Off the wagon...

You know, I was going to add something constructive, but this thread has descended into a pit of despair and butthurt.

I'm out.
 
Vegeta897 said:
JOSSI
READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY
WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT RIGHT NOW DID NOT OCCUR IN THIS THREAD
Click to expand...
Seemed pretty much like a pile on to me. Regardless, it's not like this hasn't been a problem. I'd say right now the average user here is one of the reasons we don't get very many new people signing up. There's other issues at work as well of course, but it's a very visible one.

Also posting in huge letters is not very helpful.
 
Vegeta897 said:
Please read closer. This thread had nothing to do with what you're talking about. If you want to discuss that matter, we can do that somewhere else, or you can talk to me in Steam about it.
Click to expand...

Please read closer. Rorschach indicated that this thread is the straw that broke the camel's back and it was the forum posting in general that was the issue.
 
JossiRossi said:
Seemed pretty much like a pile on to me.
Click to expand...
Did you even read what Badhat said? Are you calling him a liar? Are you saying you can read his intentions better than one of his friends, or he himself?

JossiRossi said:
Regardless, it's not like this hasn't been a problem.

I'd say right now the average user here is one of the reasons we don't get very many new people signing up. There's other issues at work as well of course, but it's a very visible one.
Click to expand...
And like I said, we can discuss that somewhere else. It does not apply and does not belong in this thread. Neither does any of this, obviously, but the point is you're imagining things.

JossiRossi said:
Also posting in huge letters is not very helpful.
Click to expand...
you: veterans shouldn't be acting this way to new members
me: but that's not what happened here
you: do i really need to explain why they shouldn't be acting that way?
me: nobody was acting that way in this thread.
you: you're an idiot if you think veterans should be acting that way.

I had to do something to break this chain of you not comprehending anything.

Eejit said:
Please read closer. Rorschach explained that this thread is the straw that broke the camel's back and it was the forum posting in general that was the issue.
Click to expand...
But the "straw" had nothing to do with everything he was complaining about. Rorschach CLEARLY misinterpreted Badhat's post, and therefore his entire rant was triggered for no reason. Just because Badhat's post triggered this upset, doesn't mean what he is fed up with is relevant.
 
So you think this wasn't a pile on? Fine. Doesn't change the fact that I still do.

Bigger issue, there are many members of this forum who act in a way that should be discouraged. In extreme cases even punished. I know posters have pretty much not had to deal with any kinds of consequences or moderation in the past, and maybe that will upset some people if that stops, but unless things change, there will be punitive measures dolled out.
 
The funny thing is, I totally get where you're coming from now, because it's been made into such a big ****ing deal that I just kind of feel bad for Rorschach, regardless of whether he misinterpreted me. I feel worse for sinko though, since his thread was about something sincere and now it's just a big shitpost for all of valvetime's stupid baggage.
 
Vegeta897 said:
you: veterans shouldn't be acting this way to new members
me: but that's not what happened here
you: do i really need to explain why they shouldn't be acting that way?
me: nobody was acting that way in this thread.
you: you're an idiot if you think veterans should be acting that way.

But the "straw" had nothing to do with everything he was complaining about. Rorschach CLEARLY misinterpreted Badhat's post, and therefore his entire rant was triggered for no reason. Just because Badhat's post triggered this upset, doesn't mean what he is fed up with is relevant.
Click to expand...

Ross was speaking about behaviour in general (which Roschach had complained about in a post in this thread) and you responded by claiming this this specific thread wasn't a problem. Do you understand how your response to Ross was a non-sequitur?
 
Bad^Hat said:
The funny thing is, I totally get where you're coming from now, because it's been made into such a big ****ing deal that I just kind of feel bad for Rorschach, regardless of whether he misinterpreted me. I feel worse for sinko though, since his thread was about something sincere and now it's just a big shitpost for all of valvetime's stupid baggage.
Click to expand...
I was going to split the thread so that Sinko's thread didn't have this stuff going on in it, but it veered off topic so fast that there's only 4-5 posts relating to his topic anyway. I can do that but it's Sinko's call. Otherwise it'd be easier to just change the tread title.
 
Vegeta897 said:
But the "straw" had nothing to do with everything he was complaining about. Rorschach CLEARLY misinterpreted Badhat's post, and therefore his entire rant was triggered for no reason. Just because Badhat's post triggered this upset, doesn't mean what he is fed up with is relevant.
Click to expand...

Bad^Hat said:
Literally just taking a light-hearted jab at something that sounds a little dim out of context
Click to expand...

You are CLEARLY jumping to conclusions.

"Petty sarcastic bullshit" is what I believe I said.... This CLEARLY describes Bad^Hat's comment.
 
How far'd you get before you turned around?
 
Light-hearted jab = petty sarcastic bullshit?

This "petty sarcastic bullshit" exists in every thread, and I'm not talking about the kind that Jossi is saying is a problem (which does exist). People make jabs at each other here all the time and 99% of the time everyone knows it's playful (I can start feeding you links of this if you wish). It's unfortunate that you chose to take it so poorly. The reason it is clear that you misinterpreted him is because you started defending your own post to him, when in fact Badhat was not challenging the content of your post, only making a silly remark on a single sentence out of context.

It's akin to interpreting someone correcting your grammar as them disagreeing with what you wrote. Except Badhat's post was funny (to me, and others) and not just snarky for the sake of being an asshole.
 
And he can certainly be that. But I laughed at this supposedly offensive comment. Unfortunately, it seems our other member feels to have been targeted too often all around.

As for Sinko, dude try to find something you care about and just stick to it. Once you start DOING things you like it's hard to find time for anything else. I can't say I know what it's like to be addicted to any sort of drug, but I know I find little time for things I like when I'm too busy with others.
 
Rorschach120 said:
You are CLEARLY jumping to conclusions.

"Petty sarcastic bullshit" is what I believe I said.... This CLEARLY describes Bad^Hat's comment.
Click to expand...
Petty implies it was spiteful in some way, and it really wasn't. You can believe me or not, I'm kind of content to just bury the hatchet at this point because this is getting kind of ridiculous.
 
If you make a rude joke to someone you've known for a long time that is one thing. To take jabs at people you don't really know, that's of course going to be interpreted the way Rorschach did.

The problem is not that there are assholes here. The problem is that they treat EVERYONE that way. That can't be tolerated.
 
Vegeta897 said:
It's akin to interpreting someone correcting your grammar as them disagreeing with what you wrote. Except Badhat's post was funny (to me, and others) and not just snarky for the sake of being an asshole.
Click to expand...


If Bad Hat had disagreed with what i wrote and expressed it (well maybe except in the case of cigarettes, which are responsible for thousands of deaths a year) I wouldn't have taken that much better than what he said.

Vegeta897 said:
Light-hearted jab = petty sarcastic bullshit?
Click to expand...

Yes.

morgs said:
How far'd you get before you turned around?
Click to expand...

I really appreciate that the people who run this site are aware of what is happening.

Bad^Hat said:
Petty implies it was spiteful in some way
Click to expand...

Petty implies insignificant. Like what you said was unnecessary and completely off topic.
 
JossiRossi said:
If you make a rude joke to someone you've known for a long time that is one thing. To take jabs at people you don't really know, that's of course going to be interpreted the way Rorschach did.
Click to expand...
http://www.valvetime.net/threads/new-arrival.243446/

I took jabs at a new member in this thread, of course with no genuine hostility. To my delight, he caught on fast and played along. Omnomnick even joined in a little.

Yes, he could have totally gotten the wrong idea (especially with my first post) but if he had, I would have explained myself and apologized if necessary.

Threads like that one are some of the most special moments to me on this forum, and I know others would agree. There are people all the time who misinterpret posts as hostility, or take things the wrong way.

I don't want to see us becoming a boring, fake forum where everyone acts nice to everybody just because it may increase member signups. You can't see every new person leaving the forum as a sign that the problem is us, and not them.

Araviss is a good example. He seemed like a normal enough person, except for some stupid posts here and there. When he finally made too many stupid posts, enough people called him out on them for things to go very badly. He went berserk and proceeded to downvote hundreds of my posts, and spam the forums with alt accounts for days.

The problem was clearly Araviss, not us reacting to his stupidity. So my point is, there's a balance to be sought between blindly welcoming every new member vs. attacking new people too harshly, so that we don't end up losing what we enjoy on this forum.
 
Vegeta897 said:
http://www.valvetime.net/threads/new-arrival.243446/

I took jabs at a new member in this thread, of course with no genuine hostility. To my delight, he caught on fast and played along. Omnomnick even joined in a little.

Yes, he could have totally gotten the wrong idea (especially with my first post) but if he had, I would have explained myself and apologized if necessary.

Threads like that one are some of the most special moments to me on this forum, and I know others would agree. There are people all the time who misinterpret posts as hostility, or take things the wrong way.

I don't want to see us becoming a boring, fake forum where everyone acts nice to everybody just because it may increase member signups. You can't see every new person leaving the forum as a sign that the problem is us, and not them.
Click to expand...

Are you you really incapable of not "taking jabs" at people? You consider not being able to do so to be boring?

I think the last paragraph you've said here is one of the most contrived things I've ever read.
 
So?

Those are isolated incidents. Those in no way negate the overall problem.

I don't want the forum to be fake and saccharine to get people to post, I want the forum to not be the cesspit of insular jerks whose attitudes routinely scare away well meaning posters or discourage them from even signing up in the first place.
 
Rorschach120 said:
Are you you really incapable of not "taking jabs" at people? You consider not being able to do so to be boring?
Click to expand...
I'm not giving up threads like those just so Jossi can feel like we're a friendlier forum. I'm a friendly person at heart, but I like to have fun sometimes. It's not like anyone can even prove whether people like me are steering away or bringing in new members. Arguments could be made for both.
Rorschach120 said:
I think the last thing you've said here is one of the most contrived things I've ever read.
Click to expand...
What is contrived about it? I didn't say the problem was always them, I said you can't always say it was us.

Jossi, I'm providing examples to back up what I say. You're talking about a vague 'attitude' and giving zero evidence to back yourself up. The only evidence you had was this thread, which was a misunderstanding. You're going to have to start getting specific if you want to tell me what kind of posts we shouldn't be making anymore.

Edit: I would like to see one example of this: "cesspit of insular jerks whose attitudes routinely scare away well meaning posters" because to me that sounds like a huge exaggeration.

Edit 2: Also, please make it known when this discussion will no longer be tolerated in this thread, because I'll stop at any time if it's going to get me an infraction or something. And I know this entire truckload of bullshit isn't welcome in this thread to begin with, but we've been going back and forth for a while now, without any cease and desist orders.
 
Vegeta897 said:
I'm not giving up threads like those just so Jossi can feel like we're a friendlier forum. I'm a friendly person at heart, but I like to have fun sometimes. It's not like anyone can even prove whether people like me are steering away or bringing in new members. Arguments could be made for both.
What is contrived about it? I didn't say the problem was always them, I said you can't always say it was us.

Jossi, I'm providing examples to back up what I say. You're talking about a vague 'attitude' and giving zero evidence to back yourself up. The only evidence you had was this thread, which was a misunderstanding. You're going to have to start getting specific if you want to tell me what kind of posts we shouldn't be making anymore.

Edit: I would like to see one example of this: "cesspit of insular jerks whose attitudes routinely scare away well meaning posters" because to me that sounds like a huge exaggeration.

Edit 2: Also, please make it known when this discussion will no longer be tolerated in this thread, because I'll stop at any time if it's going to get me an infraction or something.
Click to expand...

Find me a thread where you have been legitimately "friendly" to someone who doesn't have more than 1,000 posts.

EDIT: I don't think you really care what you say as long as you don't get in trouble for saying it. At this point I am convinced you will say anything to try and prove that you don't have a generally negative attitude. I was on this forum for a week before I realized how abrasive you are.
 
Vegeta897 said:
Edit: I would like to see one example of this: "cesspit of insular jerks whose attitudes routinely scare away well meaning posters" because to me that sounds like a huge exaggeration.
Click to expand...

http://www.valvetime.net/threads/off-the-wagon.243464/

If that doesn't qualify then honestly I'm not going to waste my time trying to prove that there are many people here who are very abrasive to new and old people alike.
 
JossiRossi said:
I don't want the forum to be fake and saccharine to get people to post, I want the forum to not be the cesspit of insular jerks whose attitudes routinely scare away well meaning posters or discourage them from even signing up in the first place.
Click to expand...
News flash, this is how this "cesspit" has been for the last 9 years and it was never a problem.

People are too goddamned soft now. Grow a skin thicker than paper.
 
Tollbooth Willie said:
Only because one person made it a 'problem'.
Click to expand...

Really? I made this problem... Ya know I really do appreciate that there are staff here that can see what is happening but as people with negative attitudes don't see it as a problem (go figure) then nothing will change.

Vegeta - You linked a thread that included a comic showing that you were impressed by how they didn't mind your sarcasm... And no Omnom didn't make a jab at Mythos as you implied in your post.

Tollbooth Willie said:
People are too goddamned soft now. Grow a skin thicker than paper.
Click to expand...

Perhaps people need to grow up and stop acting like they are still in high school.
 
Rorschach120 said:
Really? I made this problem... Ya know I really do appreciate that there are staff here that can see what is happening but as people with negative attitudes don't see it as a problem (go figure) then nothing will change.

Vegeta - You linked a thread that included a comic showing that you were impressed by how they didn't mind your sarcasm... And no Omnom didn't make a jab at Mythos as you implied in your post.
Click to expand...
To clarify, I don't think you personally made it a problem. But this whole thing is stemming from a person and a misunderstanding and from Jossi's vagina dentata covered eyes.
 
Vegeta897 said:
Light-hearted jab = petty sarcastic bullshit?
Click to expand...

Rorschach120 said:
Yes.
Click to expand...

Rorschach120 said:
That guy is banned, right?
EDIT: What about a thread dedicated to the things these idiots get banned for saying? I think there is some fun to be had there.

League of Legends now added to the list of video games that I have acquired drugs through

You mean "The Penis Bay?"

If I was actually a good person, I would dedicate my life to driving around the country with the sole purpose of bringing homeless people to Portland, OR. Those hippies love more flock! You can walk block by block and get fed 3 times before you get to the next street.

That's because you're both dogs! ...Given that this isn't a real life social setting, I can see how the same rules don;t apply.

Passive aggressive much?

BTW Idiots, be sure to waste your time trying to sound smart by pointing out petty things.

They are part of Mr. Ludwig's daily satanic ritual.

I messaged random strangers like some crack baby on Christmas.

ValveTime sucks.

Sony has actually been listening to my emails. I'll finally be able to activate special abilities with my cock.

My point is to keep your comments to yourself. My attitude is towards the fact that you felt the need to comment in the first place.

f*ck christmas.

If bees had knees this game would be the c**k that extends past them.

EA Dev: "Hey guys, thanks for coming in! So Let's get right into it. How did you first find out you would be assassinating Osama Bin Laden?"
SEAL: "Oh.. Uh, about 3 years after it actually happened... yeah."

I want to hotbox one those big wooden rooms now

I'm pretty sure he's actually gay... Although, I just assumed that all of you were gay...

Just makes you look dumb for spending $70 just to "piss me off."
Click to expand...

Nope, nothing frivolous or petty in there...
 
Tollbooth Willie said:
To clarify, I don't think you personally made it a problem. But this whole thing is stemming from a person and a misunderstanding and from Jossi's vagina dentata covered eyes.
Click to expand...
You seem to be having difficulty with the idea that you will not be allowed to be a jerk with impunity.
 
cyWe23i.jpg
 
Pi, I don't think this is the time or place to be posting photos of what you got up to last Saturday afternoon.
 
I for one only come here for this sort of stuff (and no, not the sprinkler water).

If it was nicey nice like Jossi wants I'd be out of here as it'd be just like every other forum where people get their panties in a bunch over every tiny lighthearted jab at someone.
 
Okay so I just woke up like 20 minutes ago and this thread is completely insane.

The only thing that has changed in everyone's behaviour between today and early 2003 is the number of people in the forum. There has always been sarcasm, there has always been hazing. This is who we be, and it's no f***ing different from any other forum or any other "real-life" social setting (as if people interacting with each other via computers isn't "real" to begin with), with one exception: groups with such strict rules on social conduct that you can't even be sarcastic without being punished for it. Which is a description that I'm sure most of us would agree does not describe this forum to date.

This all started because Bad^Hat made a comment completely in line with his personality of several years - which has never been a problem before - which someone catastrophically misinterpreted and then, after having it explained, continued to misinterpret, in order to vent frustrations about members' behaviour which did not correlate to reality. Honestly, look around at the people who come here every day and ask yourself if any of them are actually dicks. Personally, I don't think anyone is. Yes, people fly off the handle sometimes, and sometimes jokes are misinterpreted, but that's no different from any other social thing either. Granted, I say that having spent nearly a decade on this forum, but no matter how much or how little time you've spent here or anywhere else, you simply don't get to dictate what other people mean by what they say.

The tone of this forum can generally be described as "sarcastic", and if you can't understand that and react to it in a rational way, then you need to start doing that or you need to take a step back, because understanding the tone of a social group is a basic requirement for being a part of that group in the first place. That's a fact regardless of the group. Nobody should be allowed to come in here, tell us we're all dicks when we're not, and then have the moderators punish us for it, just like I don't go hang out with my little brother's friends and complain when I don't get their jokes. And if one of their moms showed up and started telling them off for not explaining their jokes to me... well that'd be ****ing weird, wouldn't it?
 
My father quit around a year ago, but not cold-turkey. He chewed the gum (and still does).

My brother and mom just quit 3 weeks ago, but they've been puffing away on their electronic cigarettes. They told me they'd felt 100% better after the first few days.

Have you tried any kind of nicotine substitute? The gum is expensive as shit, but you can probably get a decent e-cig for pretty cheap. Sure you're still consuming nicotine but it's obviously better than smoking.

I actually don't know anyone who uses the patch but it might work for you, who knows. All I know is, quitting cold-turkey really blows.
 
Doesn't have to be nicey nice, but certain things won't just be ignored. If people are unwilling to even try and act more mature on the forums, they will be dealt with.
 
I think there's some legitimacy to what JossRoss is saying, even if this isn't the ideal example or whatever, even if people need "thicker skins," those are pretty much non sequiters. We should stop being sour ****s all the time.
 
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