Hobbies

[sinkoman]

Yeah well I never used to consider a small slide a big deal.

Picture the scene: 21st October. A bright, sunny, yet cold autumn day. I'm going up and down my favourite road trying to get my knee down on my favourite bends. After a few "laps", I chuck it over into the corner at 60 and the knee misses, but the rear slides around and the footpeg digs in instead - then it regrips. I think nothing of it and try again.
Next go round, I'm approaching the same corner, holding it steady at 60mph, reach my turn in point and slam the bars in the right direction...
Bike starts to track around the bend when the rear slides again. Only, this time, it doesn't regrip and both myself and the machine get catapulted violently into the scenery.

I'm fortunate to be here at all to tell you this boring story. Slides ain't cool.

Slides in the dirt aren't nearly as scary as slides on the street.

I've never had a real slide on the street, i'm not comfortable enough yet with my bike on the street to toy around with the limits of grip. Fastest i've averaged through the local ocean cliff twisty section is a mild 45

But you have to realize that offroad, you're rarely ever going over 30. Well, the trails I ride at least. Hell, the trails I ride, you're lucky to get over 10-20. What I ride is tight, technical, muddy, and SLOOW. Those with razor sharp balance and clutch control reign supreme on my turf.

But even still, on the wide open fire roads of the mainland, you're rarely going 60+. And again, when you are going 60+, the slides are allot less scary than those on a street bike, because you're riding a 200 pound bike that seats about as upright as an office chair. I've never tossed my leg across a streetbike before, but i'd imagine that you've got allot more control over a 200 pound upright torque machine than a 300+ pound lay-on-the-tank rocket ship.

Hell, look at supermotos. A 450 SM will smoke even the quickest of streetbikes in the twisties with absolutely no troubles whatsoever. It's because of the way dirtbikes handle, they're allot more nimble, quick, and flickable. They're designed to slide into hairpins, and roost around berms.

And even if you did fall, it's allot easier to fall onto soft mud or dirt, than it is to fall onto concrete.

 

[VirusType2]

Bottom line, bikes are mad ****ing dangerous. Don't kid yourselves. I saw this guy going only about 15 or 20 miles an hour on the street and front braked' too hard. The front wheel locked and he was thrown off and rolled and flipped for like 100 yards. His helmet was thrown off while flipping. I guess it wasn't strapped on tight. He wasn't moving.

I went into the McDonalds into the corner there and ordered the person in charge to call the ambulance.

He was airlifted in front of a big scene. I would assume he lived, but he wasn't moving when he left.

I felt like it was my fault. My old car was the hottest thing on the planet right after new wheels and paint and my system could be heard for 1 mile and it was full volume. I swear he turned his head to check me out while he stopped for the light and thats when he launched off the front of the bike.

 

[French Ninja]

Woodworking(not as much anymore), playing music, learning foreign languages, general flirting with opposite sex

need moar things to do

 

[VirusType2]

****, for a split second I thought those nails were like gross millipede and centipede bugs or something.

*shivers*

me too.

nom nom nom nom

Of course I rap Dog--; I thought you knew.
You could've searched for yourself but I did the work for you.

The great freestyle rap thread of 2007

Man, I have to get in on that next time. I missed it. 2008?

 

[aarathi]

Stamp collection
coin collection
making toys
surfing in internent etc

 

[sinkoman]

Bottom line, bikes are mad ****ing dangerous. Don't kid yourselves. I saw this guy going only about 15 or 20 miles an hour on the street and front braked' too hard. The front wheel locked and he was thrown off and rolled and flipped for like 100 yards. His helmet was thrown off while flipping. I guess it wasn't strapped on tight. He wasn't moving.

I went into the McDonalds into the corner there and ordered the person in charge to call the ambulance.

He was airlifted in front of a big scene. I would assume he lived, but he wasn't moving when he left.

I felt like it was my fault. My old car was the hottest thing on the planet right after new wheels and paint and my system could be heard for 1 mile and it was full volume. I swear he turned his head to check me out while he stopped for the light and thats when he launched off the front of the bike.

Well, my prayers to his family, but he's still a ****ing moron.

Hard braking situation, your first instinct should be your rear brake whilst easing onto your front. Snap onto your front like that and you're asking to be killed, especially on a street bike, what with their dual 320mm rotors and 6 piston calipers. It's like asking somebody to drop a boulder in front of you.

 

[VirusType2]

Well, my prayers to his family, but he's still a ****ing moron.

Hard braking situation, your first instinct should be your rear brake whilst easing onto your front. Snap onto your front like that and you're asking to be killed, especially on a street bike, what with their dual 320mm rotors and 6 piston calipers. It's like asking somebody to drop a boulder in front of you.

I think the problem was that they had very recently painted these really wide lines at the light (it was a new light at that intersection, and I guess they wanted the paint to last), they put the paint on so thick that none of the road surface was exposed, and so the paint was slick enough to make the front wheel slide under the heavy braking instead of slowing. Normally that white line at the light is only like 6 inches isn't it? This one was about 2 feet wide, so his entire wheel had 2 feet to slide before it even had a chance of finally catching traction after passing over the line.

I was watching closely because I was stuck at the red light perpendicular to him at the intersection, and there was another bike at the light on the lane next to him who had already come to a stop, which caught my attention. The road was new as well. Another factor - maybe he didn't notice the light was red right away, making him brake suddenly.

This was like 8 years ago BTW.

 

[Stigmata]

I thought everyone knew not to brake too hard on the front brakes.

 

[Pesmerga]

I masturbate.

That's as far as I go with hobbies.

 

[Cheomesh]

Wrong.

Dunno if you're serious, though.

:|

It's from the Portal teaser movie.

 

[Phobie]

I thought everyone knew not to brake too hard on the front brakes.

Wait...what?

 

[Krynn72]

I dont have hobbies.

 

[repiV]

Slides in the dirt aren't nearly as scary as slides on the street.

I've never had a real slide on the street, i'm not comfortable enough yet with my bike on the street to toy around with the limits of grip. Fastest i've averaged through the local ocean cliff twisty section is a mild 45

It's very easy to induce a slide in the wet. Gentle application of the rear brake will often result in the rear snaking around.

But you have to realize that offroad, you're rarely ever going over 30. Well, the trails I ride at least. Hell, the trails I ride, you're lucky to get over 10-20. What I ride is tight, technical, muddy, and SLOOW. Those with razor sharp balance and clutch control reign supreme on my turf.

But even still, on the wide open fire roads of the mainland, you're rarely going 60+. And again, when you are going 60+, the slides are allot less scary than those on a street bike, because you're riding a 200 pound bike that seats about as upright as an office chair. I've never tossed my leg across a streetbike before, but i'd imagine that you've got allot more control over a 200 pound upright torque machine than a 300+ pound lay-on-the-tank rocket ship.

I'm not really sure what you mean by "more control", but I can't see that you would have any more control over one than the other.

Hell, look at supermotos. A 450 SM will smoke even the quickest of streetbikes in the twisties with absolutely no troubles whatsoever. It's because of the way dirtbikes handle, they're allot more nimble, quick, and flickable. They're designed to slide into hairpins, and roost around berms.

A supermoto will not smoke a sportsbike in the twisties. I guarantee you that. Sportsbikes are designed for racetrack use and then adapted as road bikes - some bikes like the Honda Fireblade have quite a road-going bias, whereas the Kawasaki Ninjas are hardcore racing machines. Extremely unforgiving.
When I first got on my friend's R6, I kept oversteering it because it just turned in so damn quickly. These kinds of bikes do need more skill to ride quickly than a supermoto/other kinds of upright bike however, the riding position usually means you have to really manhandle the bike into a corner rather than just push it over, and psychologically it's more challenging because it feels like you're falling into the tarmac. Plus, the sheer amount of power available can result in disaster if you don't apply it sensibly. Most of these bikes will chuck the front wheel high in the air if you open the throttle too quickly, and at high lean angles even a slight amount of inappropriate acceleration will have you off.
The way they're designed to be quick-steering also means that the front often feels very flighty and unstable, and prone to tankslappers.
I think a lot of people kill themselves because they jump on a sportsbike when they really aren't ready for it.
I prefer sports-tourers though, they're nearly as good as sportsbikes in that regard, but they're much more suited to road use - comfortable, the mirrors aren't useless, they have a decent tank range, much better in traffic, bad weather conditions etc. They do everything well, whereas sportsbikes only do one thing well. I'd probably love riding a big supermoto, but they tend to be pretty expensive and the lack of fairing would piss me off. I do a lot of high speed long-distance riding.

And even if you did fall, it's allot easier to fall onto soft mud or dirt, than it is to fall onto concrete.

Well if you fall off in a corner and there's ample runoff you're not likely to hurt yourself in either case, the impact speed is from the height of the bike to the ground - the speed you were travelling is irrelevant. It's only when you slide into a solid object or highside that you've got trouble.
But in motocross, they do all those crazy jumps and if you misjudged that or fell off there, you could easily pick up some really nasty injuries.

Bottom line, bikes are mad ****ing dangerous. Don't kid yourselves. I saw this guy going only about 15 or 20 miles an hour on the street and front braked' too hard. The front wheel locked and he was thrown off and rolled and flipped for like 100 yards. His helmet was thrown off while flipping. I guess it wasn't strapped on tight. He wasn't moving.

I went into the McDonalds into the corner there and ordered the person in charge to call the ambulance.

He was airlifted in front of a big scene. I would assume he lived, but he wasn't moving when he left.

I felt like it was my fault. My old car was the hottest thing on the planet right after new wheels and paint and my system could be heard for 1 mile and it was full volume. I swear he turned his head to check me out while he stopped for the light and thats when he launched off the front of the bike.

It's not a nice story, but that's not evidence of the danger of bikes. It's a lesson in knowing how to control a bike properly and also how to do up your well-fitting helmet correctly. As I understand it, in the USA, all you have to do in most states to acquire a full motorcycle license is pass a written test. So it's no wonder people do stupid things.
Here, we have the toughest driving test in the world and the motorcycle test is quite a bit more difficult. It's still nowhere near good enough to stop far too many people killing and maiming themselves in totally avoidable accidents, but people go away knowing the foundations at least.

 

[repiV]

Well, my prayers to his family, but he's still a ****ing moron.

Hard braking situation, your first instinct should be your rear brake whilst easing onto your front. Snap onto your front like that and you're asking to be killed, especially on a street bike, what with their dual 320mm rotors and 6 piston calipers. It's like asking somebody to drop a boulder in front of you.

Mate, I'm afraid that's completely and utterly incorrect.
The rear brake on a motorbike is next to useless because braking results in the weight being transferred to the front of the machine. That's why the front brakes on modern motorcycles are so much more powerful than the rear. It's also why shaving off speed in a corner can result in a rear slide.
Hard braking should come 90% from the front. The key is to squeeze it, not snatch it. Grab a handful of either brake and you'll have problems. Apply it progressively until the lever is pulled all the way in and you'll stop quickly with no problems. You should start with the front and then begin to progressively apply the rear about a second later.

I think the problem was that they had very recently painted these really wide lines at the light (it was a new light at that intersection, and I guess they wanted the paint to last), they put the paint on so thick that none of the road surface was exposed, and so the paint was slick enough to make the front wheel slide under the heavy braking instead of slowing. Normally that white line at the light is only like 6 inches isn't it? This one was about 2 feet wide, so his entire wheel had 2 feet to slide before it even had a chance of finally catching traction after passing over the line.

I was watching closely because I was stuck at the red light perpendicular to him at the intersection, and there was another bike at the light on the lane next to him who had already come to a stop, which caught my attention. The road was new as well. Another factor - maybe he didn't notice the light was red right away, making him brake suddenly.

This was like 8 years ago BTW.

Yeah, paint on the road is a bastard. In the wet, it's almost as bad as ice. The worst is when they paint "SLOW" right in the middle of a ****ing corner.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

It USED to be better. Now they're both rubbish.

They raped my Empire :<

Lies. My Fimir are still awesome :angry:

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Cheomesh]

Lies. My Fimir are still awesome :angry:

-Angry Lawyer

Eh? Fimir?

 

[Angry Lawyer]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fimir

I use them with the Beasts of Chaos rules.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Cheomesh]

Bah.

When 7th edition came out, I went all out and bought up matierals for a new game table, scenery, etc.

Ordered the Bix Box, got some pieces from other armies so I could tempt local people to play.

Get my big box...and the new Empire is suck. They went from Holy Roman Empire to..."WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! THE WORLD IS SO GOTH!" bullshit.

 

[VirusType2]

Nails are for pussies. I eat dogs.

I eat pussy, shit nails, and wipe my ass with dogs.


See if you can top that, bitches. :smoking:

Here, we have the toughest driving test in the world and the motorcycle test is quite a bit more difficult.

I'm not sure that is true. I see you are living in London. I was watching Modern Marvels - The Autobahn. I think they claimed that Germany has the toughest (or most thorough, at least) driving tests in the world.

 

[Phobie]

I eat pussy, shit nails, and wipe my ass with dogs.


See if you can top that, bitches. :smoking:

I eat nails, shit dogs and wipe my ass with...pu..ss...y..

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

I shit pussies, dog eats, and wipe my ass with then **** nails...

me too.

nom nom nom nom



Man, I have to get in on that next time. I missed it. 2008?

March 2008.

 

[Stigmata]

I eat wipes, shit pussies, and nail my ass with dogs.

 

[Phobie]

I eat wipes, shit pussies, and nail my ass with dogs.

Winner.

 

[evil^milk]

I eat ass, nail pussies, and wipe my dogs with shit.

 

[Stigmata]

I wipe nails, shit asses, and eat my dogs with pussies.

 

[repiV]

I'm not sure that is true. I see you are living in London. I was watching Modern Marvels - The Autobahn. I think they claimed that Germany has the toughest (or most thorough, at least) driving tests in the world.

*shrug*

It's widely accepted that Britain has the toughest driving standards in the world. Until recently (the result of an obsessive focus on automated speed enforcement and the rather misleading message that if you slow down, you'll be safe), we had the safest roads in the world too. Remarkable considering the volume of traffic here - 27 million cars in a country the size of Florida.
In any case, I think it's shocking that in so much of the world you can just jump on a motorbike and ride it away without any real training. They're so much more difficult to operate than a car, the environment (traffic and road conditions) poses so much more of a threat to you as a rider and the consequences of making an error in judgement are far more severe.
Very little about operating a bike is common sense, either - most people think they steer their bikes by leaning them, but that's bollocks. The ONLY way to steer a bike is by turning the handlebars, and this is a misconception that costs many lives each year because riders don't know how to swerve or take corners effectively.
I didn't know, until I read a book on the subject, that you're supposed to accelerate all the way around a bend in order to keep the rear tyre loaded in order to increase traction.
There's just so much to riding, and people are taught too little, too late. It needs to change.

 

[VirusType2]

I didn't know, until I read a book on the subject, that you're supposed to accelerate all the way around a bend in order to keep the rear tyre loaded in order to increase traction.

Similarly with cars... if you are taking a corner at a high speed, the worst thing you can do is press the brakes. I see people do it all the time. You can get away with it if you aren't going too fast of course, but driving error like this can really show up when driving in rain or snow.

People quite simply don't know how to drive. They don't understand the forces at work, and think that all they need to know is gas, brake, and steer.

I usually take it out of gear if I'm going like 3x the speed limit through a turn, since my car is front wheel drive. This keeps the car stable with traction on all four wheels. Leaving it in gear causes engine braking to the front wheels under deceleration.

With front wheel drive cars, you don't want to accelerate hard in a sharp turn at speed, or the car will plow. (understeer)

Hitting the brakes in a turn puts the weight on the front of the car, making the rear lose grip. (oversteer) or spin out even.

In turns you want to keep your actions smooth regardless of car or bike type. Sudden acceleration, braking, or steering could cause the car to lose control (lose grip)


I'm an professional driver so be sure some of you guys know what you are talking about if you want to dispute any of this.

Not sure why I typed all of this. bored?

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

I wipe nails, shit asses, and eat my dogs with pussies.

I wipe Phobie's ass, shit nails into your pussy and eat your cat's babies. Also dogs.

 

[Cheomesh]

I wipe Phobie's ass, shit nails into your pussy and eat your cat's babies. Also dogs.

:O:O:|:O

 

[Vegeta897]

:naughty::naughty::naughty::naughty:

Edited for true reaction.

 

[repiV]

Similarly with cars... if you are taking a corner at a high speed, the worst thing you can do is press the brakes. I see people do it all the time. You can get away with it if you aren't going too fast of course, but driving error like this can really show up when driving in rain or snow.

People quite simply don't know how to drive. They don't understand the forces at work, and think that all they need to know is gas, brake, and steer.

I usually take it out of gear if I'm going like 3x the speed limit through a turn, since my car is front wheel drive. This keeps the car stable with traction on all four wheels. Leaving it in gear causes engine braking to the front wheels under deceleration.

With front wheel drive cars, you don't want to accelerate hard in a sharp turn at speed, or the car will plow. (understeer)

Hitting the brakes in a turn puts the weight on the front of the car, making the rear lose grip. (oversteer) or spin out even.

In turns you want to keep your actions smooth regardless of car or bike type. Sudden acceleration, braking, or steering could cause the car to lose control (lose grip)


I'm an professional driver so be sure some of you guys know what you are talking about if you want to dispute any of this.

Not sure why I typed all of this. bored?

Probably bored.

There's some key differences here though. The vast majority of people drive low performance cars, and drive them very sedately indeed.
Yet most bikers have high-performance bikes, and ride them quickly - so the errors are a serious problem. You can get a bike that will wipe the floor with a Porsche 911 for under 1000 pounds. 1.2 litre money, and much cheaper to insure and fuel than a 1.2 aswell.

Also, if you lose traction in a car, it's not likely to have any major consequences. If you lose traction on a bike, you'll be in intensive care if you're lucky and the morgue if you're not.

Incidentally, I too get frustrated by the inane cornering techniques of most drivers. They crawl round the bend at ridiculously low speeds with their brake lights constantly flashing. The average standard of driving is so far below the average standard of riding it's untrue.

 

[Dog--]

What have I started?

 

[highlander]

I masturbate. That's basically it.

 

[Seppo]

Are you good at it?

 

[sinkoman]

Mate, I'm afraid that's completely and utterly incorrect.
The rear brake on a motorbike is next to useless because braking results in the weight being transferred to the front of the machine. That's why the front brakes on modern motorcycles are so much more powerful than the rear. It's also why shaving off speed in a corner can result in a rear slide.
Hard braking should come 90% from the front. The key is to squeeze it, not snatch it. Grab a handful of either brake and you'll have problems. Apply it progressively until the lever is pulled all the way in and you'll stop quickly with no problems. You should start with the front and then begin to progressively apply the rear about a second later.

Yeah... Ease onto it...

I don't quite understand how I was incorrect? To my knowledge, it's basically just "on-off" with the rear, because while you don't WANT to lock it, it's definitely not TOO big of a deal if you do.

Dunno, maybe i've just gotten too used to braking in the dirt :/

 

[sinkoman]

I'm not really sure what you mean by "more control", but I can't see that you would have any more control over one than the other.

Whipping a 200 pound bike into a corner as opposed to a 300 pound bike. I don't see how you'd have just as much control over the 300 pound bike as with the 200 pound bike.

A supermoto will not smoke a sportsbike in the twisties. I guarantee you that.

Oh yes it will. I know it may seem hard to believe, but it WILL smoke a sportsbike in the twisties. On a sumo, you can carry far more speed into the corner than on a sports bike, and the power curve is alot lower, so you've got alot more low end to get you out of the corner quicker.

A sportsbike will spank a sumo on the track, no doubt about it. But sumos do far better in the tight stuff.

Well if you fall off in a corner and there's ample runoff you're not likely to hurt yourself in either case, the impact speed is from the height of the bike to the ground - the speed you were travelling is irrelevant. It's only when you slide into a solid object or highside that you've got trouble.
But in motocross, they do all those crazy jumps and if you misjudged that or fell off there, you could easily pick up some really nasty injuries.

Yeah, but you'll travel alot farther along the ground and with alot more force in a 60 mph lowside, than in a 30 mph lowside.

 

[Cheomesh]

You could also take up metal working if you've monies.

 

[Angry Lawyer]

Bah.

When 7th edition came out, I went all out and bought up matierals for a new game table, scenery, etc.

Ordered the Bix Box, got some pieces from other armies so I could tempt local people to play.

Get my big box...and the new Empire is suck. They went from Holy Roman Empire to..."WE'RE ALL GOING TO DIE! THE WORLD IS SO GOTH!" bullshit.

But that's why EBay exists
Plus, you can file off the excess skulls.

-Angry Lawyer

 

[Cheomesh]

No, I mean the fluff too. It's horrid :<

 

[repiV]

Yeah... Ease onto it...

I don't quite understand how I was incorrect? To my knowledge, it's basically just "on-off" with the rear, because while you don't WANT to lock it, it's definitely not TOO big of a deal if you do.

Dunno, maybe i've just gotten too used to braking in the dirt :/

Well for a start, you said to start with the rear and ease onto the front, but it's the other way around. The front provides virtually all your stopping power, the rear is mostly for stability and slow control. If you're afraid to use the front brake, you're going to get very badly hurt someday. The rear is good at adjusting your speed when riding slowly and at bringing the bike to a dignified stop, but if you're travelling at any real speed you literally won't notice any effect on your speed from using the rear brake. The front brakes on modern bikes are designed to bring you to a complete stop from over 150mph in the space of a few seconds - use them.
Also, if you treat the rear brake like a lightswitch, you'll have problems - stamp on that thing and you'll be off. Especially in bad weather, over bad road surfaces or when you're not upright. I had a Bandit 600 for a while as an insurance bike, and that was the worst for it - apparently because it's got real cheap rear suspension. Even the slightest touch in the wet would have the rear dancing.
I'm guessing you haven't really ridden in the wet - there's far less grip available and you have to be very smooth and progressive with every input. Manhole covers and other things on the road become as slippery as sheet ice - they offer no grip whatsoever.

Whipping a 200 pound bike into a corner as opposed to a 300 pound bike. I don't see how you'd have just as much control over the 300 pound bike as with the 200 pound bike.

Because less weight doesn't equal more control. I've ridden all kinds of bikes, from the CG125, which weighs about 80 kilos, to the Suzuki TLR1000, which weighs over 200 kilos. If anything, the hardest bikes of all to control are the 125s - they're nowhere near as stable, planted and grippy as a bigger bike.
The Yamaha FZ6 is the newer version of the bike I ride - it's a completely different machine actually, it's much heavier and bulkier (410 pounds). I can't stand the thing, it's got really snatchy fuelling and it's significantly less powerful than the older model amongst other things. But the one thing it does have going for it, is that it handles incredibly well. It flicks over into corners with a beautiful ease I haven't found with any other bike, and I can keep it balanced at a stop with both feet up for about five seconds - which I can't do with any other bike.

Oh yes it will. I know it may seem hard to believe, but it WILL smoke a sportsbike in the twisties. On a sumo, you can carry far more speed into the corner than on a sports bike, and the power curve is alot lower, so you've got alot more low end to get you out of the corner quicker.

A sportsbike will spank a sumo on the track, no doubt about it. But sumos do far better in the tight stuff.

"Twisties" is not a reference to hairpin bends. Twisties are just windy roads, rather like racetracks in fact. The Isle of Man TT is "the twisties", and I don't see people competing there on supermotos.
Also, on a V-Twin sportsbike (like the SV650, TLR1000 or pick a Ducati/Aprilia), the power delivery is linear and equal.
I really don't follow you on the "supermoto will carry far more speed into a corner" lark, that's nonsense. Carrying speed through corners is what sportsbikes are designed for. Perhaps you mean that it will reach full lean angle more quickly, in which case possibly but that's purely down to the weight and will also apply to any low capacity sportsbike you care to pick.
If you're making use of that extreme cornering ability the road, you probably won't live too long anyway. Reaching the limits of grip on a sportsbike or supermoto is not something I would recommend on the street...

Yeah, but you'll travel alot farther along the ground and with alot more force in a 60 mph lowside, than in a 30 mph lowside.

Yes, true.