I need your help! **HL2net Community Event**

That was fun. I really like the verticality of the map. I was counting on red (top) to be having an advantage, but it turned out that it was pretty evened out. If anything, blue almost seems to be at an advantage because it can defend the middle point better. Plus lots of fall deaths but that was to be expected :)
 
Yeah I was surprised when blue won a few times. Could be down to the players on the teams but on some of the level fighting areas they seemed a bit balanced.

I fell to my death quite a few times, its quite funny to see someone land in front of you and die :D

Thanks for the feedback, stuff coming through on the survey is helpful :D
 
I put in my feedback that I thought the middle ground stairs up should be reversed, so blu's have cap defence on the middle ground. Only reason I say this is because of that game where there were a billion sentries outside a red bunker. If reds jumped down at the start of the map as engies, they could have full power sentries up before the full blu force has time to retaliate.

That's the only problem I had with it. Overall it seemed very balanced.
 
MOTHER ****ER! Asshole deleted all my friends, little ****! Damn I wish there was a way to find out who did this.

Oh and the **** changed my username!
 
Sorry to hear that Rizzo. :( I'm doing a second test tomorrow night if you want to take part in that one.

Dek, not sure what you mean. You mean make it so blue gets to the middle faster? I'm in the process of doing so now, just breaking down the demos I have and writing about it in my dissertation first. Going to move blue's spawn down a bit from the middle too, to give red a bit of a chance at recapping the middle.
 
Ren.182 said:
Sorry to hear that Rizzo. :( I'm doing a second test tomorrow night if you want to take part in that one.

Dek, not sure what you mean. You mean make it so blue gets to the middle faster? I'm in the process of doing so now, just breaking down the demos I have and writing about it in my dissertation first. Going to move blue's spawn down a bit from the middle too, to give red a bit of a chance at recapping the middle.
Click to expand...
Yeah a bit faster might be good, but if you're in the middle cap, the stairs' walls act as barriers from the middle-barracks of the blu team. If you remember there was that one game when the reds just built a load of sentries outside their barracks. Blu team wouldn't be able to do this as effectively because of the stairs.
I was about to say by just flipping the barracks colours, blu's would have the sentry advantage, which I think would be more balanced. however you might then have the trouble that the red team, once capped, could camp in their middle-barracks and spam the **** out of the stairs from both sides.

Hmm, it's tough.
 
Yeah I see what you mean now. Blue team at one point did build a sentry farm there and it did do quite well to be honest. I think the main problems are blue team being able to get to the middle faster at the start, and blue teams spawn placements. At the moment blue team have quite long journeys up, which I tried to combat with longer cap times on the blue CP's and shorter ones on the red ones, to give chance for the blue team to climb above and possibly cap.

I'll mess with the blue spawns tomorrow, its clearly the biggest problem.

Going to give cap 4 and 5 (bottom two) more cover because they were easy to cap it seemed too.

Thanks for the feedback, its awesome :D
 
That was fun. There was a pretty good mix of red/blue wins (I was on the winning team every time :angel:) but I reckon the red team could end up having a distinct advantage once players became a little more familiar with the map. The reds can drop in on that central CP and set up shop before the blues can arrive (in theory). I'm pretty sure a red engi could jump down there and put up a sentry outside one of the two red bunkers before the first blue could even get to that central CP.

Plus the higher ground obviously gives the reds an advantage - they're able to defend points from up above with rockets/demomen/snipers. On the second to last blue CP it's pretty easy for the reds to capture it as they can easily look down both ramps to the blue spawns and take out the guys who are running up blind. I reckon it could be a good idea to put the blue spawns on the same level or even above that second to last blue CP.
 
Yeah I plan on moving the initial blue spawn up, probably to those ramps above the second to last spawn, blues should be able to get to the middle in around 5-8 seconds then which should be fine.

Also rather than having the second blue spawn in the middle I'm planning on putting it below the middle (where you go down the ramp with the blue walls) so blue aren't too far from the next point (around 12 seconds with a scout) and they aren't too far from the middle to defend it from the constant red team dropping down.

It has been really hard to balance, like you said Jimmeh, being above generally means you win, but I'm happy with how well the playtest turned out, with some tweaks I feel it could become pretty balanced. :)
 
Just filled out the survey. I think the map was awesome. I included many of my opinions/impressions in the survey.
I think the fighting area around the mid section is fine with regards to the spawn locations. I think the stairs could be changed just a little as it feels like you're completely blind when going up as Blu. That Blu sentry farm was pretty sick, but I don't see it as that big a deal because it's very vulnerable from the upper level. It would be a different story for Red to have that point with that being the only way for Blu to get up.
 
Yeah it's pretty damn good as it is. Moving that initial blue spawn up will probably make all the difference. I just quickly tried it out and as it stands it takes a blue soldier 20 seconds to get from the initial spawn to the centre point. In those 20 seconds a red engi can set up a level 2 sentry outside one of the central red bunkers and could have a level 3 within 30 seconds.
 
You and that baseball of doom. :(

It was mentioned in the game, but one of Blu's equipment lockers in the middle level spawn didn't work.
 
Ren.182 said:
Yeah I see what you mean now. Blue team at one point did build a sentry farm there and it did do quite well to be honest.
Click to expand...
Haha it seems I'm colour-blind. Yeah that was Blu now I remember. hmm... But if you looked at it, you could see reds could still hide behind that wall.
But yeah I dunno now...
 
Thank you some nice feedback in the survey :D

Jimmeh said:
Yeah it's pretty damn good as it is. Moving that initial blue spawn up will probably make all the difference. I just quickly tried it out and as it stands it takes a blue soldier 20 seconds to get from the initial spawn to the centre point. In those 20 seconds a red engi can set up a level 2 sentry outside one of the central red bunkers and could have a level 3 within 30 seconds.
Click to expand...

Yeah it should make it much fairer with blue spawning closer to the middle, and above its second to last point.

Dekstar said:
Haha it seems I'm colour-blind. Yeah that was Blu now I remember. hmm... But if you looked at it, you could see reds could still hide behind that wall.
But yeah I dunno now...
Click to expand...

I feel the middle is fine the way it is at the moment. The blue spawn point in the middle is moving down to the next level down (that empty room) so they cant camp the middle point. The red spawn can stay as they only get that once they have blues second to last CP, so it poses no threat to camping middle CP as they lose it once blue regain their point.
 
Little update guys.

I've moved the blue spawns down from the middle point to the level just below it.
Increased the size of all of the cap zones, except reds second one above the middle point
Moved the spawn point associated with blue final point to the very bottom
Added a spawn points associated with blues second from last point at the top of the ramps surround the point, this should allow blue to get to the middle faster and negate the spawn capping.
Added health and ammo to the map

Test is still planned for tonight again at 9PM London time. If this time isn't as suitable for people it can be moved :)

Hope to see you all online again tonight :D Was fun last night!
 
I'd love to try it out but there's a 99% chance I won't be able to. Has anyone put their demos of the map on youtube? I'd love to see it.
 
I could make some videos if you like. Wont be until the weekend though I don't think.
 
I'll be there for 9pm this time, hope you get a good turnout again.
 
Sweet thanks guys :D

Just trying to figure out the best place to put blues first spawn, I don't really want Red running past that spawn when the head down to blues second CP (below middle). Any ideas guys?
 
Ok, the next version is ready for testing. The test will be held at 9PM London time on the HL2.net TF2 Server TONIGHT

Map download link:
http://rapidshare.com/files/378881649/RenHeightTest02.rar

Server IP: 85.234.148.11:27205

Once we've played if you wouldn't mind filling out this survey about the second map:

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/3WB5V8Q

Changes made:
Health and Ammo added to the level
Added a new spawn point for blue team to allow them to get to the middle point faster
Moved blues spawn point at the middle point down a level
Moved blues spawn point between the last and second blue points to the very bottom
Added cover around and over blues second to last point
Increased the size of all capture zones except reds second to last point
Fixed resupply lockers
Fixed enemies being able to open friendly doors

Hope to see you guys online later :D
If you all want to connect to my mumble server let me know and i'll give out the IP. :)
 
Awesome. 1 hour 20 from the time of this post, guys, if you're interested in joining :)
 
Not sure if I'll be able to make it this time, but I sure will if I can!
 
Im just posting to see the time. The time stamp on the posts don't match my time at all.
 
Thanks Ren. it was fun.
I need to rest now, starting to get a headache from it.

Edit: Damn it, the passing!
 
It's looking a lot more balanced now Ren! Good work.
 
Was blu simply awesome today or did they win every game due to changes you made? Point 4 (counting from the top) seemed more bulky than yesterday.
 
Thank you :)

It did seem red had a much harder time capping the lower points this time around. That'll teach them :D

Yeah, point 4 was more bulky, mainly to stop red from capping 4, then dropping straight down to the last one and capping before blu could respond.

I think the teams may have been a bit unbalanced to be honest. Might help if the top areas were smaller too so red can get around quicker, perhaps?
 
Yeah I think the blue domination was just down to us sucking. :D We didn't really have a good mix of classes whereas the blues usually had a heavy or two with medics in support. That last game was a lot more even until OT. I liked the changes myself - but one thing that might be good though is to shift around the new walls/entrances around the 4th point so the surrounding four blue spawns don't have direct line of sight to the CP. It's kind of hard to cap at the moment but again that might've just been down the teams.
 
It feels like Red has a very long way to run to get to 4th once 3rd is capped. However, although I played on both sides, I wouldn't feel like I could say for certain that it's unbalanced until I played that map a lot more. I can imagine that the last and penultimate Red points could be a nightmare for Blu to cap if red puts up an organised SG defence, which is something neither team really tried tonight.

Whichever way, it's actually an incredibly fun map to play. Normally I never expect much from user made maps, let alone WIPs, but your map surprised me, Ren, since it's a really enjoyable design. The only way that the lack of textures and props detracts is that it's sometimes difficult to find your way due to the lack of pointer arrows.

(I'll pasta a version of this post for the survey too)
 
Wasn't able to play long before I had to jet, but the spawn felt much better for Blu this time. Also the health packs were greatly needed and were well spaced imo.

I think the top levels are pretty good, the cover around Red's lower cap point could use some variation. The thin barriers could use a little depth for more cover.
If you really want to test levels 2 and 4 you could make half maps with 1-3 and 3-5 and play test it to get a really good feel about them.

With the new changes though it does feel much more balanced, I think it could use some more testing changing up the teams every round so see which side, if any, has the advantage.

I also gave some more suggestions in the new survey.
 
Yeah your next objective, after your dissertation, is to finish the visual aspect of it off Ren :p. Then it can go in hl2.net's rotation.
 
Jimmeh said:
Yeah I think the blue domination was just down to us sucking. :D We didn't really have a good mix of classes whereas the blues usually had a heavy or two with medics in support. That last game was a lot more even until OT. I liked the changes myself - but one thing that might be good though is to shift around the new walls/entrances around the 4th point so the surrounding four blue spawns don't have direct line of sight to the CP. It's kind of hard to cap at the moment but again that might've just been down the teams.
Click to expand...

Yeah I noticed Red just had scouts and soldiers really. I'll try arrange some more tests once my Dissertation is done and I can really sit down and work on this if people like it :)

With regards to the spawn points around the 4th point I might reduce the spawn rooms from 4 to 2, so Red aren't getting attack from every direction when they're trying to cap it. I'd need to get some more tests on this :)

Laivasse said:
It feels like Red has a very long way to run to get to 4th once 3rd is capped. However, although I played on both sides, I wouldn't feel like I could say for certain that it's unbalanced until I played that map a lot more. I can imagine that the last and penultimate Red points could be a nightmare for Blu to cap if red puts up an organised SG defence, which is something neither team really tried tonight.

Whichever way, it's actually an incredibly fun map to play. Normally I never expect much from user made maps, let alone WIPs, but your map surprised me, Ren, since it's a really enjoyable design. The only way that the lack of textures and props detracts is that it's sometimes difficult to find your way due to the lack of pointer arrows.

(I'll pasta a version of this post for the survey too)
Click to expand...

Yeah it is quite far for red to get to the 4th cap, but everyone seems pretty happy dropping down to get anywhere quickly, you don't lose too much health and there are health kits now on the way to cap 4. Again, I'd need to test this more.

Yeah I feel Sentries could be a problem on this map too, especially on the higher levels. Though, Red did manage to take out any sentries blue placed without too much trouble.

Thanks :D It's really nice to see a comment like that! Once I'm done with my Dissertation and sleeping after I plan on cleaning up areas, blocking off places where I don't want players to drop (for example onto the top of spawn points if players drop down the outer rings) and begin creating custom props and getting some nice detail into the map.

Anyone have any ideas on what kind of theme would suit this map? I'd like to make most/all of the props custom. I've been thinking maybe some kind of floating island (kinda like the ones in avatar), or some kind of middle silo or big industrial place. Open to suggestions :)

Quixoticism said:
Wasn't able to play long before I had to jet, but the spawn felt much better for Blu this time. Also the health packs were greatly needed and were well spaced imo.

I think the top levels are pretty good, the cover around Red's lower cap point could use some variation. The thin barriers could use a little depth for more cover.
If you really want to test levels 2 and 4 you could make half maps with 1-3 and 3-5 and play test it to get a really good feel about them.

With the new changes though it does feel much more balanced, I think it could use some more testing changing up the teams every round so see which side, if any, has the advantage.

I also gave some more suggestions in the new survey.
Click to expand...

The only health packs I'm not too sure about are the medium ones around the middle point, but they did keep some fights going for a while, which was fun, me and Dek were running around the middle for ages trying to kill each other before everyone joined :D

Yeah, reds lower cap is really in its most basic form, the barriers are temporary of course until I can get some nice props made and imported :)

I'll get some more tests going once I've done some work if you guys are up for it :) Any admins able to put a scramble function on the server, it would be really helpful should the teams get unbalanced.

Dekstar said:
Yeah your next objective, after your dissertation, is to finish the visual aspect of it off Ren :p. Then it can go in hl2.net's rotation.
Click to expand...

Any ideas on what visual style will work well? :)

Feedback is awesome guys, really can't make a good map without it!
 
Ren.182 said:
Any ideas on what visual style will work well? :)

Feedback is awesome guys, really can't make a good map without it!
Click to expand...

rawr threadsurrection!

I think UFOs in some farmland or something might work well.
 
How would I incorporate the farmland into the vertical level? Unless its floating above the farmland?

Always had imagined it flying way above the ground, so you have clouds floating by and such. :) Possibly with other similar looking areas floating nearby out of reach.

For those of you interested, I got a First for this dissertation, as well as a first for my overall grade in my Computer Games Design course at university! :) http://www.halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=170409
 
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