Dragon Age: Origins

[Eejit]

Indeed they did. I played a bit of Baldur's Gate 2 co-op recently with Laivasse.

 

[CptStern]

I had a mac at the time .......I dont think I need to elaborate

 

[Kadayi]

The decision to include them as an option is what I object to. You don't need to be rewarded for it to be revolting. Red Studio will be getting no money for me.

Are you perhaps advocating piracy there? :dozey:

/sigh
I was talking about sexual objectification.
Also, your point is redundant. We're all things made of things that do stuff. That doesn't mean we should treat each other or think of each other as cabbages or a meaningless collection of subatomic particles.

My point is you can't make a separation. You are as much the flesh on your bones as you are the thoughts in your head. Fact of the matter is, the women in The Witcher aren't treated like objects, or vacuously sexualised in the way that Dragon Age is going about it.

Are you trying to put words in my mouth? Where did I ever indicate that that was my rationale?

Merely pointing out the utter absurdity of your position. Japanese Rape Play games are quite clearly misogynistic because they are all about submission & humilation of the female characters in the game. The Witcher doesn't fall into realm, and to claim it is is just lazy thinking.

 

[jverne]

this debate is a good sign...why...because finally we're seeing more non PG-13 games coming out, slowly yes but i'm being optimistic.

any game that offers me such scenes gets bonus points
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4kh6RzaHPVI&feature=related

 

[Cpt Tenacious]

Really waxing my megaboner for this game.

 

[Eejit]

Are you perhaps advocating piracy there? :dozey:

Of course not, I'm saying I've played enough of my friend's copy to decide I don't want this game.

My point is you can't make a separation. You are as much the flesh on your bones as you are the thoughts in your head. Fact of the matter is, the women in The Witcher aren't treated like objects, or vacuously sexualised in the way that Dragon Age is going about it.

Yeah, sure, collecting topless pictures of women isn't treating them like sexualised objects. :dozey:

Merely pointing out the utter absurdity of your position. Japanese Rape Play games are quite clearly misogynistic because they are all about submission & humilation of the female characters in the game. The Witcher doesn't fall into realm, and to claim it is is just lazy thinking.

You're not pointing out the absurdity of my position since I never made the argument you're replying to. Did I equate it to rapeplay? No, it's you who brought up those games.
The Witcher falls into a seperate realm of misogyny and sexism than Japanese rapeplay.
In case you feel like misinterpreting my position again I'll repeat, "Misogyny is hatred or contempt of women, such as the contempt shown by collecting cards displaying your 'conquests' half-naked."
The existence of games which are even worse does not mean that the Witcher is not misogynistic.


You've already admitted that the cards are objectionable, why are you trying to defend it? Their presence means that despite whatever strong female characters may be present The Witcher will remain a sexist game.

 

[Kadayi]

Of course not, I'm saying I've played enough of my friend's copy to decide I don't want this game.

Don't pay, don't play. :dozey:

Yeah, sure, collecting topless pictures of women isn't treating them like sexualised objects. :dozey:

Again, you don't need to collect them, and unlike other games there is no achievement to doing so. As has been said by myself and others they aren't a fundamental part of the game. If you'd bothered getting over your apparent squeamishness at potentially seeing painted breasts (lol the horror!!, Do you know the internets at all?) how are you going to handle spending 80 odd hours wandering around with a scantily clad Witch? Or does the lack of visible aureole & nipple make it wholly acceptable?

No Nips = perfectly fine yes, no sexualisation going on there at all

You're not pointing out the absurdity of my position since I never made the argument you're replying to. Did I equate it to rapeplay? No, it's you who brought up those games.
The Witcher falls into a seperate realm of misogyny and sexism than Japanese rapeplay.
In case you feel like misinterpreting my position again I'll repeat, "Misogyny is hatred or contempt of women, such as the contempt shown by collecting cards displaying your 'conquests' half-naked."
The existence of games which are even worse does not mean that the Witcher is not misogynistic.

I'm merely pointing out your lazy misuse of the word misogyny through example. The cards are not a fundamental part of the game. You make it sound like its Mario collecting Gold Rings or what not, where as in fact there is no in game reward or high score for pursing any of the ladies.

You've already admitted that the cards are objectionable, why are you trying to defend it? Their presence means that despite whatever strong female characters may be present The Witcher will remain a sexist game.

Because I don't particularly view the cards are a fundamental aspect of the game. If they were there on not it wouldn't alter the game play experience one bit. Seriously you need to get over your nipple fear and embrace The Witcher for what is is (a Bloody good RPG) and quit fooling yourself that as long as there aren't nipples showing it's not unacceptable and crass.

 

[Eejit]

Again, you don't need to collect them, and unlike other games there is no achievement to doing so. As has been said by myself and others they aren't a fundamental part of the game. If you'd bothered getting over your apparent squeamishness at potentially seeing painted breasts (lol the horror!!, Do you know the internets at all?) how are you going to handle spending 80 odd hours wandering around with a scantily clad Witch? Or does the lack of visible aureole & nipple make it wholly acceptable?

Keep twisting and turning, resort to insults if you must. It's blatent sexism. The fact that softcore pron exists elsewhere on the internet doesn't mean it's something we should happily accept in games. Particularly when it takes the form of collecting trophies of ingame sexual encounters. That is the aspect of it which revolts me the most.

I'm merely pointing out your lazy misuse of the word misogyny through example. The cards are not a fundamental part of the game. You make it sound like its Mario collecting Gold Rings or what not, where as in fact there is no in game reward or high score for pursing any of the ladies.

It's not misuse, the word covers a range of attitudes. Surely the trophy cards are the 'reward' for pursuing the ladies...

If they were there on not it wouldn't alter the game play experience one bit. Seriously you need to get over your nipple fear and embrace The Witcher for what is is (a Bloody good RPG) and quit fooling yourself that as long as there aren't nipples showing it's not unacceptable and crass.

The fact that the cards are completely extraneous only makes their inclusion worse. You are collecting topless pictures of your conquests - because the devs thought it would be fun.

 

[Letters]

The Witcher was terrible from the first second as you're forced to play that awful, white-haired douchebag. And it only gets worse from there. I can't fathom how anyone could actually stand to play through the entirety of that wretched piece of shit calling itself a game, let alone actually have the gall to come out and say that they like it.

There hasn't been a good singleplayer fantasy RPG since Neverwinter Nights' Hordes of the Underdark expansion (Who was that done by again? Same guys doing Dragon Age?). Don't even mention Oblivion to me... I don't have the lung capacity for a such a string profanities.

 

[Eejit]

Neverwinter Nights 2's Mask of the Betrayer expansion was pretty good actually.

 

[Lucid]

NWN2 was a giant pain in the balls to try and play.
The camera system is the worst I've ever encountered.

 

[Kadayi]

Keep twisting and turning, resort to insults if you must. It's blatent sexism. The fact that softcore pron exists elsewhere on the internet doesn't mean it's something we should happily accept in games. Particularly when it takes the form of collecting trophies of ingame sexual encounters. That is the aspect of it which revolts me the most.

So based on that diatribe I take it you were appalled by the sexual encounter in Mass Effect, because not only did it reward you with an achievement, but it also earned you experience as well, yes?

I think you also need to understand that when it comes to risqué imagery, this: -

Spoiler

Is not remotely the same as this: -

Spoiler

Nudity is not necessarily automatically demeaning, context is everything.

It's not misuse, the word covers a range of attitudes. Surely the trophy cards are the 'reward' for pursuing the ladies...

That a bunch of halfwits and knuckle draggers around the world misuse it daily, in the same sense as red necks confuse Communists with Fascists half of the time doesn't mean that what they think it means is what actually means:-

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/misogyny

hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women.

The character in the game (because lets talk about the game), is certainly a womaniser, but he's no misogynist in either the way he thinks, talks or acts.

The fact that the cards are completely extraneous only makes their inclusion worse. You are collecting topless pictures of your conquests - because the devs thought it would be fun.

Yet for all this angry internet man posturing your doing, you somehow don't think that the Chainmail Bikini stylings of DA: O are remotely objectionable? Do nipples really terrify you that much?

 

[Eejit]

I only used the overhead camera view, similar to BG style, I didn't have problems with it.

 

[CptStern]

that chick has enormous eyes. the **** no one studies proportion any more

 

[Kadayi]

that chick has enormous eyes. the **** no one studies proportion any more

LOL, admit it Stern your a sucker for massive orbs :naughty:

The Witcher was terrible from the first second as you're forced to play that awful, white-haired douchebag. And it only gets worse from there. I can't fathom how anyone could actually stand to play through the entirety of that wretched piece of shit calling itself a game, let alone actually have the gall to come out and say that they like it.

Why is he a Douchebag exactly? I mean you're the one directing his actions. Surely if anyone is being a Douche it must be you no?

 

[Eejit]

So based on that diatribe I take it you were appalled by the sexual encounter in Mass Effect, because not only did it reward you with an achievement, but it also earned you experience as well, yes?

It's rather disturbing, though slightly less so. There's a single achievement for completing any of the romance options rather than racking up a trophy for each one-night stand.

Nudity is not necessarily automatically demeaning, context is everything.

As I've been saying, the context is demeaning.

That a bunch of halfwits and knuckle draggers around the world misuse it daily, in the same sense as red necks confuse Communists with Fascists half of the time doesn't mean that what they think it means is what actually means:-

Some definitions include hatred and contempt as part of the meaning, as I said, contempt towards women is quite relevant.

The character in the game (because lets talk about the game), is certainly a womaniser, but he's no misogynist in either the way he thinks, talks or acts.

My beef is with the devs, not some fictional character.

Yet for all this angry internet man posturing your doing, you somehow don't think that the Chainmail Bikini stylings of DA: O are remotely objectionable? Do nipples really terrify you that much?

It's funny how you keep trying to make this about nipples, or me being angry or afraid of them. It's about disgust with the decisions the devs made, their attitude towards the 'conquests' you can get in the game.
If you cannot distinguish between that and 'sexualised' CGI characters you have my sympathy. However I suspect it's simply fanboyism causing you to defend your beloved game from any and all criticism, well-founded or not.

 

[Kadayi]

It's rather disturbing, though slightly less so. There's a single achievement for completing any of the romance options rather than racking up a trophy for each one-night stand.

So volume makes all the difference? Surely then all that matters is how you as the user play The Witcher then, given that there is no necessity to sleep with anyone in the game unless you choose to of your own free will.

As I've been saying, the context is demeaning.

The context is only demeaning if you make it so. You might as well complain about how cruel KoToR is given how badly you can mistreat your Allies if you care to. You are the driving force in the game.

Some definitions include hatred and contempt as part of the meaning, as I said, contempt towards women is quite relevant.

Oh really?

http://www.onelook.com/?w=misogyny&last=misogny&loc=spell1

My beef is with the devs, not some fictional character.

Then write them a strong letter. Maybe head over to their forums and debate it with them. But bitching out a game because there are optional mechanics in it that you don't have to utilise unless you actively choose to is pretty laughable.

It's funny how you keep trying to make this about nipples, or me being angry or afraid of them. It's about disgust with the decisions the devs made, their attitude towards the 'conquests' you can get in the game.

If you cannot distinguish between that and 'sexualised' CGI characters you have my sympathy. However I suspect it's simply fanboyism causing you to defend your beloved game from any and all criticism, well-founded or not.

Well it does seem like the covering of nipples are the crux of the matter, cutting through the bullshit and all.

 

[jverne]

i don't really know exactly what this debate between kadayi an Eejit is about, but i'm siding with Kadayi here.

alot of women love to appear sexy...even trough really slutty means. although wares in these games are overly exaggerated if a women (even men) has things to show she'll show them unless of course forbidden to (social norm, religion,...etc). fact of life...

 

[CptStern]

I'm even more confused now than before jverne's post ....didnt think that was possible, but lo and behold, here I am

 

[Blackthorn]

i don't really know exactly what this debate between kadayi an Eejit is about, but i'm siding with Kadayi here.

alot of women love to appear sexy...even trough really slutty means. although wares in these games are overly exaggerated if a women (even men) has things to show she'll show them unless of course forbidden to (social norm, religion,...etc). fact of life...

You should've read the debate first, you've missed the point quite violently and crashed headlong into a brick wall. And the bricks are made of fire.

 

[Eejit]

So volume makes all the difference?

Missing the subtleties as usual. I'll be charitable and chalk it down to willfullness and fanboy blinkers rather than a lack of perception.

The context is only demeaning if you make it so. You might as well complain about how cruel KoToR is given how badly you can mistreat your Allies if you care to. You are the driving force in the game.

"It only happens if you make it happen" - sure, but it was put in the game. The cards are there to reward that behaviour and attitude, just because it's optional hardly makes that any less revolting.

Oh really?

http://www.onelook.com/?w=misogyny&last=misogny&loc=spell1

6 and 14, cheers.

Then write them a strong letter. Maybe head over to their forums and debate it with them. But bitching out a game because there are optional mechanics in it that you don't have to utilise unless you actively choose to is pretty laughable.

"Don't criticise them where I can hear, write them a letter"
Why don't you and Blackthorn just write Bioware a letter about the chainmail bikinis rather than bitch about it here.
A mechanic doesn't need to be compulsory in order to be derided.

Well it does seem like the covering of nipples are the crux of the matter, cutting through the bullshit and all.

Having fun responding to the words you put in my mouth rather than what I actually say? Oh but what I say is actually "just bullshit" so that you can just pretend I'm offended by nipples and there's no problem with what's in the game.

The sexism in Dragon Age is hardly laudable, but it's ludicrous that some of you criticise that aspect of it while at the same time holding up The Witcher as the shining example of All That an RPG Can Be.

 

[Kadayi]

Missing the subtleties as usual. I'll be charitable and chalk it down to willfullness and fanboy blinkers rather than a lack of perception.

No how about you explain them? Because frankly so far I'm not seeing you actually having much of a leg to stand on here, given how much you shifted position. If the best you can do now is pile in with fanboi accusations I'd say your pretty much done. There's a lot of things I don't like about the Witcher, but the good far outweighs the bad, and personally I'm looking forward to the inevitable sequel because it's going to be interesting to see how they build upon the first game.

"It only happens if you make it happen" - sure, but it was put in the game. The cards are there to reward that behaviour and attitude, just because it's optional hardly makes that any less revolting.

LOL. It's entirely possible to kill quite a few of your comrades in Biowares games & you get rewarded for doing so. How revolting that they give you such options to kill your friends? But of course its all about player choice isn't it. In The Witcher you get to choose whether you sleep with any of the women. Choice who'd of thought it :dozey:

6 and 14, cheers.

LOL, 6 & 14 being the ever reliable wikipedia entries. I think I'll go with the academic dictionaries :dozey:

A mechanic doesn't need to be compulsory in order to be derided.

So now your deriding a mechanic? Shifting the goal posts again? First it was the game, then it was the storyline, then it was the Devs, now its the mechanic? LOL when will it end :dozey:

Having fun responding to the words you put in my mouth rather than what I actually say? Oh but what I say is actually "just bullshit" so that you can just pretend I'm offended by nipples and there's no problem with what's in the game.

The sexism in Dragon Age is hardly laudable, but it's ludicrous that some of you criticise that aspect of it while at the same time holding up The Witcher as the shining example of All That an RPG Can Be.

Well if you'd actually played it (which given your hysterical comments about card collecting like its Mario I'm increasingly beginning to doubt like Gargantou) you might well understand where we are coming from. Why it's a good RPG has everything to do with the way the game plays and unfolds and nothing to do with the sex cards. It's a pity your clearly too uptight to understand these things, because you are missing out on a great 'must play' RPG, that has a lot going for it in terms of storyline, characters and situations Vs most.

 

[jverne]

You should've read the debate first, you've missed the point quite violently and crashed headlong into a brick wall. And the bricks are made of fire.

this thing it probably more than 5 pages long...can anyone summarize it for me? why are they bitching about?

all i can say for certain is that more in-context naked bodies the better.


damn...i might just have to read it through.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Yeah, this thread has digressed a lot into some rather specific areas.

Anyway, can't wait to get my copy next week!

 

[Krynn72]

1) The context is only demeaning if you make it so. You might as well complain about how cruel KoToR is given how badly you can mistreat your Allies if you care to. You are the driving force in the game.

2) But bitching out a game because there are optional mechanics in it that you don't have to utilize unless you actively choose to is pretty laughable.

3) If the best you can do now is pile in with fanboi accusations I'd say your pretty much done.

4) Why it's a good RPG has everything to do with the way the game plays and unfolds and nothing to do with the sex cards.

All of these, and more, made me laugh. You're such a ****ing hypocrite Kadayi.


And let me explain why, because I'm sure you wont understand it by yourself.

1,2) First off, you're ragging on Dragon Age because of sex scenes which for all we know, are not mandatory, and yet defending the Witcher because its sex scenes were not mandatory. You're bitching out a game because there are probably optional things you can do that you don't have to utilize unless you actively choose too, which according to yourself, is laughable.

3) You've taken personal jabs at Eejit several times in your debates, and then you say that when he calls you a fanboy that he is "done" with this conversation. If that was the criteria for being done with the discussion, you'd have been done about 6 posts ago when you suggested that he advocated piracy. :|

4) This entire argument is about two things as far as I can tell. The first being sexism in Dragon Age, which you clearly have no grounds to defend yourself with after so much squabbling about The Witcher resulted in you just saying "Ignore this part of the game, and suddenly it isn't!"

And the second thing being whether or not Dragon Age will be a good rpg. You seem to think it wont be very good, or that it won't be as good as the Witcher. Certainly you must realize that making statements such as "The Witcher was good in spite of the bad bits (one of which I assume would be the sexism you deny the existence of) and then suggesting that Dragon Age will not be a good RPG in spite of the bad bits (like the sexism you so eagerly point out) all while you have not played a damn minute of it is a bit ridiculous. There is simply no proof to back up any of your claims except for your very subjective takes on whatever trailers or videos you watched.

So how about you and your pretentious attitude take the high road and shut the hell up. That way you can look down your nose at us and continue thinking you're so much better than everybody because you walked away from the flame war you instigated, like a gentleman. Surely you must find that opportunity appealing.

(and for the record, I never said anything about being above insults. I figure that you might try and say something like that as rebuttal to try and retain some of your hl2.net cred)

I eagerly await some infractions.

 

[Hazar]

the internet is serious buisness

 

[Krynn72]

If I remembered where I kept my :arms: emoticon, I totally would have used it at the end there.

 

[Laivasse]

/me ruminates, not for the first time, upon how to go about opening up another front in this conflict. One along the theme of: 'The Witcher Is Definitely Sexist With All Its Uniformly-Zeppelin-Titted Ho-bags Although I Don't Care Overmuch Because It's Also A Great RPG And Most Of The Sexism Can Be Dismissed As Humorously Picaresque, Also I'm A Male Chauvinist, But Dragon Age Has Worried Me With Hints Of Bad Voicing, Script And Setting, While The Sexually Exploitative Elements Are Only About As Annoying As The Gratuitous Gore That, Like The Sex, Appears Indicative Of A Pervasive Over-Reliance On Cheaply Provocative Hooks'

However this shit is getting too thick to stir.

 

[Kadayi]

1,2) First off, you're ragging on Dragon Age because of sex scenes which for all we know, are not mandatory, and yet defending the Witcher because its sex scenes were not mandatory. You're bitching out a game because there are probably optional things you can do that you don't have to utilize unless you actively choose too, which according to yourself, is laughable.

I suggest you read fully what I wrote again. My concerns with Dragon Age have nothing to do with Sex scenes in DA: O (of which I'm sure there are some in the same vein as ME) but more to do with the purile Chainmail Bikini presentation of the female characters in the game, which I feel is a big negative for the medium as a whole, in terms of the wider picture (games are childish). If it's a 'great' game is there any need to dress the female characters like they all fell out of an episode of Zena Warrior Princess? There is no choice in this presentation btw, it's how the developers elected to go. Yes it's supposed to be an adult game, but lets dress the women like they are out of a 12 year olds imagination. Good job Bioware.

With respect to the Witcher I find the accusations of misogyny off, because it doesn't apply. There is no hatred of women shown in the game, and that is what misogyny means. The only people who think this are those who haven't played the game and have little grasp as to the words accurate use and meaning.

As for Eejit I suspect he's more a liar than a pirate, because frankly his grasp of The Witcher seems like it was lifted purely from Yatzees off base 'review' than from actual first hand experience of the game, esp given he falls into the same trap with respect to the misuse of the word misogyny.

 

[Eejit]

No how about you explain them? Because frankly so far I'm not seeing you actually having much of a leg to stand on here, given how much you shifted position. If the best you can do now is pile in with fanboi accusations I'd say your pretty much done. There's a lot of things I don't like about the Witcher, but the good far outweighs the bad, and personally I'm looking forward to the inevitable sequel because it's going to be interesting to see how they build upon the first game.

I've shifted position? "It's objectionable" - "It's not as bad as rapeplay" - "It doesn't matter because you aren't rewarded" - "It doesn't matter because souls don't exist" - "LOL :dozey: ur scard of nipplz!!2 LOL :dozey:" - "Nudity is only demeaning depending on context [implying the context in the game isn't demeaning?] -"Because they're optional they're irrelevant"
Grow up.

The oh-so-subtle difference which you can't seem to grasp is that ME rewards an achievement for completing any of the possible romances (which I still object to, just less strongly) whereas the Witcher gives you trophies for one-night stands with a series of women, including whores. You really don't see a difference there?

LOL. It's entirely possible to kill quite a few of your comrades in Biowares games & you get rewarded for doing so. How revolting that they give you such options to kill your friends? But of course its all about player choice isn't it. In The Witcher you get to choose whether you sleep with any of the women. Choice who'd of thought it :dozey:

Are you given trophies for killing your friends? A virtual "high-five bro, you totally betrayed and murdered him" - but for banging virtual chicks instead of slaughter? If you were you'd see a shitstorm, even if it was only down to "choice".
The other difference is that random murder of ones friends isn't much of a problem in society, rampant sexism is. But I guess the promotion of such attitudes is less of a negative for you than whatever peeves you have with the gameplay is.

LOL, 6 & 14 being the ever reliable wikipedia entries. I think I'll go with the academic dictionaries :dozey:

LOL :dozey: Because a direct translation from Ancient Greek is so much more relevant to spoken English.

And in case you hadn't noticed I'm trying to point out (probably to subtley, hence this explanation) that starting most of your paragraphs with "LOL" and ending them with a smiley doesn't leave you much of a leg to stand on when it comes to attacking your opponent for possibly imperfect use of english in an argument. LOL. :dozey:.
Along with the personal attacks which you inevitably start it's also a rather obvious sign of when even you realise your position is wearing thin.

So now your deriding a mechanic? Shifting the goal posts again? First it was the game, then it was the storyline, then it was the Devs, now its the mechanic? LOL when will it end :dozey:

LOL :dozey: Feature rather than mechanic, I misspoke. It's the feature the devs implemented as part of the game.
When did I blame the storyline exactly?
Anyway that doesn't matter because, er, souls don't exist, or it's optional, or you aren't rewarded for it, or ...something.

Well if you'd actually played it (which given your hysterical comments about card collecting like its Mario I'm increasingly beginning to doubt like Gargantou) you might well understand where we are coming from. Why it's a good RPG has everything to do with the way the game plays and unfolds and nothing to do with the sex cards. It's a pity your clearly too uptight to understand these things, because you are missing out on a great 'must play' RPG, that has a lot going for it in terms of storyline, characters and situations Vs most.

I've played enough and watched enough on my ex-flatmate's PC to be completely turned off it.
I'm sure it is a good RPG on some levels. I never said it wasn't. I said I would never buy it and the sexism in it is so much worse than that we've seen from the unreleased DA: O (so far) that criticising the latter on this basis while praising the former is sheer hypocrisy. Double standards, from you?!
Hard to see why you might be accused of fanboyism here. Of course you would never do such a thing, certainly not labelling anyone who wanted to see a particular film as automatically being mindless fanboys of the director. Right?

Oh and, LOL; :dozey:

 

[CptStern]

/me ruminates, not for the first time, upon how to go about opening up another front in this conflict. One along the theme of: 'The Witcher Is Definitely Sexist With All Its Uniformly-Zeppelin-Titted Ho-bags Although I Don't Care Overmuch Because It's Also A Great RPG And Most Of The Sexism Can Be Dismissed As Humorously Picaresque, Also I'm A Male Chauvinist, But Dragon Age Has Worried Me With Hints Of Bad Voicing, Script And Setting, While The Sexually Exploitative Elements Are Only About As Annoying As The Gratuitous Gore That, Like The Sex, Appears Indicative Of A Pervasive Over-Reliance On Cheaply Provocative Hooks'

However this shit is getting too thick to stir.

it's like you read my mind ...except you omitted the part where I'm a pirate

 

[Kadayi]

I've shifted position?

Yes, you have.

Because a direct translation from Ancient Greek is so much more relevant to spoken English.

You've been weighed and measured and found wanting with your lazy misuse of the word misogyny, get over it. People bandy around inappropriate words all the time, that they do doesn't make what they say applicable though.

The oh-so-subtle difference which you can't seem to grasp is that ME rewards an achievement for completing any of the possible romances (which I still object to, just less strongly) whereas the Witcher gives you trophies for one-night stands with a series of women, including whores. You really don't see a difference there?

What occurs is moot, that's merely a reflection of the games setting. ME rewards you with ingame experience, where as The Witcher doesn't. If you want to maximise your playing experience you have every incentive to complete the in game romance in ME, the necessity to do the same in The Witcher is down to personal choice. The Cards are not an inherent or important mechanic of the game, as you seem to think and claim. If you'd played it you'd realise this, but of course you quite clearly didn't play it or you'd understand this.

I've played enough and watched enough on my ex-flatmate's PC to be completely turned off it.

See above.

Truth of the matter is its a 70 hour game and there's not much opportunity for 'card' collecting in the first 2 acts, instead there's a lot of quests. So this idea that its all about the card collecting doesn't hold up. Hell, they didn't even push the sex aspect in the marketing, or the packaging.

 

[Eejit]

The Cards are not an inherent or important mechanic of the game, as you seem to think and claim. If you'd played it you'd realise this, but of course you quite clearly didn't play it or you'd understand this.


Truth of the matter is its a 70 hour game and there's not much opportunity for 'card' collecting in the first 2 acts, instead there's a lot of quests. So this idea that its all about the card collecting doesn't hold up. Hell, they didn't even push the sex aspect in the marketing, or the packaging.

Strawman now? When did I say it was pushed, or necessary, or inherent to the game rather than the exact opposite? I never did, if you'd read my posts you'd realise this, but of course you quite clearly didn't read them or you'd understand this.
You're simply pathetic. I'll take your failure to respond to the accusation of hypocrisy as acceptance.

The fact that the cards are completely extraneous only makes their inclusion worse. You are collecting topless pictures of your conquests - because the devs thought it would be fun.

"It only happens if you make it happen" - sure, but it was put in the game. The cards are there to reward that behaviour and attitude, just because it's optional hardly makes that any less revolting.


A mechanic doesn't need to be compulsory in order to be derided.

 

[VictimOfScience]

Yeah, I don't like the way this has been marketed at all. Even the World Series ad was lame and makes it look totally different from what 90% of the experience will be like (i.e. not cut scenes). EA is just a bastard of an entity now it seems. They are steering this game towards the mindless bloody gore teenage killer emo gamers and it irks the shit out of me. Baldur's Gate didn't have to be marketed this way, nor Planescape. They were both mature games and dealt with some VERY adult themes that these little shits could not even begin to wrap their tiny tweenage brains around. Still, I bet this won't cause half the controversy of the next GTA. :hmph:

 

[CptStern]

Yeah, I don't like the way this has been marketed at all. Even the World Series ad was lame and makes it look totally different from what 90% of the experience will be like (i.e. not cut scenes). EA is just a bastard of an entity now it seems. They are steering this game towards the mindless bloody gore teenage killer emo gamers and it irks the shit out of me. Baldur's Gate didn't have to be marketed this way, nor Planescape.

those games cost far less to develop and they need to appeal to a wider audience than your traditional pc rpg gamer. I dont care about the marketing so long as it's not indicative of the game

They were both mature games and dealt with some VERY adult themes that these little shits could not even begin to wrap their tiny tweenage brains around. Still, I bet this won't cause half the controversy of the next GTA. :hmph:

adult themes are not a selling feature unless by "adult" they mean blood and titties ...which the ads went out of the way to show they have it in the game

I know what you're saying and I completely agree with you ...BUT we're not the target audience because we're already sold on the concept.. I hate how these pc genres that appealed to adults are being dumbed down to appeal to a wider audience but this is the reality of gaming today. people didnt have to support console gaming, but they did so now we have to settle with being second fiddle to the hyperactive/ADHD gamer/console crowd

 

[VictimOfScience]

people didnt have to support console gaming, but they did so now we have to settle with being second fiddle to the hyperactive/ADHD gamer/console crowd

EXACTLY how I feel. The good part about all this is that it sounds like the PC version will be the best version out there. Glad they at least stayed true to their roots with the actual game and it's original audience to an extent, as you too appreciate. :cheers:

 

[CptStern]

I 'm crossing my fingers they dont have oversized menus clearly made for a console etc but as you suggest I'm more interested in appealing to people who appreciate a complex adult oriented game that doesnt just mean T & A

 

[VictimOfScience]

I 'm crossing my fingers they dont have oversized menus clearly made for a console etc but as you suggest I'm more interested in appealing to people who appreciate a complex adult oriented game that doesnt just mean T & A

The interfaces for the console versions and the PC version look rather different, so I think we won't be stuck in a case like we were with Oblivion where the menus were huge and awful so as to be easier to control with a joypad. Thankfully, it looks like the PC version has been created in the best possible way to take advantage of the keyboard and mouse of the PC and the console versions have had to be shoe-horned to be at all usable for the joypad/console crowd. :thumbs:

But yeah, leave the T/A out for all I care--just gimme a great RPG with awesome gameplay and a great story!!!

 

[Kadayi]

Strawman now? When did I say it was pushed, or necessary, or inherent to the game rather than the exact opposite? I never did, if you'd read my posts you'd realise this, but of course you quite clearly didn't read them or you'd understand this.
You're simply pathetic. I'll take your failure to respond to the accusation of hypocrisy as acceptance.

The Witcher: In depth RPG with naughty stuff going on in places. Your engagement with it entirely subject to your choice. Want to collect frankly rather pretty tame pictures of women in alluring poses, or not your choice. Were the cards a bad idea? I'd say so. However they didn't spoil my enjoyment of the game or interfere with my behaviour when playing, nor do they contribute to why it is a great game.

Dragon Age: Origins. In depth RPG with naughty stuff going on in places. Your engagement with it dictated to you completely by the developers. Despite the fact that the Chainmail Bikini school of female clothing is utterly risible and is a kick in the teeth to those of us out there hoping games might move beyond being perpetually adolescent, no here is Bioware to haul us back 10 years with some dubious clothing choices for their characters. GJ Drs

Lets go back to John Walkers review here:-

"Thus begins Dragon age, one of the most enormous and astonishing of games. It's an unashamed high-fantasy RPG, rooted in the most traditional soil, yet set in a highly original world."

by saying unashamed he's straight out both acknowledging the atrocity that is the styling, and at the same time giving it a pass which is kind of unacceptable tbh, given how backwards it is.

As for acknowledging hypocrisy, given Krynn was wholly off base with the direction of his post, there didn't seem much point in going into it further beyond pointing out the initial error. Still one will assume that given your silence on the matter as to how little you really played The Witcher that mine and Gargantous' suspicions that you've not even played it at all is entirely correct then.

 

[Eejit]

The Witcher: In depth RPG with naughty stuff going on in places. Your engagement with it entirely subject to your choice. Want to collect frankly rather pretty tame pictures of women in alluring poses, or not your choice. Were the cards a bad idea? I'd say so. However they didn't spoil my enjoyment of the game or interfere with my behaviour when playing, nor do they contribute to why it is a great game.

Dragon Age: Origins. In depth RPG with naughty stuff going on in places. Your engagement with it dictated to you completely by the developers. Despite the fact that the Chainmail Bikini school of female clothing is utterly risible and is a kick in the teeth to those of us out there hoping games might move beyond being perpetually adolescent, no here is Bioware to haul us back 10 years with some dubious clothing choices for their characters. GJ Drs

Lets go back to John Walkers review here:-

"Thus begins Dragon age, one of the most enormous and astonishing of games. It's an unashamed high-fantasy RPG, rooted in the most traditional soil, yet set in a highly original world."

by saying unashamed he's straight out both acknowledging the atrocity that is the styling, and at the same time giving it a pass which is kind of unacceptable tbh, given how backwards it is.

As for acknowledging hypocrisy, given Krynn was wholly off base with the direction of his post, there didn't seem much point in going into it further beyond pointing out the initial error. Still one will assume that given your silence on the matter as to how little you really played The Witcher that mine and Gargantous' suspicions that you've not even played it at all is entirely correct then.

Wow. Where to begin.
So the fact that DA: O has some characters with clothes as revealing as those worn by several in the Witcher means the "collect trophies for banging virtual chicks" minigame is fine. Of course, low-cut tops and other revealing outfits are only adolescent if Bioware do it.

Next there's your personal interpretation of a quote which can be read in several ways. Of course you see it in the worst way possible as confirmation of your pre-existing opinions. Not exactly out of character for you. Yawn.

Then there are two examples of failing to read my posts (something you seem to love as an excuse for :dozey:ing whenever someone does it with yours). I called you a hypocrite as well and oddly enough it's my accusation I'm more concerned with than Krynn's, and I've already outlined on at least two the extent of my first-hand experience with the Witcher and one of the reasons I am uninterested in indulging in any more.

First rate, really.

Now, feel free to have the last word - I'm done with this. Your hypocrisy and insatiable need to confirm whatever your first impressions are when it comes to assessing media are as vaguely nauseating as your double-standards at what constitutes reasonable debate when discussing them.

LOL :dozey:

I for one shall withhold judgement until I get at least some first hand experience. Maybe you should try that sometime.