literature, accpet the arguments ect. Think "These guys make some sense", then they see the ANL blocking a Nazi march, and think "Hell, I'm not alone in hating the BNP, I'll persuade my freinds to hate them too".....

Some people would say the same of the Socialist Worker party, for example. I can but presume that this is not something you'd approve of?
As much as I hate to admit it, the BNP have a perfect right to stand, until they breach freedom of speech laws. You can't only endorse freedom of speech as long as it goes your way.
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Theres a few things I've come up with to justify this.

  • Would you rather break a principle? Or have a repeat of the holocaust?
  • I am not the state, I would not support the state stopping these people, however the BNP are citizens, if they have the right to demonstrate, I have the right to counter-demonstrate, if they begin to take power, it is my duty as a citizen to stop them.
 
Solaris said:
The idea is. People get the Anti Nazi Leauge literature, accpet the arguments ect. Think "These guys make some sense", then they see the ANL blocking a Nazi march, and think "Hell, I'm not alone in hating the BNP, I'll persuade my freinds to hate them too".....
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No. That's not what you said. Handing out literature is fine. Throwing eggs at them to stop them attending meetings - as you so proudly stated they do - is quite another.


Solaris said:
Theres a few things I've come up with to justify this.
  • Would you rather break a principle? Or have a repeat of the holocaust?
  • I am not the state, I would not support the state stopping these people, however the BNP are citizens, if they have the right to demonstrate, I have the right to counter-demonstrate, if they begin to take power, it is my duty as a citizen to stop them.
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1. As racist and repellent as the BNP quite patently are, they are not - and I really can't emphasise that enough - plotting a genocide. They're far too stupid for that. Their gaining power is not bubbling up plans in their minds of a new holocaust. Quite how you went from step A to step Z, I'd be fascinated to hear.
2. You have the right to counter-demonstrate. This right does not extend to lobbing eggs at them. If it resulted in a fight, yoiu would be in the wrong for antagonising them. Throwing eggs at people is not legitimate political demonstration, nor is it the slightest bit intelligent. Childish and inflammatory - yes. Intelligent and reasonable - no.
 
Solaris said:
Your calling me a Nazi? Would I ****ing murder six million people?
That's too far.
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the USSR killed 10 million, China killed way more, Cambodia killed a lot aswell.
 
Solaris said:
No becuase suicide bombers don't look at it rationally, they hardly sit there having a hefty debate, looking at all the facts and figures, and then decide to blow themselves up. They do it becuase there life has been destroyed, they're family blown up, they're so angry they have no time for rational.
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You have NO idea what goes on in the mind of a suicide bomber, and no idea why they do it.
You really believe they do it because they lost a family member or loved one?
Did the 9/11 pilots lose loved ones?..
In fact most of the suicide bombers choose to become this because they are indoctrinated, not because they have families lost etc. Sure maybe a few will, but the majority of extremists who become suicide bombers simply have indoctrinated feelings of hatred along with a promise to go to heaven with a set of virgins to ****...

Also Al Qaida DID think rationally, they did NOT act on "emotion" or irrational at all.
Them being displayed on TV gave a whole group of otherwise regular frustrated islamic people a patsy, something to blame-> join up with Al Qaida or admire it/be inspired by it.
For you then see a whole chain of copy-cat groups with similar fundementalists, inspired by Al Qaida's actions...

Solaris said:
So you think throwing eggs at the BNP gives them more support than letting them attend council meetings, have marches through towns, and display big banners on chimneys as you come into town?
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Actually yes, i do. Since now your putting the violent unreasonable acts on your side, instead of getting into a discussion with these people, which will destroy them.
Adopting cavemen tactics puts them into a stronger position then they were before...
 
On a still leaving way, just waiting for a bus and thought I'd check up.

I just saw a BNP canvasing car with a trailer behind saying vote BNP and a union jack. Inside were 5 of the biggest skin head thugs you've ever seen.

"Excuse me sirs, but I think your policies are neo-naz-punch to the head-i"

No thanks, you wanna have a try. Stern please wtf pwn vince about the suicide bombers ;)

Sorry, to have to post after I left but I'm pissed off.
 
Solaris said:
On a still leaving way, just waiting for a bus and thought I'd check up.

I just saw a BNP canvasing car with a trailer behind saying vote BNP and a union jack. Inside were 5 of the biggest skin head thugs you've ever seen.

"Excuse me sirs, but I think your policies are neo-naz-punch to the head-i"

No thanks, you wanna have a try. Stern please wtf pwn vince about the suicide bombers ;)

Sorry, to have to post after I left but I'm pissed off.
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lol? So the best way to reduce support for BNP is by attacking them like mindless barbarians? Right, LOL
The best way to fight them is to debate them, not throw crap at them.

If you're the "first to draw blood" you're making them icons for others.. -> why not make them look like mindless barbarians instead? :P

And pwn me on suicide bombers? Considering your "explanation on their motives" LOL.
I'm not a suicide bomber expert, but if you read a little on the motives/backgrounds of suicide bombers, you'll see they are usually not mindless psychopaths, or depressed fanatical individuals as you might think.

READ THIS

Profile of a bomber

A common reaction to a suicide bomber is to assume that he or she was motivated by despair, and probably came from a poor, neglected segment of society. Both President George W. Bush and the Dalai Lama have made this claim. However, anthropologist Scott Atran found in a 2003 study that this is not a justifiable conclusion. A recently published paper by Harvard University Professor of Public Policy Alberto Abadie "cast doubt on the widely held belief that terrorism stems from poverty, finding instead that terrorist violence is related to a nation's level of political freedom." [4] More specifically this is due to the transition of countries towards democratic freedoms. "Intermediate levels of political freedom are often experienced during times of political transitions, when governments are weak, political instability is elevated, so conditions are favorable for the appearance of terrorism" Quote Original Paper.

From 2003 to 2004, women were more frequently involved in suicide attacks in the Middle East and elsewhere. In Messengers of Death: Female Suicide Bombers, Clara Beyler writes that women have channeled the frustration stemming from their role in society into ruthless behavior. [5]. This can demonstrate strength and power in societies where women have a submissive role. That women have become more involved in suicide bombings makes it more difficult to profile a suicide bomber.

Some suicide bombers are educated, with college or university experience, and come from middle class homes. Most suicide bombers do not show signs of psychopathology. Indeed, leaders of the groups who perpetrate these attacks search for individuals who can be trusted to carry out the mission; those with mental illnesses are not ideal candidates. They often find solace in the ritualistic communion found in extremist circles, which are often headed by charismatic individuals looking for new recruits.

It has also been observed that some suicide bombers were coerced or possibly deceived about the nature of the operation. Some counter-intelligence specialists believe that a number of the September 11th hijackers may not have known that they were embarking on a suicide mission. Cases of Middle Eastern suicide bombers being chained or tied to the steering wheel of vehicles carrying bombs or remotely detonating the said vehicles with drivers inside, and also of outfitting developmentally disabled individuals (specifically those with Down's syndrome) with suicide bomb vests, are hotly debated issues.
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Whether their cause is "right or wrong", is not the issue; They are manipulated to believe this martyrdom and that they will be rewarded for it.
Especially since often children are involved...
In general it has little to do with mindless despair Solaris.. :P
 
Spicy Tuna said:
I like what they have to say about Radical Muslims.
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They say that there is a worldwide conspiracy amongst Muslims to spread by coming to England and raping white girls. :rolling:
 
Spicy Tuna should have been permabanned anyway? Did he moan to Munro just like everyone else to come back, or what?
 
They'll probably surface about 3am or something in a definitivel form if they're anything like the normal elections.
 
Probably depends which constituency you're in.

There's no voting going on here (I think I voted sometime last year actually)
 
North-West is before Midnight, except my town- Burnley, where their having it at 11am tomorrow so the BNP don't show up drunk and start punching people again.
 
gick said:
They say that there is a worldwide conspiracy amongst Muslims to spread by coming to England and raping white girls. :rolling:
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okay thats a bit awkward :rolling:


but they do make some good points imo
 
I agree with non-violence against the BNP, in fact by and large, most people my age consider the BNP a hilarious joke - even more funny than the conservatives! :D
 
gick said:
Such as?
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Muslim leaders say Islam is a religion of peace,but thats just words
People should look what happening around the world in arab nations.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=BNP


I didnt watch all of them,and Im sure they stronlgy overstrecth certain issues
BUT,the religion of Islam itself I cannot agree with, just like anyother religion.its stupid.The spokes person also said that Christians where once the same,but they adapted to the modern wolrd.which is true imo.
 
ComradeBadger said:
I agree with non-violence against the BNP, in fact by and large, most people my age consider the BNP a hilarious joke - even more funny than the conservatives! :D
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They were funny, but now that they've doubled their number of councillors - well, it makes me a sad panda.
F*ck this, I keep threatening to run away to France, but if I wanted to escape this, France isn't right either because it's racist too. Even moreso. *Sighs*
 
I still hold out hope..

Bear in mind Local elections have a low turnout.. particularly among the best type of people - Students!
 
Eugh, I just had an extremely long debate with some guy on the subject of "white pride"



Think i'm gona go hurt something.
 
Wait, how can a debate such as that be 'extremely long'? D:
 
Good sense and reason takes time to penetrate the thick skulls of the ignorant racist neanderthals.
 
Indeed.



Well you would have thought so. But it just went round in circles. I defeated his arguements, he says "your wrong!"


Fun for all!
 
Spicy Tuna said:
Muslim leaders say Islam is a religion of peace,but thats just words
People should look what happening around the world in arab nations.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=BNP
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Oh c'mon, Islam is a peaceful religion, you cant hold a religion accountable for the extremists in a religion.
The person with the loudest voice gets the power, and the person with the most extreme views has the hreatest need to shout to be heard
 
Llama said:
Oh c'mon, Islam is a peaceful religion, you cant hold a religion accountable for the extremists in a religion.
The person with the loudest voice gets the power, and the person with the most extreme views has the hreatest need to shout to be heard
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if we get rid of all religions,it will be harder to cloud peoples minds.
 
So you would say that Arabic people are bad and their religion should be destroyed?
 
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