Let's keep it simple here.

[JohnnyL]

I think alot of these story theories, while interesting, are way too complex. Now I know that alot of you might flame me for this, as the agreement on the gáme's theme (which I am in-line with) is that Nothing is as it Seems. True. But simplicity and mystery are not mutually exclusive. I came away from both gámes thinking that a large part of the theme was that The Answers are Right in Front of You.

I suggest that you characters read the poem, "The Blind Men and the Elephant." It might help you to understand what I am saying.

 

[Megalomaniac]

Sometimes the most simple is the most unexpected and most complex answer

 

[Is This Tea]

I suggest that you characters read the poem, "The Blind Men and the Elephant." It might help you to understand what I am saying.

Ouch… ;(
A Chinese poem eh? Perhaps we are like the blind men… or maybe you are the fool who looks at the finger that points at the sky…. Let’s wait till hl3!

 

[JohnnyL]

Ouch… ;(
A Chinese poem eh? Perhaps we are like the blind men… or maybe you are the fool who looks at the finger that points at the sky…. Let’s wait till hl3!

Actually, it's English.

It was six men of Indostan
To learning much inclined,
Who went to see the Elephant~(Though all of them were blind),
That each by observation~Might satisfy his mind.

The First approached the Elephant,
And happening to fall
Against his broad and sturdy side, ~ At once began to bawl:
"God bless me! but the Elephant ~ Is very like a wall!"

The Second, feeling of the tusk,
Cried, "Ho! what have we here?
So very round and smooth and sharp? ~ To me 'tis mighty clear
This wonder of an Elephant ~ Is very like a spear!"

The Third approached the animal,
And happening to take
The squirming trunk within his hands, ~ Thus boldly up and spake:
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant ~ Is very like a snake!"

The Fourth reached out an eager hand,
And felt about the knee.
"What most this wondrous beast is like ~ Is mighty plain," quoth her;
"'Tis clear enough the Elephant ~ Is very like a tree!"

The Fifth who chanced to touch the ear,
Said: "E'en the blindest man
Can tell what this resembles most; ~ Deny the fact who can,
This marvel of an Elephant ~ Is very like a fan!"

The Sixth no sooner had begun
About the beast to grope,
Than, seizing on the swinging tail ~ That fell within his scope,
"I see," quoth he, "the Elephant ~ Is very like a rope!

And so these men of Indostan
Disputed loud and long,
Each in his own opinion ~ Exceeding stiff and strong,
Though each was partly in the right ~ And all were in the wrong!


The way it applies to HL, is that A. Nothing is exactly as it seems, and B. the answers are right in front of you, but you can't understand them unless you see the whole picture, which, hopefully, HL3 will reveal to us.

 

[The_Merlin]

I have to agree with Johnny, all these theories are nice to read and really cool, but its hard to imagine that all this thought went into this game and that we will never know the truth until the last game.

 

[duckmoose]

It's hard to imagine that much thought went into the game?

It's hard to imagine that we will never know the full truth until the last game?

Sheesh, it may be a forum but I get tired of folks who spew poor word choice like a punctured sewage pipe (sorry to pick on you specifically Merlin but it gets bothersome).


EDIT: I just realized I'll probably be flamed for my ironic sense of humor so let me clarify: the improper reference in the third section is INTENTIONAL.

 

[JohnnyL]

I have to agree with Johnny, all these theories are nice to read and really cool, but its hard to imagine that all this thought went into this game and that we will never know the truth until the last game.

Alot of thought went into the game, but what you characters don't seem to get is that because alot of thought went into it, it doesn't necessarily need to be complex.

 

[The_Merlin]

Why do I bother

 

[Is This Tea]

Why do I bother

I don’t know… you must be far superior to all of us… thank you for trying to improve us unworthy ones.

In any case… I think it’s great that everybody has their own ideas and opinions about the plot no matter how convoluted some are. Let’s just wait until we have more facts (In other words an expansion or hl3.) before trying to write the definitive how to interpret half life guide.

Actually, it's English.

Right as rain… I wonder how I got in my head otherwise….hmm.

 

[Is This Tea]

Alot of thought went into the game, but what you characters don't seem to get is that because alot of thought went into it, it doesn't necessarily need to be complex.

I respect that argument against complexity. I have been hostile toward others because they all assumed somehow that valve didn’t put a lot of thought into hl2.

I’m curious though were (and how) you draw the line on “too complex” Could you give some examples of “too complex” and “just right” with a summery of your methodology for arriving at those judgments to facilitate our understanding of you’re position?

Is this too complex?
http://fragfiles.org/~hlstory//timeline.htm

Cheers,

 

[JohnnyL]

That is exactly what I'm talking about. Whoever wrote that obviously did not pay attention to the game. In the game, Dr. Breen explicitly states that "The Combine" is a derogatory name for the Universal Union. These people are just speculating out their asses and have no real idea what is going on.

Here is what we do know (I haven't played the original in a while, so there may be holes):

Spoiler

Pre-1999: Scientists @ Black Mesa, while researching teleportation, discover a "border world."

1999: During an anti-mass spectrometry test of an anomoulous material recovered from this border world (hereon: Xen), a "resonance cascade" occurs, and creatures from the border world are integrated into this one, centering on Black Mesa. The research associate (hereon: Freeman) in the test chamber makes his way to the surface, at first, and then to the lambda teleportation labs. He encounters "soldiers," allegedly U.S. Marines, who have been sent, ostensibly, to cover up the incident. Freeman makes it to the lambda labs and teleports to Xen, to kill the "mastermind" of the "invasion." He succeds in killing the Nihilanth, and is contacted by an unknown person (hereon: G-man) and is offered a position in his employment.

c. 2014: Freeman is deposited in City 17, in what is probably the former Ukraine, by G-man, (who alludes to the fact that Freeman has been rather busy in the intervening years) and procedes to contact one Dr. Kleiner, a leader in a resitance movement against the Universal Union. (hereon: Combine) Some creatures originally described at Black Mesa are now common sights on earth, and Earth is apparently under the control of the Combine, an opressive police government, which, it is alluded to, is masterminded by aliens, who are, it is infered, from Xen. It is alluded to that the Black Mesa incident is the cause of this whole thing. Freeman makes contact with Vance, and eventually takes part in a rebellion against the combine government in City 17, and kills (it is assumed) Dr. Breen, former administrator of the Black Mesa facility, and the representative of humanity to the rest of the Universal Union.

This is what we know. Beyond that, anything is speculation. I have a feeling that, if and when the answers are revealed, we will all slap our foreheads and lament our blindness.

 

[Darkside55]

Reading Laidlaw's "The 37th Mandala" has convinced me that Ockham's Razor will not work with Half-Life. The simplest solution probably will not work here. (I realize I'm greatly oversimplifying the Razor)

What you highlighted in the spoiler tags there is indeed a concise view of the plot thus far, but it's the simplified version. There are things you're missing out on and things you're wrong about (most glaringly the part about the Combine being from Xen, which they are not--it is never even inferred as such, since it has been said repeatedly throughout the game that the Combine are from their own universe). However if nothing is as it seems then there are certainly going to be parts of that that are wrong or perhaps have some greater meaning to them.

I can't really comment further because you haven't gone into any detail about which theories you find most complex on this forum. You've simply stated that "most" of them are complex, you've failed to give any examples. I'll wholeheartedly agree that many theories on this board can be outlandish, oft-repeated, and bordering insanity (see my signature), but that doesn't mean they might not have some small merit to them. Whenever someone comes up with a theory people tend to play off of it and think up new things. If this offends you in some way by making things way too complex, well, sorry. Don't read rumors and speculation then. Things get complex, and we've got nothing better to do while waiting for HL3 than to speculate.

If you want to discuss this further then talk about some of the theories you have issues with. We'll discuss.

 

[Is This Tea]

Reading Laidlaw's "The 37th Mandala" has convinced me that Ockham's Razor will not work with Half-Life. The simplest solution probably will not work here.

Exactly. I think Marc is honestly the kind of guy who would come up with a video game idea that really is this cool and Gabe is the kind of guy who is open minded enough to say “yeah lets do it.”

Speaking of Gabe’s open mindedness…
In Raising the Bar Ken Birdwell reminisces about Gabe listening very seriously to a concept artist who was proposing that “Homosexuality” is what really scares the target audience (14-year old boys) not monsters with fangs…
Gabe says, “Excellent, That’s exactly what I was looking for.”

Some creatures originally described at Black Mesa are now common sights on earth, and Earth is apparently under the control of the Combine, an opressive police government, which, it is alluded to, is masterminded by aliens, who are, it is infered, from Xen.

I didn’t get any inferences to the combine being from xen...

 

[JohnnyL]

I didn’t get any inferences to the combine being from xen...

I personally don't see how it could be any other way.

 

[ríomhaire]

The Combine aren't from Xen they took over Xen by using Nihia-thing to enslave the Vorts.

Xen is a border world. It's the border between Earth and some Combine world

 

[Is This Tea]

I personally don't see how it could be any other way.

Well I guess we won’t have any luck explaining our positions to each other then. Bummer.

The Combine aren't from Xen they took over Xen by using Nihia-thing to enslave the Vorts.

Could very well be… but who knows for sure.

Xen is a border world. It's the border between Earth and some Combine world

Or possibly multiple other worlds.

 

[Is This Tea]

I’m going to play devil’s advocate here.

I think one of JohnnyL ‘s points here (and please correct me if you feel I’m putting words in your mouth Johnny) is that if we were all speculating about half life 1 we would be very very surprised to find this “Combine” show up in the sequel. It seem like the xen wildlife isn’t so important anymore. Perhaps the same will come of the combine. It’s as if the more we humans interact with the other dimensions… the more and more sh*t we are going to keep encountering. Perhaps, if there are infinite dimensions, we could never know what might sail in next from the horizon.

Still. We’re having fun speculating. So unless the fun police make a crackdown here we should be good to go.

From the flipside of the argument. Marc has said that every detail in this game has full significance.

“God is in the Details.” – Mies van der Rohe

Also,
http://fragfiles.org/~hlstory//timeline.htm
The author of this page does refer to them as the universal union. So I don’t think he has missed any details… he is just reading into them in his own way… like all of us do… and some of us enjoy sharing our ideas with others. We won’t be embarrassed or something if we’re wrong.

 

[Is This Tea]

3 in a row… I should really meditate longer on if I have said all I wanted.
In any case… I just wanted to point this out…

That is exactly what I'm talking about. Whoever wrote that obviously did not pay attention to the game.

"Good job! Marc Laidlaw pointed this out to me as being pretty darn accurate for the most part."
- Gary McTaggart (Valve)
That’s a quote in reference to the hl2 plot web page you were lambasting.
http://fragfiles.org/~hlstory//timeline.htm