MMOut of Control!

[chu]

I am just wondering what everyone else thinks about this nausiating onslaught of MMO games. I received my PC Gamer and once again the cover story deals with another MMO game and plus info on 67 others. Who here plays MMOs? I for one don't want to pay $50 for a game and then a monthly fee on top of that.

Am I wrong to assume that this is the lazy way to make a game. How much development goes behind an MMO, don't the players themselves make up the game and where it goes?

I might be saying this because I am stuck with dial up and don't have the luxury to play online but I am mostly saying this because the PC Game Industry needs more Single Player franchises. I think we are getting too wrapped up in online play and because of this good stories aren't being told.

Once again this might just be flame bait because I am stuck with dial up. :afro:

Please, discuss.

 

[WhiteZero]

It's a cash-cow. What do you expect?
Just like back with all the WWII games.

And just as much time, if not more, goes into developing an MMO.
Not to mention the constant development of it. MMOs patch more than any other genre.

 

[Ren.182]

Everyone seems to love them, especially East-Asia. They're addictive and people have even died playing them.

If they make money they will make more of them. The way things are.

I myself don't play them, i don't want to get addicted and ruin my life and my wallet. There are some fre MMO's like Guild Wars.

 

[Steven]

Paying a monthly fee for a game is stupid and I'll never do it.

 

[destrukt]

Paying a monthly fee for a game is stupid and I'll never do it.

do you have a phone, car, house, a form of pay tv, credit card, loan, memberships and so on ?

 

[Cormeh]

Am I wrong to assume that this is the lazy way to make a game. How much development goes behind an MMO, don't the players themselves make up the game and where it goes?

As I understand it, the companies responsible for the game have technicians on night and day moderating online servers, working out bugs, patches etc.

I don't play MMO so correct me of I'm wrong.

MMORPG seems to be the most popular way of playing online these days. I don't have a problem with it - RPG'ers can move away from games like Jedi Academy!

 

[jondy]

do you have a phone, car, house, a form of pay tv, credit card, loan, memberships and so on ?

And I hope you don't ever upgrade your computer, Steven

 

[Lucid]

MMORPG seems to be the most popular way of playing online these days. I don't have a problem with it - RPG'ers can move away from games like Jedi Academy!

D:
I RP on JKA >.>'

But I usually turn servers into fragfests in rather short amounts of time.

And yeah, the amount of MMORPGs in the works / out already, is sickening...
There must be like 900 similar Korean MMORPGs already in public beta.

 

[Septih]

It's all about what you get out of it...

If you really enjoy the game and there is lots to do, you may find that you're paying $15(for example) each month for a game that keeps you occupied for the same amount of time that 3 $50 games would.

On the other hand if you only play it for 3 hours a week or so then it's not really worth it.

 

[Sulkdodds]

The reason MMOs are so popular is for exactly the same reason that WW2 games became popular:

1. Several brilliant examples of the genre appear within quite a short space of time until one BIG one comes along.
3. The subject matter or concept resonates with the popular consciousness.
2. Variations and clones are swiftly made, diversifying into new experiences and some, the crap ones, making the big boys seem better by their shittiness.

I would argue that there have actually been two waves on MMOs. Wave One was UO, the first Everquest and maybe Dark Age of Camelot - but none of them were that appealing to the casual gamer. The second wave was at the beginning of this year, with City of Heroes, World of Warcraft and Eve Online (Guild Wars being a latecomer) becoming the defining titles of the MMO. World of Warcraft and City of Heroes espeially are very attractive to the less hardcore gamer, because you're able to play them casually and the subject matter is interesting and immediately accessable (superheroes and almost-parody quirky fantasy). With WW2 games it was Wolf, MoH, etc. There are a hell of a lot of shitty MMOs and as well there are loads planned that will probably be awful.

With the internet becoming universal amongst generally all people, truly becoming a part of popular culture (as is emerging many-to-many media), MMOs really seize the public consciousness I think.

Also, they are fun as hell.

 

[StardogChampion]

The funny thing is that I think a lot of these MMORPGs would work fine OFFLINE. Look at guildwars, if you use NPCs for all the quests it might aswell be an offline game.

I'd buy Eve Offline if it ever came out. Just flying around space doing some quests.

I'd also pay for WoW if it was offline, letting you walk around the huge world doing quests for NPC's.

But I wouldn't subscribe monthly to any of them just yet.

The annoying thing is that games that let you upgrade character stats/levels are often only MMORPG's. The last RPG I played that let me do that was KOTOR or something.

Lame.

 

[CptStern]

to those that say they refuse to pay to play ..well you do that already. Take any traditional game. It costs on average $50 for about 10-12 hours worth of gameplay content. With MMO games you're paying $50 for the game + $15/month but for those $50 you get far more than 10 hours ..to reach the end game could take 3, 4 times that in terms of gameplay time. You dont have to pay $15 a month; I bought WoW and whenever I feel like playing I just buy a 2 month card for $30 which gives me far more than 10 hours worth of gameplay

sooner or later all games will revolve around this model as ..specifically pc games. Valve has already introduced pay to play and I predict they'll move to a MMO type pay per month service

sp games that last 20 hours + is dead. With development of games soaring companies have to look at ways of securing guarenteed returns for their investment. It makes no sense to spend 5 years on developing a games in the hopes that in 4 short weeks from it's launch window they'll recoup their costs. A better business model is to stagger development over a longer period of time therefore minimizing risk

 

[Baal]

That is true in some cases stardog, such as leveling 1-60 in WoW, but 60 on, playing by yourself would be ridiculous.

 

[Baal]

to those that say they refuse to pay to play ..well you do that already. Take any traditional game. It costs on average $50 for about 10-12 hours worth of gameplay content. With MMO games you're paying $50 for the game + $15/month but for those $50 you get far more than 10 hours ..to reach the end game could take 3, 4 times that in terms of gameplay time. You dont have to pay $15 a month; I bought WoW and whenever I feel like playing I just buy a 2 month card for $30 which gives me far more than 10 hours worth of gameplay

sooner or later all games will revolve around this model as ..specifically pc games. Valve has already introduced pay to play and I predict they'll move to a MMO type pay per month service

sp games that last 20 hours + is dead. With development of games soaring companies have to look at ways of securing guarenteed returns for their investment. It makes no sense to spend 5 years on developing a games in the hopes that in 4 short weeks from it's launch window they'll recoup their costs. A better business model is to stagger development over a longer period of time therefore minimizing risk

MY GOD SOMEONE IS USING LOGIC. THIS CANNOT BE.

Seriously though, it's the true. I bought World of Warcraft 14 months ago. I paid $50 for it, and $15 a month each month for it.

I have not played another game since...it has been the only game I've paid for since.

Considering the average game costs upwards of $80 for a console game (new release) and $50 for a PC game (or more, but that's the general price where I live, Canadian dollars).

So lets say I still played my PS2, and bought one game, for $60, that is four months worth of play time!! You probably see my point now.

 

[StardogChampion]

I would maybe do the 1/2 month card thing, but I doubt every MMORPG has that available, or does it?

 

[CptStern]

I think the majority do

 

[Sulkdodds]

Have you played the WoW trial Stardog?

 

[WhiteZero]

The annoying thing is that games that let you upgrade character stats/levels are often only MMORPG's. The last RPG I played that let me do that was KOTOR or something.

And every other RPG out there?
*cough*Elder Scrolls Series*cough*

 

[AiM]

Personally I'd prefer if the MMO business model involved a free distribution method that involved only paying monthly fee. As it is now, you're paying $50 for a game that can't be played unless you're spending additional $15 per month, that's very risky for the average buyer.

 

[Septih]

MY GOD SOMEONE IS USING LOGIC. THIS CANNOT BE.

I used logic first ;(

 

[StardogChampion]

Have you played the WoW trial Stardog?

I played the beta up to around level 21.

And every other RPG out there?
*cough*Elder Scrolls Series*cough*

Morrowind's ancient now though. MMORPG's get released almost every other month at the moment. The latest few being Dungeons & Dragons and RF Online.

 

[WhiteZero]

Personally I'd prefer if the MMO business model involved a free distribution method that involved only paying monthly fee. As it is now, you're paying $50 for a game that can't be played unless you're spending additional $15 per month, that's very risky for the average buyer.

You always get the first month free...

Morrowind's ancient now though. MMORPG's get released almost every other month at the moment. The latest few being Dungeons & Dragons and RF Online.

Morrowind, graphically, looks better than the most popular current MMO (WoW). And Obliv is comming out very soon...
And D&D and RF online seemed really shallow to me.

 

[Ren.182]

I started playing guild wars today... TOO addictvie >_< 1:30 PM till 8:30 PM non-stop... I'm gonna play some more in a bit >_<

 

[AiM]

You always get the first month free...

So you pay $50 to play one month total...sounds like a steal.

 

[WhiteZero]

So you pay $50 to play one month total...sounds like a steal.

Ummm... no.
You pay $50 for the entire initial development of the game (just like you paying for HL2 or Command and Conquer to be developed), which dose take just as long as a normal game, plus your first month. You then pay $10 - $15 per month for the continued content development and server/bandwidth costs.

It's pretty simple.
I dont see why so many people don't understand this concept and bark about monthly fees.

 

[smwScott]

The only way I could justify paying a monthly fee is if there was no initial cost, or at least it was very cheap (between $5-$10). My reasoning for this is that when you buy an MMO, you buy nothing. You buy a box with a manual and some shiny circular objects. You're essentially buying the right to subscribe to a service. You put a fairly significant investment (relative to other entertainment, $50 is a good chunk of change) and you get nothing out of the box.

Every once in awhile I pop the original Metal Gear Solid into my PS2 and play it - I own that game. I watch movies I've owned for years. If I bought WoW, in addition to being worthless now without paying an additional monthly fee ... in 5+ year the game itself won't even exist. It isn't tangible, and therefore I can't justify paying for it.

 

[Spoonoop]

I think MMO's are pretty cool and all, but I get my enjoyment out of singleplayer games. Everything these days is about multiplayer. But I buy games based on the singleplayer experience. I have played MMO's in the past, and had alot of fun, but after a while they get old, and playing it feels like a chore.

 

[WhiteZero]

The only way I could justify paying a monthly fee is if there was no initial cost, or at least it was very cheap (between $5-$10). My reasoning for this is that when you buy an MMO, you buy nothing. You buy a box with a manual and some shiny circular objects. You're essentially buying the right to subscribe to a service. You put a fairly significant investment (relative to other entertainment, $50 is a good chunk of change) and you get nothing out of the box.

Every once in awhile I pop the original Metal Gear Solid into my PS2 and play it - I own that game. I watch movies I've owned for years. If I bought WoW, in addition to being worthless now without paying an additional monthly fee ... in 5+ year the game itself won't even exist. It isn't tangible, and therefore I can't justify paying for it.

Ok, thats like saying the PS2 should cost $50 because it's usless without games.
-.-

No, it cost money to develope that system (analogy: the MMO) and now you pay more money for the games (analogy: future content and bandwidth costs).

 

[smwScott]

Ok, thats like saying the PS2 should cost $50 because it's usless without games.
-.-

No, it cost money to develope that system (analogy: the MMO) and now you pay more money for the games (analogy: future content and bandwidth costs).

No ... no it's not. Bad analogy. I wasn't saying I shouldn't have to pay for a graphics card or a processor was I? And even though it isn't necessary that I say this, as your analogy is already so far off ... but the PS2 also functions as a DVD/CD Player.

Re-read what I said. In 10 years, assuming it still works, my PS2 will still have a use. It's valuable, it exists, it does something. Same with all non MMO games. They are tangible. However, what will you do with your $50 MMO games in 10 years? For all intents and purposes they eventually cease to exist, but the main point is that when you buy it, all you're really purchasing is the rights to subscribe to their service.

If people want to buy it and spend their money on it, then that's great. And if they enjoy it, then it's worth it for them. However, I personally can't justify purchasing a game with that business model.

 

[Gray Fox]

MMO may keep you buisy for a longer time, but it's really not by content.
they just make you grind like hell, and the quest are very very monotone. No MMO has as many and as varied quests, as KOTOR, never winter nights, ff........
Wow has many nice areas to explore and nice player interactivity, but the quests really amount to just getting from place to place or killing so many creatures to collect fur or leather or watherever. There are no intersting puzzles to solve, no deep or epic story. No variable conversations.

I can understand you all liking MMO's, but the agrument that they keep you longer buisy and you therefore get much more for your money is bs.
Any sp rpg could keep you as buisy as any mmo if they made the lvling as slow
as mmorpg have.

And mmo's wouldn't be cashcows if all that 10,- or 15,- was spent on just the upkeep and updates. If GW can do it for free, then most mmo's wouldn't need anymore then 5 bucks. You are still getting screwed, if you really like mmo's. Wise up a little, hold out for a little and wait for the price to come down.

 

[DeusExMachina]

I honestly don't see the entertainment value in MMOs. I played Dark Age for 3 hours...and it was boring as hell. Who the hell even wants to bother leveling up to do Realm v. Realm because that's the only thing worth doing in Dark Age of Camelot. WoW? PvP. And PvP becomes boring instantly.

But then again I'm biased. SINGLE PLAYA FO LIFE.

 

[phantomdesign]

I tried WoW and got hooked - glad I eventually got pissed at the game and gathered enough self control to quit.

There are some fre MMO's like Guild Wars.

Guild wars sounds really tempting & seems like you can play it more casually than WoW . . . but I vowed to never touch a MMO again until I get a good full-time job.

 

[Steven]

do you have a phone, car, house, a form of pay tv, credit card, loan, memberships and so on ?

I just can't see myself paying for a game each month.

 

[pvtbones]

Guild wars isn't really free, they get your money through expansions (similar to the Sims series and it's many many expansions) it's been said a couple of times in various articles.


or atleast thats what I remember reading.

 

[Somefool]

Guild wars isn't really free, they get your money through expansions (similar to the Sims series and it's many many expansions) it's been said a couple of times in various articles.


or atleast thats what I remember reading.

The thing is that you don't have to buy it and you get to enjoy what you paid for, unlike MMO games where they take your things away once you stop paying.

 

[bam23]

Guild Wars is an awesome game. It's not really an MMO, it's more of a Diablo2 style hack and slash. Highly recommended.

 

[VirusType2]

At first I thought it was the coolest thing ever. I addictively played them every waking moment.


Then, one day, I realized that I never wanted to group with other players, Im not a social person, most everyone annoys me. hell i even annoy myself quite offten (i suffer from Bi-Polar disorder)

I just wanted to fight alone, and that is not always possible if you want to see all of what the game offers.

So the reason I loved them so much was also the reason I hated them so much. The people.


I realized that communicating with other players was often agrivating and caused my blood pressure to raise so high that I felt I would murder someone. (I have a violent, hair-trigger temper like Tony Sapprano) I was tired of relying on other people so that I could play. The people that you desperately need to heal you were the least played class, so healers were scarce.

I could stand there announcing that Im a highly skilled player with the top gear and im looking for a group to take on the tough parts of the game with no success so for hours. So imagine if you aren't a very skilled player and/or don't have very good equipement (weapons/armor) Very frustrating. You can't just play the game when you want, you to rely on 4 other people of complimenting classes to be ready to play the same part of the game you are.


Also, the graphics on MMORPG's are severely toned down to compensate for the fact that there may be hundreds of players on-screen at any given time, using tons of memory and processing power. PLaying a single player game offline, and you have all that extra power and memory to make the game that much better.

Then, on top of that, you have to pay a large monthly fee the equivalent of buying a used game every month.

Even if they made it so that both the healer and tank (Warrior)classes the top 2 played classes, (it can be very frustrating to form a team with 5 rogues) I just don't think I'll ever play them again

I quit.

Backround:
my first MMORPG was Phantasy Star Online for SEGA Dreamcast and I probably logged more hours on that game than anyone in the world. Then it was Everquest and I played that for a long time. Most recently I played World of Warcraft and was addicted to that. I still have a Warcraft account with 3 level 60s and a bunch of other mid-level characters but my account is inactive right now.

 

[Ren.182]

Yeah, just got off guild wars... racked up another 6 or 7 hours >_<...
But like it's ben said, its more like a single player RPG with some online features at the same time. Though i guess the PvP side of it is more like a MMO. not sure

This post made no sense.

 

[Zephos]

Guild wars sounds really tempting & seems like you can play it more casually than WoW . . . but I vowed to never touch a MMO again until I get a good full-time job.

WoW attempted to be the "pick up and play" type MMORPG, so you could get in...play 15 minutes and go. Unfortunately, they shat over that concept. Queues to get into the game, quests that can take upto 8 hours (am I kidding? **** no) and more server load problems also screw it up.

Guild wars is a lot more casual...at the beginning. Then you get into PvP where it slaps you in the face, it becomes so damn strategic (but strangely still accessable). And yes, you can pick it up and play (I played for 5 minutes I think and got a quest done, I felt pretty proud afterwards ).

 

[ríomhaire]

Paying a monthly fee for a game is stupid and I'll never do it.

Buy Guild Wars