Canada's Thwarted 9/11 Thread [New Details Emerging]

[K e r b e r o s]

This is from a friends Live Journal. I do not take credit for what he said on the topic or discovered, but needless to say, this, alongside CptStern's entry about the terrorists plotting to decapitate the Canadian PM is pretty disturbing:

Canada's Thwarted 9/11
Everyone's heard by now that a terror plot was broken up in Canada late this past week--something that had it come off, might have well been on the scale of 9/11.

Twelve arrests, more coming... and the hand wringing has already begun, with a liberal and politically correct media machine already in full damage control mode, desperate to paint this as something other than it obviously is--that despite Canada's reputation for tolerance, inclusiveness and multiculturalism, as well as it's anti-US stance on many issues, the nation is still a target for terrorists and that ignoring/appeasing the problem of Islamic radicalism and being nice to these people doesn't work.

***********************************************

Broad Strata

First, read this article from the Toronto Sun:

In investigators' offices, an intricate graph plotting the links between the 17 men and teens charged with being members of a homegrown terrorist cell covers at least one wall. And still, says a source, it is difficult to find a common denominator...

RCMP Assistant Commissioner Mike McDonell said yesterday the suspects are all Canadian residents and the majority are citizens. "They represent the broad strata of our community. Some are students, some are employed, some are unemployed," he said.

Yeah. Right. A "broad strata". Folks, here's your "broad strata"--the names of the suspects who supposedly have "no common denominator":


Fahim Ahmad, 21, Toronto

Zakaria Amara, 20, Mississauga

Asad Ansari, 21, Mississauga

Shareef Abdelhaleen, 30, Mississauga

Qayyum Abdul Jamal, 43, Mississauga

Mohammed Dirie, 22, Kingston

Yasim Abdi Mohamed, 24, Kingston

Amin Mohamed Durrani, 19, Toronto

Steven Vikash Chand alias Abdul Shakur, 25, Toronto

Ahmad Mustafa Ghany, 21, Mississauga

Saad Khalid, 19, of Eclipse Avenue, Mississauga


Well, gee. I can't put my finger on it, but they sure seem to have *something* in common. Wonder what that could be?

*****************************************************

No Common Denominators?

Oh, nothing much. Just that they're all Muslim. That they're all male. That they all attended the same mosques, taught by the same hard-line hate-spewing imams. Or that most of them went to a terror training camp.

No, clearly, there's no 'common denominators' here. And yes, a dozen radical, beard-and-robe-wearing male muslims surely do represent a 'broad strata' of society.

My gods... are people so concerned with political correctness and bending over backwards to *not* offend or call out the evils and intolerance or what is seen as a minority and disadvantaged group that we're completely unwilling to point out the ridiculously obvious? Or are people simply terrified to admit that their supposedly more enlightened societies could spawn such homegrown terrorists, that maybe hypertolerance, political correctness and multiculturalism isn't working and aren't the virtues they've always extolled them as?

***********************************************

9/11 in Canada, a series of attacks that could have killed hundreds and wounded thousands if they came off. This despite Canada's well-known multiculturalism, inclusion, hypertolerance, welcoming of immigrants and opposition to the US on Iraq and many other issues. So with this latest example, will everyone please understand... these guys are not simply *our* enemies; they're the sworn enemies of democracy, of liberty and freedom itself. They don't want to simply be left alone; they want the entire world bowing down five times a day towards Mecca with our heads held there under their holy boots, consider all others infidels who need to be forcibly converted or killed. And despite the protests of many, they *aren't* simply a deviant few; these guys are all too mainstream in many areas of the world, and do seek to export their radicalism to other countries. Closing our eyes to them and pretending they aren't there or are only someone else's problem doesn't work. Appeasing them doesn't work either. It's past time everyone recognize this for what it is, and stand up to it, shine a bright spotlight on what is increasingly a very aggressive and dangerous form of fascism and stop hiding behind political correctness and multiculturalism; realize that these people and this movement has to be fought.

And as an aside, folks... those of you who are up in arms over NSA data mining of phone records as an invasion of privacy and a gross abuse of civil liberties (which it isn't on either count) might want to look at how this plot was in part uncovered--by warrantless monitoring of their internet communications. Many lives were saved, a terrorist cell was detected and a potentially catastrophic attack was broken up by methods quite similar to what the NSA is doing. Please remember that next time you feel the urge to bash the Bush administration for that program.



More along these lines here: http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=MmRjMThlNDA0YmNmZWU1NzM4MGQ0NmVkOTUwMzExZTA=

*****That Sums up my friends post*****

Any new details emerge, any discussion you which to add ... you know the word:

DISCUSS

 

[CptStern]

and the hand wringing has already begun, with a liberal and politically correct media machine already in full damage control mode, desperate to paint this as something other than it obviously is--that despite Canada's reputation for tolerance, inclusiveness and multiculturalism, as well as it's anti-US stance on many issues, the nation is still a target for terrorists and that ignoring/appeasing the problem of Islamic radicalism and being nice to these people doesn't work.

liberal media? politically correct media machine? please stop sensationalising and splintering this issue by inserting rightwing/leftwing bias were none exists ..this is not the US. You have no clue as to what the targets represent, you have no clue as to their motivations because again the media doesnt know anything either ..what you're hearing is the prosecutions side of things


oh and you picked sources from the entire political spectrum of canada so I dont know how you can say it's the "liberal media"

globeandmail: left wing
toronto star: centrist/left of centre
national post: right wing sesationalist kneejerkers (they're the ones that broke that false Iranian armbands story)


oh and dont ignore the fact that the war on terror (an utter abysmal failure) brought terrorism to our doorstep ..we have you to thank for that ..so does Spain and the UK

 

[K e r b e r o s]

The War on Terrorism is not what caused this. You have the burden of proof on your shoulders for that statement.

Plus, I'll reiterate. When on Palestinian Authority TV, they say they will conquer the west ... they mean, yes, even Canada. This *is* why the war on terrorism should be fought. Your country was hardly involved in this conflict, and they're still getting targeted. From what I hear, this is'int the last of it.

This is the radicalism you must face, either now, or later. The question is, what will you do about it?

 

[CptStern]

here's my proof:

before war on terror, total attacks by muslim extremists on canadians: 0


what will I do about it? perhaps I should round every muslim and shoot him on sight. ..here's an idea.. why dont you stop trying to use my country to further your political POV ..this is NOT the US, it is an isolated incident that shocked the entire muslim community (including the families of those accused)

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Here's my proof that our war had nothing to do with it:

Before 9/11, total attacks by Muslim extremists on Americans: 0 [ Well, a few but ...]

what will I do about it?

No, don't shoot them on the spot. No, don't send them off to Gitmo for imprisonment. Identify these terrorists, and save lives. That's all that matters. To further add to your comments and mine, there are better ways to handle these things besides mass deportations and massacres affected from the rage of lost ones and betrayal. As far as I'm concerned beyond what else I have to say, you dodged the bullet. Canada's the first country to score a victory against 9/11 plotters. The first real blow. We're learning. Your country learned what ours did not. And I'm proud of my neighbor.

Also, I'm not trying to use your countries tragedy as a launch pad for my own political spectrums.

I'm just trying to remind you that, with or without us, your 9/11 would be an eventuallity. So will Germanys, Frances, Polands, etc.

My own personal aside:

I knew Canada was next on they're list, and the fact I was right does not excite me. I remember I told you it was going to happen. And I do believe, right after the attacks in London. I told you on this very forum, don't you remember? The question I'm sure your asking is ... why Canada?

It's because the Canadian people and government were'nt initially expecting it. To strike terror on every piece, every element of western soil; thats they're goal. It's also because 'they' could, and probably assumed it would be carried out and that they could get away with it. THAT's the power they respect, and not a cruise missle. Lastily, its also because your countries heavy liberalism and intellectual freedoms underminded Bin Ladens new occult religion with its Takfir Doctrines.

Wether or not your democratic. Wether or not your west. So long as you break the tenets of they're extremist Religion (which can no longer be associated with Islam anymore, Bin Ladens made his own), you automatically become a target. I'm sorry your country has had to deal with this, but then again, I'm proud to know that when evil surfaced, your country beat it.

You scored a victory in the past week, unintentionally, and almost completely uninvolved. Congradulations!

 

[kirovman]

Here's my proof that our war had nothing to do with it:

Before 9/11, total attacks by Muslim extremists on Americans: 0

WTC 1993? To name but one of many.

 

[gick]

^USS Cole, US embassy in Nigeria.....

 

[jverne]

Here's my proof that our war had nothing to do with it:

Before 9/11, total attacks by Muslim extremists on Americans: 0



No, don't shoot them on the spot. No, don't send them off to Gitmo for imprisonment. There are better ways to handle these things, and as far as I'm concerned, you dodged the bullet. Canada's the first country to score a victory against 9/11 plotters. I'm proud of my neighbor.

Also, I'm not trying to use your countries tragedy as a launch pad for my own political spectrums.

I'm just trying to remind you that, with or without us, your 9/11 would be an eventuallity. So will Germanys, Frances, Polands, etc.

My own personal aside:

I knew Canada was next on they're list. I told you on this very forum, don't you remember? The question is ... why Canada?

It's because you were'nt expecting it. To strike terror on every piece of western soil; thats they're goal. Its because 'they' could. THAT's power to them, not a cruise missle. It's also because your countries heavy liberalism and intellectual socialist behaviors unintentionally painted a red and white target on your backs.

Wether or not your democratic. Wether or not your west. So long as you break the tenets of they're extremist Religion (which can no longer be associated with Islam anymore, Bin Ladens made his own), you automatically become a target.

shut up kerberos, of course it was the americans who started all this shit! tell me what was the reason behind 9/11? US bombing civilian targets, US arrogance in the middle east,... it was totaly US fault and like the war in afganistan wasn't enough...NOOO...you had to go into iraq. and i belive there was some muslim terrorist atacks on us targets (that ship, and an embassy, forgot where...somwhere in africa)!

what exactly are you trying to do?

 

[Ennui]

Ouch.

Kerberos, I think you generally pretend to understand things you don't at all.

 

[DeusExMachina]

shut up kerberos, of course it was the americans who started all this shit! tell me what was the reason behind 9/11? US bombing civilian targets, US arrogance in the middle east,... it was totaly US fault and like the war in afganistan wasn't enough...NOOO...you had to go into iraq. and i belive there was some muslim terrorist atacks on us targets (that ship, and an embassy, forgot where...somwhere in africa)!

what exactly are you trying to do?

What exactly are you trying to do? It seems you know about as much as Kerberos.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

shut up kerberos, of course it was the americans who started all this shit!

So what your saying is that America caused all this?

So now, is the victim of a slaying more responible for it then the murderer who commits it? I believe not. Thats not a very reasonable arguement to stance yourself on. Additionally, consider that we have the term 'murderer' for someone who commits 'it'.

Dare I say logic left this forum with reasoning, patience, and perhaps a little bit of brotherhood and respect? I know some of you will lack the patience for my mistakes, but we owe ourselves and our fellow forum goers a little bit more acknowledging and kinship then we may have given ourselves in the past. How else will we understand each other, or teach ourselves that patience actually pays off when we're too busy grabbing at the next response?

US bombing civilian targets, US arrogance in the middle east,

US Bombing Civilian targets? Surely your ignoring the fact our targets were'nt the civilians at all, and for beginners I'm just assuming you suggested our current and past operations in Iraq. We openly state and mean not to kill civilians, and when it happens, yes I agree with you all. It's disgusting. It's horrible. But they're mistakes. Not intentions.

Need I remind you that there are worse then us? Try the people who were getting ready to attack Canada for that matter, and woe for this situation, we're actually trying to place the blame on the right people and punish our own soldiers for they're lack of discretion, empathy, initiative, and sense of humanity when on the field of battle.

Are we also ignoring the fact Abu-Masab Al-Zarqwai who was even threatened by the Iraqi Resistance effort with beheading if he did not leave the country for bombing they're civilians? I'm sorry to bring this back up, but comparitively they're are worse. Oh, and he takes 'pride' in his killings. I however, much like my fellow citizens, don't take pride in the murdering of innocents; which we also want those murderers punished, and are not afraid to ask that if our own commited atrocities that they too be punished.

Your looking for a scapegoat am I wrong? US arrogance is'int to blame. It's everyone's arrogance now. If the terrorists believe Canada a valid target, rest assured, they're will be more attempts like this and possibly more devastating in nature. Oh, and by the way ... last I checked, our 'stupid' in foreign policy that causes us so much irk and ill was ...

We do not negotiate with terrorists. Oh, and we're allies with Israel (foreign policy?) We were targeted for such reasons. Before 9/11, and after. I would touch on other reasons but then it would just sound like an excusing rebuttal, and I'm not looking to excuse our atrocities and mishaps.

it was totaly US fault and like the war in afganistan wasn't enough...NOOO...you had to go into iraq.

Absurd. I do not represent 'this' country, but only one of its citizens. Though my country has invaded Iraq, I never went with them, as I'am a citizen, not a soldier. I even chose not to go over there, or serve even now. I never supported the bombings that killed civilians, past, present, or what might be our very deadly future. Spare me of that, 'guilt by association' mindset, and consider I'am not out to get you.

For this ... You and I are guilty for nothing except being born in the west, and thats what they think, justifies they're Holy Wars.

Because we're so immoral. Because were so capable at questioning the tennets of they're religion, they believe were dangerous 'sinners' and deserve to be killed. Nonsense. We're just dangerous to they're power, and are worried that if enough people start thinking for themselves, they're religion will become into a major state of decay.

what exactly are you trying to do?

Remind you that your next. Possibly. Maybe. Perhaps. But that does'nt matter anymore. They're Jihad has been declared, and unfortunately, its always been the innocent first the guilty last. Your a part of the west that war has been said to be against. You are a target, just like me. Might not be the proper rationale, but its pretty fair to say that now that ... Canada of all places, has had a terrorist plot working against it. I can't say Canada's victory will be translated for everyone ... and don't forget.

We're overdue for our own attacks.

there was some muslim terrorist atacks on us targets (that ship, and an embassy, forgot where...somwhere in africa)!

Yes, yes, I forgot about those. Thank you. The bombing of the World Trade Center in 1993 ... what was that caused by?

We were'nt occupying Iraq in that time like we are now ... so to speak. We were'nt in Afghanistan with our troops. They're was the Gulf War, but hardly enough to justify a return response from radical militant seperatists who no longer follow the tennets of Islam, or the Prophet Mohammed.

Murder does not justify murder. And I will tell you guys once again, if its Canada, then it could be you to. Don't take this as fear mongering, but take this as a warning and just stay alert. Who knows if they're are other attacks in the making.

www.pmw.org.il

This is not a joke, or a political scandal. This is a war, and we must attempt to preserve judgement amungst ourselves. Stay rational folks. The only way to protect ourselves now is to live like we have been, but, on every moment or so, keep an eye open.

I'm not saying be paranoid, but I'am saying ... be cautious. These attacks were likely to occur in CptStern's area, our own forum member. Let's respect this situation by not bashing each other, but being thankful we did'nt loose someone here.

 

[JNightshade]

Murder does not justify murder.

Funny, that's the one thing you've said that I actually agree with :|

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Ouch.

Kerberos, I think you generally pretend to understand things you don't at all.

I got that impression here.

 

[gick]

This reminds me of Kerberos' V For Vendetta thread where he posted a load of bullshit from "a friend's" blog. In future, please post the link so that we know you arent making it up, K?

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Before we reinforce barbs of a personal nature [gick], I'd really like to ask you Marksman if, beyond pointing out where 'Kerberos' made a sloppy error ... where else am I wrong?

Do you think I'm right as to why they chose Canada? Why they wanted to attack Canada, anyway?

Let's stay focused on the current discussion. Listen, the Internet is full of creeps. And I just can't trust some people out there.

http://kipaji.livejournal.com/76956.html?nc=4&style=mine

There is his Live Journal entry. Enjoy.

This reminds me of Kerberos' V For Vendetta thread where he posted a load of bullshit from "a friend's" blog.

I'd like to remind you that treating people disrespectfully is not what most would consider fair, or right. The blog has been posted, and you can read *that* aswell. In the event it becomes too hot a topic, I will remove the link entirely. I don't like to personally involve people in my life, or friendships.

 

[marksmanHL2 :)]

Did not really mean to offend. Its just I got the impression you tend to pick and choose your sources and what have you to make an overall unreasonable arguement.

Like saying:
"Here's my proof that our war had nothing to do with it:

Before 9/11, total attacks by Muslim extremists on Americans: 0"

Had you really thought out both sides of the arguement and known your history on the subject in hand you would not have posted that.


When trying to prove your own theories, one of your best bets is to look for contradictory proof. And there is plenty of it.

"Murder does not justify murder" - True, then why invade whole countries on the basis of it. Hence murdering thousands more...



(I lack debateing skill and I am extremely tired. I feel I will have succeeded if the above post is readable, let alone it make sense..)

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Did not really mean to offend. Its just I got the impression you tend to pick and choose your sources and what have you to make an overall unreasonable arguement.

Look, its difficult for anyone not to. Oh, and I'm not excusing myself either. We're all afraid in some element or another to be wrong, its just part of our own perception of 'social acceptence and security'.

But beyond that, I'd like to thank where you pointed out my mistakes, and don't worry, you're more then coherent enough to understand. :thumbs:

"Murder does not justify murder" - True, then why invade whole countries on the basis of it. Hence murdering thousands more...

I'd also like say that I never argued or excused the invasion of Iraq as the correct 'next step', or that it justifies or stands for what the war on terror happens to be about. Or at least, never intended to.

But to continue on with what you said; your right. That statement does have its own social backlash. And yet, I must wonder ... how much murder will it take? It did'nt take any for Canada. Looks like we won't need any if we follow its example.

 

[theotherguy]

fighting a war on "terror" is impossible. Terror is a noun, an emotion, and you can't really fight it. Terrorists can exist in any nation, for any reason. To attack and stop terrorism you need to take away terrorist motivation. This means to stop attacking and exploiting the middle east, to put a leash or at least some political barriers on Israel, and to decrease our reliance on their oil.

Security plays a role, but you're attacking terrorists at their destination. War will never work because it simply incites more terrorism. The only way to decrease terror is to promote education and economic benifits to the people of the middle east through peaceful means and to simply pull all military forces out of the region.

But you always will have terrorists, just as you will always have theives.

Although its not surprising that Canada got attacked, since they were supposed to be unexpecting of it, I have no doubts that america played more than a small role in inciting this and past attempts.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

Haha, that's great.

Our country is almost attacked by terrorists and you use that as an excuse to demonize American democrats.

**** you.


Ever heard of the War in Afghanistan? Because your "friend" sure as hell hasn't.
We aren't "ignoring" or "appeasing" terrorists. Tell that to our war dead.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

fighting a war on "terror" is impossible. Terror is a noun, an emotion, and you can't really fight it. Terrorists can exist in any nation, for any reason. To attack and stop terrorism you need to take away terrorist motivation. This means to stop attacking and exploiting the middle east, to put a leash or at least some political barriers on Israel, and to decrease our reliance on their oil.

You can fight fear and terror by choosing not be frightened or terrorified. Your right. Both are emotions, and participate in mans most common irrationalities.

And, though terrorists can exist in any nation from any form of prejudice and bigotry, they cannot be compared to thieves in element or nature, except in one respect. It's not the value of objects that drives them to steal. It's the value of western socialism that drives them to kill. 'They', are those that belong under the Takfir doctrines of a now often demonized religion, but its no longer Islam that they follow.

You can arrest or kill the individuals responsible for the harming of innocents, and that too, is another way to fight the men behind the fear. They're not ghosts, because as I was taught, they're is no such thing.

Although its not surprising that Canada got attacked, since they were supposed to be unexpecting of it, I have no doubts that america played more than a small role in inciting this and past attempts.

You dont understand the nature of the beast, do you? If your in a country that violates they're seperatist tennets, they hate you because of they're 'mystery force'.

What was the attack on Theo Van Gogh about? He was killed, supposed to have been through decapitation and not gunfire, for doing what? Using his right to speech and press from his own home country to report on the abuses commited to Muslim women through Islam.

He was killed for that. People have died over cartoons. There is a pattern here. With or without 'our war', they've been doing this for years.

War will get us somewhere, but I don't believe we're raging it in the right way. You can fight a war in a different manor or respect other then Tanks and Infantry. Perhaps opinion, but pacifism and apathy will provide only immediate defeat to our own diverse senses of identity and society.

Will we surrender to the Christians next?

Our country is almost attacked by terrorists and you use that as an excuse to demonize American democrats.

I beg your pardon, but if your referencing to my friends Journal than I must say, those comments are not my claim. As far as I recall, I never targeted American Democrats, as this was not this threads discussion.

Ever heard of the War in Afghanistan? Because your "friend" sure as hell hasn't.
We aren't "ignoring" or "appeasing" terrorists. Tell that to our war dead.

Nobody here has accused your country of not fighting, but remember, your participation in this fight was a choice.
Your dead, your participation, was nethire questioned nor mocked.

 

[gick]

I'd like to remind you that treating people disrespectfully is not what most would consider fair, or right. The blog has been posted, and you can read *that* aswell. In the event it becomes too hot a topic, I will remove the link entirely. I don't like to personally involve people in my life, or friendships.

Yeah, sorry bout that.

Late night + no tea + exams = grumpy Gick. I do apologize.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

It's no problem. I'd like to apologize for being so beligerant. It's just, factors for everyone I guess. Though tea does sound good right now ...

 

[JNightshade]

Bah. Tbh, you're leagues better than Gh0st

 

[Mechagodzilla]

The moral your blog gleaned from the attempted attack was that my "liberal" nation was "ignoring/appeasing the problem of Islamic radicalism and being nice to these people."

It simultaneously stated that "liberals" in the "media" were trying to cover up that "obvious" opinion.

So I repeat:

**** you.

**** you and your facile attempt to exploit a threat to Canadian lives as a weapon of fear against your political opponents.

**** you for claiming that my nation is made up of cowards and friends of criminals when our soldiers die in your least botched terror war.

**** you and your scaremongering.

I'll have none of it.

 

[CptStern]

Before we reinforce barbs of a personal nature [gick], I'd really like to ask you Marksman if, beyond pointing out where 'Kerberos' made a sloppy error ... where else am I wrong?

Do you think I'm right as to why they chose Canada? Why they wanted to attack Canada, anyway?

hmmm could it be because THEY'RE CANADIAN? no that could be it could it?

Let's stay focused on the current discussion. Listen, the Internet is full of creeps. And I just can't trust some people out there.

http://kipaji.livejournal.com/76956.html?nc=4&style=mine

There is his Live Journal entry. Enjoy.

umm a live journal entry by an american self-described neo-conservative who can pretty much be anyone? ...remind me again how I'm supposed to take this as fact when he makes some glaring factual errors

I'd like to remind you that treating people disrespectfully is not what most would consider fair, or right. The blog has been posted, and you can read *that* aswell. In the event it becomes too hot a topic, I will remove the link entirely. I don't like to personally involve people in my life, or friendships.

no, you posted it as fact when it is clearly opinion, you are doing nothing more than inciting fear and hate. I you need to keep your nose out of this or at least bring facts to the table not some freaking blog by someone who also writes about the "best sandwich in the world" when describing a sandwich from Subway ...forgive me for not having an iota of respect for his POV


again Kerberos, you are using this incident to further your political views ...we get it, you dont like Muslims (you wont come out and say it but I suspect you're jewish (probably isreali) and have an ingrained hatred/distrust/fear of muslims ..admittedly an assumption on my part, but that would explain a lot)

 

[K e r b e r o s]

The moral your blog gleaned from the attempted attack was that my "liberal" nation was "ignoring/appeasing the problem of Islamic radicalism and being nice to these people."

Again, this was not blog nor my comments.

I'll have none of it.

Those things which you have accused me of doing, are not my responsibility nor my actions. You are probably attacking the wrong person.

hmmm could it be because THEY'RE CANADIAN? no that could be it could it?

They're are other countries who had fought in our 'Coalition of the Willing', and even they have'nt been threatened or strongarmed out of our alliance.

I will restate that its because Western Countries violate they're Takfir Doctrines and new religious orders that spurred from Islam that the terrorists thought your country the perfect place.

Although I respect enough what you're saying, I just don't believe it to be the primary reason. Your country has'nt had any Abu Gharibs, any atrocities commited against Civilians, so it makes little sense such a strike would be borne out of vengeful retalliation. At the time before our Invasion in Iraq, it would appear that Bin Ladens regime was not very popular.

And, that Canadians were not on the most popular list of targets. Since that has changed however, I will still argue it was the religious fear of your society that garnered it to be a target on Al-Qaeda's list. That and the fact, lets face it, some of your countrymen thought themselves to be immune from a terrorist strike.

You got lucky. We thought ourselves to be immune ... again, Canada is leading by a very succesful example.

umm a live journal entry by an american self-described neo-conservative who can pretty much be anyone? ...remind me again how I'm supposed to take this as fact when he makes some glaring factual errors

Challenge him then, CptStern. This is not a fight to prove to me, but to him.

no, you posted it as fact when it is clearly opinion

Blogs have always been opinion -- I believe you also have one of 'those' about his Journal? I'm not enraged CptStern, but still highly congradulatory nothing bad happened.

I'd like to exclusively say that for myself, I wish our country could follow in your footsteps. I still can't believe they were stopped. Usually, the terrorists will get you to believe in they're Ghost Story. That, they're there, and then they're gone.

You caught the ghosts. I'm still very pleased about this.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Canada's Thwarted 9/11
Everyone's heard by now that a terror plot was broken up in Canada late this past week--something that had it come off, might have well been on the scale of 9/11. Twelve arrests, more coming... and the hand wringing has already begun, with pundits in the media already in full damage control mode, desperate to blame society, blame racism, blame Bush or the US, blame anyone but the terrorists themselves and paint this as something other than what it obviously is--homegrown Islamic radicalism. Anything but admit that despite Canada's reputation for tolerance, inclusiveness and multiculturalism, as well as it's anti-US stance on many issues, the nation is still a target for terrorists and that ignoring/appeasing the problem of Islamic radicalism and being tolerant of those who are anything but tolerant themselves doesn't work.

-- The first Paragraph Edited.

My friend has apologized for what he wrote initially.

 

[CptStern]

Again, this was not blog nor my comments.

then who's was it?

They're are other countries who had fought in our 'Coalition of the Willing', and even they have'nt been threatened or strongarmed out of our alliance.

you're missing the point here ..the terrorists themselves are mostly canadian ..both canadian citizens and naturalised canadians

I will restate that its because Western Countries violate they're Takfir Doctrines and new religious orders that spurred from Islam that the terrorists thought your country the perfect place.

that's a huge leap of logic ..first of all the terrorists were CANADIAN they didnt come from some other country with the intent to attack canada ..they went to high schools here, they lived and breathed most of their lives under a canadian sun ...you really should get your facts straight ...there is no outside influence pulling the strings

Although I respect enough what you're saying, I just don't believe it to be the primary reason. Your country has'nt had any Abu Gharibs, any atrocities commited against Civilians, so it makes little sense such a strike would be borne out of vengeful retalliation. At the time before our Invasion in Iraq, it would appear that Bin Ladens regime was not very popular.

yes but we're in afghanistan and we've recently went from peacekeeper to taking a lead role in offense ..while this is pure speculation it is far more grounded that your "international conspiracy to take down every western country" ...examine the facts, you'll find most of these groups are hardly organised ..especially on such a grand scale as you would suggest

And, that Canadians were not on the most popular list of targets. Since that has changed however, I will still argue it was the religious fear of your society that garnered it to be a target on Al-Qaeda's list. That and the fact, lets face it, some of your countrymen thought themselves to be immune from a terrorist strike.

I'm sure some of you thought the same ...however we didnt think we were immune ..in fact we've been named a number of times by osama himself

You got lucky. We thought ourselves to be immune ... again, Canada is leading by a very succesful example.

no, we didnt get lucky, the rcmp were tailing them for 2 years now, luck only played a small role initially ..but what has been made clear is the fact that they didnt cover themselves all that well and were more along the lines of amateurish incompetants than terrorist masterminds

Challenge him then, CptStern. This is not a fight to prove to me, but to him.

what? he isnt a member here? why would I bother? I'm sure there's millions of americans who disagree with POV ..should I challenge them as well?

Blogs have always been opinion -- I believe you also have one of 'those' about his Journal? I'm not enraged CptStern, but still highly congradulatory nothing bad happened.

of course I have an opinion on his blog .....but at least mine is based on fact

I'd like to exclusively say that for myself, I wish our country could follow in your footsteps. I still can't believe they were stopped. Usually, the terrorists will get you to believe in they're Ghost Story. That, they're there, and then they're gone.

they were incompetant idiots ..poseurs, wannabes ...you however have the real deal

You caught the ghosts. I'm still very pleased about this.

more like we caught the guys pretending to be ghosts ..like little kids in white bedsheets making half-assed scary sounds


edit: change the post all you want, that guy still hasnt a clue of what he's talking about

 

[K e r b e r o s]

then who's was it?

Allow me to choose the pace of your demands. The friend of mine goes by the name 'Kip'. The journal I referred to and cited is his.

you're missing the point here ..the terrorists themselves are mostly canadian ..both canadian citizens and naturalised canadians

I understood that. I'm not trying to say that because of they're cultural/ethnic backgrounds that its fair to determine from knee-jerk responses they're diversity is what 'preconditioned' them to becoming terrorists.

I think, more or less this was a message perhaps conveyed by another person? If it was what I left for interpretation, I apologize, and will apologize to other forum members if they were offended.

..first of all the terrorists were CANADIAN they didnt come from some other country with the intent to attack canada

Some were naturalized citizens, but I'm not trying to argue that as a determining factor for what they did or how they became the way they are now.

..they went to high schools here, they lived and breathed most of their lives under a canadian sun ...you really should get your facts straight

CptStern, I respect what your saying is right, but I request that this be brought forward. I'am challenging this arguement to a respect because I have heard differently.

http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Co...149285034960&call_pageid=968332188492&col=the

I wish to cite this because this also describes what the naturalized citizens attended. That despite they're livelihoods, they were corrupted much later.

So you see, CptStern. I don't see how I could be blaiming they're culture, they're background as naturalized Canadian citizens. To emphasize, an imam preached just the right sermon at the right time, and these people became the victim of misguidance.

there is no outside influence pulling the strings

The Imams maybe, but the terror training camp having these people over for attendee's? Something was pulling the strings, perhaps even themselves for choosing on they're own free will to become apart of Al-Qaedas regime, or even an off-shoot of it.

yes but we're in afghanistan and we've recently went from peacekeeper to taking a lead role in offense

I see your occupation still not that justifying for a complete attack against the seat of your government. The Peace-Keeper change was required to keep Al-Qaeda from re-entering Afghanistan.

And yet, that type of challenge has not carried with it the marine atrocities at Haditha, or the US Armies Abu Gharib. They're motivated out of rage, and these naturalized Canadian citizens appeared to be rageful out of choice, possibly ignoring your own countries humanitarian efforts.

while this is pure speculation it is far more grounded that your "international conspiracy to take down every western country"

Though it might appear like a conspiracy, and I respect your opinion looking in from the outside, this has been something said before amungst numerous terrorist organizations and the countries that support them.

www.pmw.org.il

I'm sure some of you thought the same

We did. And thats what made 9/11 such a strong success. The American People had no pre-recorded cognition that a succesful strike against our country would be made, or that one should even have been worried about.

Yes, our ignorance and arrogance costed us.

the rcmp were tailing them for 2 years now, luck only played a small role initially

I could say luck, fate, will of the gods, will of the god, anything that explains the sheer sheer amount of relief and awe that above all else, your country did what ours could not.

It was'nt meant to say that Canada did not have the experience nor the intelligence do handle the topic of terrorism, and to such a way it prevented the 'ghosts' from commiting they're attacks.

what? he isnt a member here? why would I bother?

The one thing I'm learning from him is patience and how to be agreeable. I used to just come charging headlong into arguements without much thought. Yes, I still do that ... but from him, I'm attempting at learning manners in a debate.

It helps me to understand other people, and myself in a debate. Challenging him however, might give him a perspective he's never had before. It might be rewarding for the both of you.

And, I did'nt mean a challenge like a fight or battle. Perhaps a question to him if anything else, but if not, I'd like to reiterate his comments are not my responsibility.

It's not that I don't feel your disgust or confusion, I just know delivering it to me, the messanger, is understandable but perhaps, and I'm not trying to insult you ... but, needing to be directed elsewhere.

of course I have an opinion on his blog .....but at least mine is based on fact

He has facts in his blog, and yes, its intermixed with opinion. So are my arguements, and sometimes, so are yours. We demonize each other for wanting to speak our minds, our share with fellow members interpretations we've gained over the years about past conflict and strife.

In by doing that, how will we understand our own and others perceptions?

change the post all you want, that guy still hasnt a clue of what he's talking about

He's the one who has edited it. I do not take claim for what he has modified.

 

[Flyingdebris]

Kerberos, you get my kudos for fighting a politics forum single handedly. So i will offer some reinforcement

For the most part I agree with you.

Mistakes have made, nothing always goes according to plan, and for the most part Bush does and says really stupid things. However I do very much see the need to use force. Because peaceful rhetoric only works on rational people.

People willing to blow up themselves up in busses, decap POWs, and hide behind and/or target civilians, are not rational exept in the the most ruthless sense.

 

[Mechagodzilla]

It still says canada was "ignoring/appeasing the problem of Islamic radicalism"

Obviously your friend doesn't get the point of what he should be apologising for.

In fact, it just goes in more detail, declaring that anyone who is anti-Bush is ignoring/appeasing.

If you don't agree with this, why did you even post it repeatedly in the first place?
Come on now.


Canada is NOT a friend of terrorism.

Being Canadian is NOT a cowardly, reprehensible thing.

Freedom fries all over again. With friends like you, who needs terrorism?
Oh right. You and your blog need the terrorism so you can demonize liberals.

****. You.