Islamic Cultural Centre to be built near Ground Zero

Should tyhe city allow a mosque to be built near ground zero?

  • yes so long as it breaks no zoning laws they're free to do what they want. this is america

    Votes: 88 83.8%

  • no, this is america not islam-erica, god bless america and baby jesus

    Votes: 1 1.0%

  • no, it's an insult to those that died on 9/11

    Votes: 12 11.4%

  • I dont understand the issues enough to make an informed opinion/my name is unzero

    Votes: 4 3.8%
  • Total voters
    105
  • Poll closed .
unozero said:
oh NOW he chooses to be all sentimental....what a surprise:LOL:
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He said that in 2003. :|

VictimOfScience said:
Believe me, I am. I am also ashamed of our journalists. Just look at what is written from that article: "the journalist murdered by Islamist terrorists in Pakistan...." A BIG part of the problem is the media imho. WHY do they insist on saying that these militants were "Islamist" when in fact religion has nothing to do with them being terrorist assholes?? The VAST majority of Muslims do not identify with these jerks and yet somehow they get lumped in with them. Seems to me that the media is playing right into their hands by continuing to associate Islam with terror as this example demonstrates.
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While I agree the word "extremist" is inconveniently excluded from the article, you can't possibly expect journalists to ignore the primary motivation for these psychopathic fundamentalists, can you? Because that's rather asinine.

Also if I spent my time feeling embarrassed for the idiocies of my countrymen, my life would suck. Turns out there's tons of racists in the world, but it's fairly clear that no government action will be taken to counteract the building of this Mosque... so why feel ashamed?
 
Erestheux said:
While I agree the word "extremist" is inconveniently excluded from the article, you can't possibly expect journalists to ignore the primary motivation for these psychopathic fundamentalists, can you? Because that's rather asinine.
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I would love it if journalists did a better job at being indifferent but more and more they are proving their disability to be so. I totally disagree with the notion that the primary motivation for these "psychopathic fundamentalists" has anything to do with Islam. If anything, their motivation stems from anger at the Israel policy of the United States. I think it is terribly irresponsible of journalists to keep talking about "Islamic terrorists" as anything but just plain terrorists. Religion, even if it was the reason they gave for their attacks, does not enter into it because these people have their own twisted will to impose on everyone else and it has little to do with the religious teachings of any religion. It just clouds the real issues at hand. Instead of the US and the rest of the world understanding that it is a broken US foreign policy that is causing so much strife and unhappiness, all we get is that "these Islamic fundamentalists hate our freedom and our way of life and all of them want to kill us!" The more we talk about Muslims and Islam and terrorists in the same breath, the more damage we are doing because we are completely distracting everyone from the real issue of our own culpability in building the foundation for the horrors of global terrorism.

Erestheux said:
Also if I spent my time feeling embarrassed for the idiocies of my countrymen, my life would suck. Turns out there's tons of racists in the world, but it's fairly clear that no government action will be taken to counteract the building of this Mosque... so why feel ashamed?
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If you feel ashamed you at least know that what is right and what is wrong. You at least know you are not part of the problem. The next step is to do something about it. I think that all of this discussion is good, even if much of it is hateful, because at least there is an exchange of ideas. At least there is a discussion. Like it or not, people are realizing that there are viewpoints that differ from their own. Ideally people will begin to realize that we can all live together in happiness if we learn to listen a little more and accept that even though they may differ from our own, other viewpoints can be just as valid and heartfelt and positive.
 
After reading about those protesters going after that man that looked vaguely like an arab, I don't think I'd want to go anywhere near them. I have a pretty olive skin and I have short black hair & beard. In fact, numerous times some people have teased me for looking alot like a terrorist. They'd most likely be chasing me all over New York.
 
That guy didn't even look remotely like an Arab. ****ing rightwing dickholes think anyone that isn't white is dangerous.
 
Erestheux said:
He said that in 2003. :|



While I agree the word "extremist" is inconveniently excluded from the article, you can't possibly expect journalists to ignore the primary motivation for these psychopathic fundamentalists, can you? Because that's rather asinine.

Also if I spent my time feeling embarrassed for the idiocies of my countrymen, my life would suck. Turns out there's tons of racists in the world, but it's fairly clear that no government action will be taken to counteract the building of this Mosque... so why feel ashamed?
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I was referring to what Stern said.
 
the terrorist who's behind the mosque is currently overseas. let's see what evil he's up to:

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, leader of the planned Park51 Islamic community center in Lower Manhattan...

On the first stop of his good-will tour, sponsored by the State Department, Mr. Abdul Rauf talked expansively about religious law, the lessons of Islamic history and his mission to build bridges between the West and the Islamic world ...

After Mr. Abdul Rauf had spoken, and exchanged pleasantries with his hosts, one of the Jowder cousins raised his voice.

“I know you have the support of President Obama,” he said, almost shouting to be heard over the air-conditioners. “But why don’t we just change the place, to show that Islam is not there to threaten everybody, that Islam is a religion of peace?”

The questioner, of course, was referring to Mr. Abdul Rauf’s proposed Islamic community center and mosque in Lower Manhattan, two blocks from the former World Trade Center site.

“We have been at that location for a long time,” answered Mr. Abdul Rauf, who along with his partners bought the old Burlington Coat Factory building on Park Place in July 2009. “The opposition to us has come from outside the community. The fact that there has been this misunderstanding shows the need for the project.”
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right there folks, straight from the horses mouth. they mean to kill us all


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/nyregion/24imam.html?_r=1
 
Jeff Keith, youth pastor at First Baptist Church in Mayfield, said he hoped a solution could be found because he didn't want the Somalis to feel unwelcome.
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rofl i bet
 
Just received a robo-call from the Democratic candidate for congress in my district, he called to inform me that he was near the Twin Towers on 9/11 and doesn't believe the [strike]Mosque[/strike] community center should be built there. But don't worry he supports their right to practice their religion.

:rolleyes:
 
Alright now I'm f*cking pissed off, when even the Dems get on this stupid-ass bandwagon. What state/region are you in?
 
another thing I wonder is,how many mosques are in new york?
 
Eejit said:
"They" set up a poll here?

... all this time and I never realised Stern was part of the NWO!
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Does the informant show a title on his head? What does spy mean to you? Too bad they control this country with a net of moles.
 
<RJMC> said:
another thing I wonder is,how many mosques are in new york?
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Prolly a good question , so I looked it up. This is from a fox news article so I can't vouch for any sort of accuracy:

“New York City has more than 100 mosques, compared with 10 in 1970, and more than 800,000 of its 8.21 million residents are Muslims, said Philip Banks III,” chief of the NYPD Community Affairs Bureau.
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Apparently this one is way scarier though. Freedom of religion is apparently no longer part of the Bill of Rights. I mean I wonder if anyone knows that it's constitutionally impossible for the government to stop someone from making a religious establishment? Conservatives tend to want to use the Constitution only in times of benefit though. They'd gladly stomp out first amendment rights if it meant they'd win more votes at the end of the day... only to demand them back next time they want ridiculous and unreasonable rallies and protests.
 
Over one hundred mosques full of terrorists ready to kill you and your family.
 
Acepilotf14 said:
Over one hundred mosques full of terrorists ready to kill you and your family.
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Good god, the Christians need to kill the new expos before the rush happens D:

... assuming your typical ass-backward Christian thinks like a Starcraft player
 
StarBob said:
Apparently this one is way scarier though. Freedom of religion is apparently no longer part of the Bill of Rights. I mean I wonder if anyone knows that it's constitutionally impossible for the government to stop someone from making a religious establishment? Conservatives tend to want to use the Constitution only in times of benefit though. They'd gladly stomp out first amendment rights if it meant they'd win more votes at the end of the day... only to demand them back next time they want ridiculous and unreasonable rallies and protests.
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It would be so much easier to argue with these people if they actually came out and said they don't think freedom of religion applies here.

Instead it's some wishy-washy bullshit like "Don't get me wrong! It is perfectly legal for the mosque to be built there! I just think it's really indecent and the president should stop this from happening any way."

Like, ****ing really?
 
Yeah I'm at an utter loss of words for anybody who thinks this should be "stopped."
 
Oh Michael Moore, you're sooo edgy man.

I am opposed to the building of the "mosque" two blocks from Ground Zero.

I want it built on Ground Zero.

Why? Because I believe in an America that protects those who are the victims of hate and prejudice. I believe in an America that says you have the right to worship whatever God you have, wherever you want to worship. And I believe in an America that says to the world that we are a loving and generous people and if a bunch of murderers steal your religion from you and use it as their excuse to kill 3,000 souls, then I want to help you get your religion back. And I want to put it at the spot where it was stolen from you.
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He's such a contrived joke.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/michael-moore/if-that-mosque-isnt-built_b_713127.html
 
I dont see why not. they can lease the land to whatever group they want. I mean it's not like all 1 billion muslims flew those planes in the WTC so they only real thing stopping them is bigotry on the side of confused americans
 
CptStern said:
it's not like all 1 billion muslims flew those planes in the WTC
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No one is arguing that?
And it's not like the WTC was- "the spot where it (religion) was stolen from you (all 1 billion Muslims)" either. So what is your point? Their religion was "Stolen" long before the WTC attacks.

CptStern said:
I dont see why not. they can lease the land to whatever group they want.
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Obviously they can, but Moore's only reasoning for it being build RIGHT ON (not two blocks away) the former WTC site is that their religion was "stolen" from them at the WTC, therefore a mosque should be built on the former WTC. That's the most retarded and contrived load of shit I have ever heard.

What about the people's lives who were stolen? I think I'd be much more concerned about honoring the people that died, at the place they died, before I'd honor someones religion being symbolically "stolen".
 
Yeah, I think the Moore thing is a load that stinks of troll. The Muslim center's location is far enough away to not be "on hallowed ground" but the WTC site is.
 
Michael Moore is crazy sometimes. He just misses the point and uses the same exaggerated hyperbole crap conservatives use on a daily basis to drive controversy and get attention. Of course, the alternative is simply to state facts and be objective... which we all know doesn't get you very far in the world of media.

The fact of the matter is, this is a country founded on religious freedom amongst a slew of other freedoms. There's nothing anyone can do to stop it no matter how skewed their views are on what took palce on September 11, 2001 and the people responsible. It may not be the best choice of locations simply to avoid the controversy, but it certainly isn't in anyone's power to say they can't build there becase of religious implications.
 
ZT said:
No one is arguing that?
And it's not like the WTC was- "the spot where it (religion) was stolen from you (all 1 billion Muslims)" either. So what is your point? Their religion was "Stolen" long before the WTC attacks.



Obviously they can, but Moore's only reasoning for it being build RIGHT ON (not two blocks away) the former WTC site is that their religion was "stolen" from them at the WTC, therefore a mosque should be built on the former WTC. That's the most retarded and contrived load of shit I have ever heard.

What about the people's lives who were stolen? I think I'd be much more concerned about honoring the people that died, at the place they died, before I'd honor someones religion being symbolically "stolen".
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metaphors and symbolism. he's not seriously saying they should build it right on ground zero
 
CptStern said:
metaphors and symbolism. he's not seriously saying they should build it right on ground zero
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I somehow doubt that. Moore is one crazy sob who needs some serious reeducation.
 
They are FREE to do so-

That said

It's in extremely bad taste, and very insensitive to the way people there are feeling. On a personal level it's a very poor decision. Just like you're free to burn the bible, flags, or koran. It's disrespectful. But they can legally do so.

It's also a little fishy why they won't take some of the offers for the property- seems like they ARE just trying to make a point of having a mosque THERE and rile people up. they've been offered huge amounts over the property's value by people like Donald Trump, etc in order to just end the controversy.








What also makes me mad is that they won't allow the rebuilding of a CHURCH that was destroyed on 9/11, but they expedited the zoning decisions for the mosque- WHATS UP WITH THAT? They need to get the stuff done for the church then ASAP as well, not just be one sided.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/24/nyregion/24greek.html

The furor over plans to build an Islamic center two blocks from ground zero had already been joined by several politicians. On Monday, two politicians were joined in turn by officials of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America, who sought to use the controversy to focus attention on their long-stymied effort to rebuild a church destroyed on 9/11 at the foot of the World Trade Center.
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WHY ARE THEIR PLANS TO REBUILD BEING STALLED? DOUBLE STANDARD


medium
 
RakuraiTenjin said:
They are FREE to do so-

That said

It's in extremely bad taste, and very insensitive to the way people there are feeling. On a personal level it's a very poor decision. Just like you're free to burn the bible, flags, or koran. It's disrespectful. But they can legally do so.
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The people upset over it shouldn't be respected. The only reason it is considered disrespectful is because the idiots wrongly accuse Muslims for the 9/11 terrorists. You're saying they're being disrespectful to people who are prejudiced against them, because they're not accepting their prejudice. Good. If people take it as disrespect when others don't bend to their illegal, unnecessary and hideously misinformed demands, so ****ing be it.
 
Is "they are free to build it, but I don't think they should" the new "I'm not racist but I really hate black people"?
 
Krynn72 said:
The people upset over it shouldn't be respected. The only reason it is considered disrespectful is because the idiots wrongly accuse Muslims for the 9/11 terrorists. You're saying they're being disrespectful to people who are prejudiced against them, because they're not accepting their prejudice. Good. If people take it as disrespect when others don't bend to their illegal, unnecessary and hideously misinformed demands, so ****ing be it.
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So should the Jews and/or Christians be able to build on the Temple Mount right next to the Al Aqsa Mosque? It's along the exact same lines. I think they should be allowed to in the name of religious freedom- but that doesn't mean I think it's a wise choice that it be done in reality. THAT'S what I'm saying.

PvtRyan said:
Is "they are free to build it, but I don't think they should" the new "I'm not racist but I really hate black people"?
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No. Say, just for the sake of my example, that Saudi Arabia was free religious country.

I wouldn't think it'd be a good idea or support building a Church right next to Mecca- but I would defend their right to do so. It's not because I think Christians are terrible or anything- it's because I recognize the sensitivity of that population to that plot of land. As Krynn said we should NOT respect the Saudi's and those who deny others access to Mecca's intolerance.. but I dont think it is wise to build there in the real world of human emotions and belief.
 
I don't think they should build it because it seems like this mosque is setting any agenda for social equality for Muslims ABOUT A MILLION TIMES BACK

BUT YEAH GREAT JOKE LOL I ALSO HATE BLACK PEOPLE
 
Ground Zero is not a religiously sensitive area. Culturally, maybe.
 
Yeah, I mean because it was an attack by an organized and large group of religious extremists who did it in the name of their religion and were motivated by their radical religious cause.

clearly I am racist against black people again for suggesting that this site may be sensitive to religion
 
kineaesth said:
Ground Zero is not a religiously sensitive area. Culturally, maybe.
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Not to me, but it is to a lot of people and I recognize that. It's considered hallowed ground. It's sensitive ground both culturally AND religiously.

Erestheux said:
Yeah, I mean because it was an attack by an organized and large group of religious extremists who did it in the name of their religion and were motivated by their radical religious cause.

clearly I am racist against black people again for suggesting that this site may be sensitive to religion
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This shit.
 
Erestheux said:
Yeah, I mean because it was an attack by an organized and large group of religious extremists who did it in the name of their religion and were motivated by their radical religious cause.
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Sure, I was more addressing

RakuraiTenjin said:
I wouldn't think it'd be a good idea or support building a Church right next to Mecca- but I would defend their right to do so. It's not because I think Christians are terrible or anything- it's because I recognize the sensitivity of that population to that plot of land.
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There is religion at play, certainly, but comparing Ground Zero to a place of such religious significance as Mecca is nonsensical.
 
kineaesth said:
There is religion at play, certainly, but comparing Ground Zero to a place of such religious significance as Mecca is nonsensical.
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I think Mecca is nonsensical. But that doesn't mean that segment of global society feels the same way. Because of that fact, it is unwise to build another religion's buildings by it.

If you think Ground Zero being hallowed ground is nonsensical- you'll have to take that up with huge portions of American and Christian society, not me. I just recognize the facts of what people believe and that it is very unwise to inflame situations in that way.

Like I said, they're free to do so. But they shouldn't be surprised when the shit hits the fan though and they should expect it to happen eventually.


Just like someone who burns a Koran in the eye of the mass media shouldn't be surprised that they receive death threats. They're free to do so, but it's a stupid choice, just like this is.
 
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