Despised to be an American.

kilword said:
man.....bush won...only president ive ever heard of that makes you feel depised to be an american. funny when you look at the color maps...every single state thats red is in someway a freakin "redneck/retirment" state and every actually every major american governing state is blue....im not pro-kerry im pro anyone in office but bush. *sigh*
flame all you want but he is a idiot...
"noone that wears a cowboy hat and is a ranch-hand should not be in office" no offence to anyone but most "cowboyish" older men are biast in alot of cases. plus someone that can at least talk straight and clearly without being always hesitent and looking for words to use.
:flame: :flame: :devil: :devil: *666*
cause if you 5 5 5 then im 6 6 6! :angry:
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you have no idea how STUPID you sound in that post ... YOU just made yourself look like a complete fool ...
 
Its simple. The places that are blue are densly populated. Its these areas where people from all cultures colide. Here there is a greater exchange of ideals and ideologies, where we have grown to be accepting of differences and understanding of eachother. In the red areas there is greater isolation and less contact with diversity. These people stick to old ways, the only ways that anyone around them knows, and adpot the stuborn opinions of their familys.
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This is why you didnt win the election.
 
seinfeldrules said:
I could agree with that. Why be something you hate?
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I'm ashamed right now to be related with the red states, or the people who voted for President Bush yet again. I'm sure many, many people feel the same way as I. We're ashamed to be Americans because we know what our country has done to the world under this administration for the past four years, and we know what it will do to the world during the next four. However, I'm not leaving. I want this country to be something I can be proud of. I want it to be a country that sets the trend, and works as part of a global community. I want to change things so that when I say I'm an American, I don't feel shame, but rather pride, knowing for certain that we're one of the good guys in this world. So I'm staying right here, and I'm going to fight for my own vision of the country. That's what it's all about. I'm ashamed to be an American under President Bush, but I'm not ashamed of the ideals the country was founded upon.
 
Well, the ideals of the country are that the president is elected by electorial college, and whoever wins that gets to be the president.

You're contradicting yourself when you say you love the ideals the country was founded on, but hate it when the person you wanted to win the election doesn't.
 
Sounds pretty selfish actually..so the one you wanted to win lost.. just support our president now.. what other choice do you have? sit there and whine and cry?
 
Hazar said:
Well, the ideals of the country are that the president is elected by electorial college, and whoever wins that gets to be the president.

You're contradicting yourself when you say you love the ideals the country was founded on, but hate it when the person you wanted to win the election doesn't.
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No, you don't understand me. This President is not the one I want in office; many, many people don't want him in office. Leaving the country however would be a concession, the whole point of a democratic society is to stay and fight for a person who represents you and your ideas for the country. That's the whole point. Of course I hate that my candidate didn't win, but I'm not suggesting something was done incorrectly or that President Bush wasn't elected fairly. He was; the majority put him back, and we'll have to deal with that. I'm not suggesting John Kerry should be President now. Bush should, because that's how the country voted and that's how the system works. I don't have to agree with Bush however; I don't have to like him and want he stands for; I can in fact hate him and what he stands for, and I don't have to support him in any way. That doesn't mean I hate America or have somehow contradicted myself.
 
qckbeam said:
I'm ashamed right now to be related with the red states, or the people who voted for President Bush yet again. I'm sure many, many people feel the same way as I. We're ashamed to be Americans because we know what our country has done to the world under this administration for the past four years, and we know what it will do to the world during the next four. However, I'm not leaving. I want this country to be something I can be proud of. I want it to be a country that sets the trend, and works as part of a global community. I want to change things so that when I say I'm an American, I don't feel shame, but rather pride, knowing for certain that we're one of the good guys in this world. So I'm staying right here, and I'm going to fight for my own vision of the country. That's what it's all about. I'm ashamed to be an American under President Bush, but I'm not ashamed of the ideals the country was founded upon.
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I may not like it, but its better than nothing :thumbs:
 
qckbeam said:
No, you don't understand me. This President is not the one I want in office; many, many people don't want him in office. Leaving the country however would be a concession, the whole point of a democratic society is to stay and fight for a person who represents you and your ideas for the country. That's the whole point. Of course I hate that my candidate didn't win, but I'm not suggesting something was done incorrectly or that President Bush wasn't elected fairly. He was; the majority put him back, and we'll have to deal with that. I'm not suggesting John Kerry should be President now. Bush should, because that's how the country voted and that's how the system works. I don't have to agree with Bush however; I don't have to like him and want he stands for; I can in fact hate him and what he stands for, and I don't have to support him in any way. That doesn't mean I hate America or have somehow contradicted myself.
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Amen to that
 
Amen brotha!!!AMEEEN!!!

*dances wildly*
 
guess what guys..




BUSH WON! hahah im sorry I couldnt resist.
 
Kid Rock sucks and he can't sing worth shit!

Hahaha...couldn't resist.
 
KidRock said:
guess what guys..




BUSH WON! hahah im sorry I couldnt resist.
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Proving, once again, that the US is made up of alot of stupid people.
 
DoctorGordon said:
Are you...mocking me?
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:LOL: No no..it just reminded me of a part in the first blues brothers movie.
 
Homer: Euro Trash? You are kidding, right? Seeing this thread I was coming in to see how things were still being blown out of proportion big time. But I feel kind of offended by that shit. I've lived and worked in the US for a year, have lived in an all american family (who are Bush fans, have always been and are republican of course) but I've not seen so much narrow-mindedness. Having a green card and actually having friends in the US I wonder how much you actually know about Europe? Been here for a week on vacation? Or have you lived in different countries (yes, Europe consists of more than one country) in Europe?

So Bush won. Big deal really. He's not the devil or something. And the majority of american voters have decided on him. That makes it a democratic vote in the US, not the world. Also the system is much larger than Bush alone so...

But can ppl like Homer shut up?

@Kerberos: being the dog guarding the river Hades, you should know that no country alone can live. There's import and export and unilateralism is not working in a globalised world.

What do you guys have against Europe as a whole, I'd really like to know...
 
Prone said:
Homer: Euro Trash? You are kidding, right? Seeing this thread I was coming in to see how things were still being blown out of proportion big time. But I feel kind of offended by that shit. I've lived and worked in the US for a year, have lived in an all american family (who are Bush fans, have always been and are republican of course) but I've not seen so much narrow-mindedness. Having a green card and actually having friends in the US I wonder how much you actually know about Europe? Been here for a week on vacation? Or have you lived in different countries (yes, Europe consists of more than one country) in Europe?
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Since when has being an 'All-American' mean you're a Bush fan and a republican?

I wouldn't call Americans in general narrow-minded either.

But can ppl like Homer shut up?
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Nothing, unfortunately. Heeding him attention will only provoke him even more. Just ignore him.

What do you guys have against Europe as a whole, I'd really like to know...
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Not I, personally. Quite fancy of Europe.
 
I think Bush's victory is a sign that America is just as bad as most of the rest of world thinks. Your inability to leave a self-obsessed, herd culture is perfectly emalgumated in the fact that Home Security is and shall continue to be the main issue for you people. Your nation can't see beyond its noses and that is what Bush was counting on, pure fear, it's awful.

Seinfeld Rules sig pretty much sums it up so i won't go on but i think it is about time that as a nation you grow up and learn to appreciate we have a global community that is not just a source for all your goods.

I'm just sad that a man as ignorant and indefensible as Bush can win anyone over except for right wing scare mongers. But hey at least you got Vladimir Putin's support, he was very pleased.
 
Rupertvdb said:
I think Bush's victory is a sign that America is just as bad as most of the rest of world thinks. Your inability to leave a self-obsessed, herd culture is perfectly emalgumated in the fact that Home Security is and shall continue to be the main issue for you people. Your nation can't see beyond its noses and that is what Bush was counting on, pure fear, it's awful.

Seinfeld Rules sig pretty much sums it up so i won't go on but i think it is about time that as a nation you grow up and learn to appreciate we have a global community that is not just a source for all your goods.

I'm just sad that a man as ignorant and indefensible as Bush can win anyone over except for right wing scare mongers. But hey at least you got Vladimir Putin's support, he was very pleased.
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Aren't you a positive person.
 
It's a damn shame in my opinion. The American people have given Bush a mandate approving what he has done over the last four years, which gives him more of a free reign to continue down that path.

I wasn't against the war in Iraq, that isn't my main problem. My problem is that we have a man who wears his religion on his sleeve, who wholeheartedly and unashamedly mixes that religion into the way he governs the country. Why should this man dictate whether a woman of entirely different faith should be allowed to have an abortion? Stem-cell research could make great leaps forward in medical treatment and yet for religious reasons he is reluctant to devote public money to the cause.

Americans missed a great opportunity in Senator Kerry. I watched his nomination acceptance speech at the Democrat Party Conference this year, and despite all the fanfare and posturing (as is prevalent in American Politics) I became truly excited at the prospect of a man such as himself leading the free world. Here is a man who would not shy from fighting global terror, and yet has the wisdom to admit that uni-lateral action wouldn't be the first recourse for America. There would have been a real chance for progress. Not just in world affairs either, but in the general progress of humanity through science and discovery.

I went to bed Tuesday night optimistic that in the morning Kerry would become the new leader, however progress is going to have to wait a little while longer.
 
@MadHatter: no, being all-american doesn't mean Bush fan or republican. They were both, all american and the other. Just wanted to show that I actually have lived there and know a bit about the US.

Also narrow-mindedness was only for Homer. I couldn't understand his euro trash remark when I've not met such ppl.

Seems like it was too late for me to type, sorry for causing misunderstanding.
 
Politics is hot stuff.
And whoever it was who said "If you can't handle Iraq being invaded get out of the international arena" is talking straight out of their arse. It's not funny, people were killed under false pretenses, in other circumstances this would make bush liable for manslaughter.
Those of you who are saying "Bush won, just back him and all will be better", despite the positive attitude seem to be missing the point; we don't want him there. Sure, some do, they're entitled to their opinion, I'd just like to hear 5 good reasons why he is a good president.
We are airing our reasons why he shouldn't, I've seen very little evidence of good that Bush has done from ppl in this forum apart from let beef in from Canada.
So here are som reasons why bush should not be able to run a country as powerful as America, or indeed any country
a) He has no concern for the environment, as shown in his ignorance to signing america in on new internation standards
b) He has done great damage to American economy
c) He is either: in too deep OR war mongering. He wanted a draft which either means he doesn't have the man power to deal with what he's involved in OR he wants more military to continue new agendas.
d) In his search for a trophey after 9/11, after failing to capture OBL, he has started an ILLEGAL WAR! ILLEGAL! AGAINST THE LAW! He believes he can do what the hell he wants, despite the majority being against him, when he's running a country as large as America this is EXTREMELY DANGEROUS.
e) In doing all that he has done he has altered people's beliefs on America. Many many people do not like what your country has done. If some of you are too ignorant to realise it is what your president has done that is causing these opinions to come your way you need to wake up and start looking at what impact your country has on other people.

There's five reasons why he shouldn't. And considering these reasons have extremely huge impacts they are of greater value than "allowing beef in". Environmental issues may end up sinking millions of homes, killing millions of species, hundred of thousands of people, and leaving millions more without homes, and cause overcrowding, famine and drought.
But why wait for him to kill people; he can initiate wars with countries while hunting for one small group of people. Then leave the country to rot.
He's the worst.

And yes this is my opinion, but at least I can back it up with evidence. I am not digging at Americans, ur nice people, but I'm showing you what your president has done. And it's sick to think he should be respected just because he got voted in. It doesn't change what he's done.
 
Hey burner, you forgot that Bush supports undoing the separation of the Church and State.
 
bushists probably have 20 reasons to keep him in. ofcourse they don't convince you but they convince them (bushists) just like your reasons don't convince them.
 
burner69 said:
b) He has done great damage to American economy
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I just about died reading this....Listen to this, remember 9/11 and remember what happened after it? Yeah thats called a recession and/or depression, whatever you want to call it, it still happened, and it did the damage to the economy, but nice try. The job market is booming again, I will put it this way, the past 2 year since the resession or what you want to call it, my boss(he's a recruiter) got maybe 3 or 4 placements. Yeah only 3 or 4 in 2 years, its horrible. Now just in 2004 he has place about 10-15 people in all different types of pharmaceutical companys. You think what you will about the economy, but I see a difference, for the better.
 
DiSTuRbEd said:
The job market is booming again.
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LMAO
"During his presidency Mr Bush became the first president since Hoover to lose more jobs than he created... the number of Americans living below the poverty line grew by 4.3m to 35.9m in Bush's first four years. Social programs are likely to be cut further as the president seeks ways to pay for his tax giveaways to the wealthy and close the budget deficit
The issue most unsettling to economists has been the budget deficit, falling from a surplus of $236bn in 2000 to $413 in the red this year. Mr Bush claims he will cut the deficit in half by the time he leaves office... that plan already appears to be faltering as company profits have failed to keep any sustained momentum in the second half of the year...
"Federal spending has increased by 15%... and it is unclear where the cuts will be made.
"Mr Bush handed out another $145 bn in corportae tax breaks shortly before the election."

Wake up ;)
 
By the way, that info is from todays Guardian. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all place for knowledge, but it can at least back up it's claims.

Can you?
 
burner69 said:
By the way, that info is from todays Guardian. I'm not saying it's the be all and end all place for knowledge, but it can at least back up it's claims.

Can you?
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Lets see, all the placements I've seen my boss do and several family members getting new jobs after losing them a week before. I don't need a newspaper or magazine to claim anything.
 
You're basing an entire country's economic status over what your boss's and family's experience?
Sheesh.
And why should a terrorist attack remove jobs from a country? Why should that mean Bush has to cut back on social programmes to help the poor in order to give his wealthy supporters tax breaks?
9/11 was a totally ****ed up thing to happen. I utterly dispise the people who did it, and it will have had an effect on the economy.
But not as strong an effect as we can see is happening.

And in saying that the country's fine because your boss and mates say is a VERY odd thing to post in a political forum, and will raise questions over your ability to argue an issue.
 
burner69 said:
But not as strong an effect as we can see is happening.
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Wow you really are blind, do you know what was in the towers to begin with? I mean there was only hundreds of businesses there that helped out the US economy, but I mean, tradegy had a part in the downfall of the economy too. But without those towers we lost a lot of money.
 
This is taken from your governments report on the attack:
"The attacks on the World Trade Center buildings cpst about $83bn (in 2001 dollars) in total losses (including both direct and indirect costs); about $67bn of thelosses would most likely be covered by insurance, federal payments or increased economical activity."

$83bn dollars.

From http://www.policyalmanac.org/economic/archive/minimum_wage02.shtml
"The federal minimum wage totals just $10,700 a year for a full-time, full-year minimum wage worker"

From (and I'd check this site out) http://www.socialistappeal.org/usa/poverty_and_unemployment_in_amer.html

"As of October 2003, payroll jobs had fallen by 2.4 million below the level of March 2001"

no. of job losses x minimum wage (so this is the very least amount possible) = 2.4million x $10,700 = $25bn per year has been taken from the economy. That's the least.
He's been in power 4 years.
$25bn x 4 = $100bn.

This is not fact, this is just showing you where the figures lead you.
And when you consider he gave his wealthy friends a $145bn tax cut THIS YEAR! Suddenly he doesn't seem like such a hot guy.
 
Burner i have to say reading the guardian isn't going to give you slightest bit of balanced commentary. Your figures don't add up either, the economy is not quite so simply described...HOWEVER.... you are totally right in suggesting that Bush's tax cuts and allocation has helped create a vacuum that was not necessary.

To Disturbed who claims the economy is just fine...you're crazy. I don't know how you can suggest the Bush administration has done anything to help America's economic situation. Please point out some facts and figures, maybe an essay or two that can detail how it has.
 
burner69 said:
And when you consider he gave his wealthy friends a $145bn tax cut THIS YEAR! Suddenly he doesn't seem like such a hot guy.
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Dude, man, that was to stimulate the economy again. And stuff. :p
 
How long will it take the people to realize that tax cuts for rich people are made to just be just tax cuts for rich people and not an economic stimulus. They help each other out. Rich people donate money and help politicians get elected if the politicians give them tax cuts, tone down business regulations like pollution, and just generally let them make more money while paying people less. Rich people hoard most of their money. Poor people spend all of their money. Poor people buy things mostly made by other poor people... whereas rich people by the fanciest things possible from the richest manufacturers. How does stagnating the pool of available money and buying from other rich people help the people that need help? It doesn't. That policy has been around for decades... and in the past 30+ years the rich have gotten 140% richer while the poor are only making 8% more than in the late sixties. Minimum wage has fallen far behind inflation. Yet, even with all of this going on... the big businesses exercise their control over the governmedia (they are so deep in each others' pockets it's just easier to use one term to cover them both) to keep getting more and more tax cuts and loopholes while screwing the working man without them even knowing it.

When people start to question the corruption of the governmedia through deregulation (taking away limitations of how many media outlets corporations can control and how they must be used) they just end up turning to the news for their facts in order to form an opinion on the subject... and what do the popular news channels (which happen to be controlled by corporations) tell them? "Deregulation is good." It most certainly is not... as witnessed after radio was deregulated. Radio, in terms of politics, is an intellectual black hole. All radio channels are now are partisan soap boxes. The "personalities" just come on and reiterate the same crap coming out of their favorite candidate's mouth while insulting and demeaning the opponent. It helps make the propaganda accepted by the use of constant, almost word-for-word, repitition.

The only way it will ever change is if people fight for change... but people can't fight against injustices they can't see (and that is the job of corporate-owned news outlets... conceal the terrible and make the bad seem not so bad). It's a cycle... and without interference it's going to just keep getting worse until other countries have to step in and tell us that something is seriously wrong. That is, if we don't stop them first.

Oh, what the hell... no one will listen. I'll just go back to stockpiling canned goods and building my bomb shelter. :(

EDIT: By the way, neither of the two major parties are clean in this respect... but I think Republicans are a tiny bit worse.
 
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