The Dead Ringer

Sheepo

Sheepo

The Freeman
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Purposes of this thread are:

A) Discuss possible changes or improvements that you think would make it better.

B) Discuss new tactics that it has opened up for the Spy.

C) To say that it's "really cool".


I think it should be given full fire immunity, if not total damage immunity, for at least a couple seconds.

I've found a really cool new possible strategy is to disguise as a friendly and charge the enemy like a pyro or demo or soldier really would, upon killing you they tend to not give it another thought since friendly disguising is so seemingly pointless. It's really a cool idea that to be fully protected of spies your enemy must doubt every single kill they get. Of course this can be ruined by enemies firing a few rounds afterward (heavy, pyro, soldier, medic) but that could be solved if my first point is applied.

It's really cool.
 
A) If you recloak early, you shouldn't be penalized for an entire clock time. The penalty for uncloaking early, which is hearing the (nearby and therefore louder) sound, seems like plenty. There may be a good reason for this that I haven't stumbled upon yet.

B) Basically what you describe. In a dash with a group of people into a melee, I disguise as a friendly class of somewhat comparable body size (sniper, scout, maybe medic), and stay at the front. Otherwise, I take my chances walking into the opposing force's encampment and either make it or use the watch. I do like to switch it up, because once they figure out you're using the watch, they'll change their tactics a little.

C) I love it. Between this and the Cloak and Dagger, I can actually be a successful spy, and have, in fact, been directly responsible for the ownage of some 2fort maps (which I use as legit achievement servers). It's unbelievably satisfying to be working over the snipers on the battlements to the point where they post a pyro or watch each other's backs, or to have engineers on full alert. I had one build his sentry in front of the resupply closet below the straight stairway in 2fort, so he could linger in the safety of the resupply area and not get stabbed, but could quickly maintain his dispenser and whatnot. I must say that a good day with the spy is worth several good days with other classes.

Agreed about the fire immunity - it should be just long enough for you to get out of the way of the initial fire blast, but not long enough that if the pyro does any kind of checking that you wouldn't be found.
 
a) like I've said before...move the distinctive sound to the cloak and dagger watch instead....the deadringer doesn't need this drawback as it's already difficult enough to use with any kind of consistency due to how much the deadringer depends on situational luck.

b) like you said...friendly disguises now at least have SOME use. but it's still more beneficial to go with an enemy uniform.

c) it's a good idea...but it needs a bit of tweaking before I would use it...especially as I have the completely overpowered cloak and dagger in my possession.
 
I've found it to be pretty useless or at least highly situational.

On maps/scenarios where you need cloak to get behind the enemy you either prance around disguised as friendly (accomplishing nothing while you wait for the enemy to shoot you) or give away that you are a spy by shooting (and since most spies don't do this it also gives away that you have the Dead Ringer equipped). When you do get shot you only have 5.5 seconds to maneuver (opposed to 9 with the standard watch)

And then when you do get behind them you can't uncloak nearby because of how loud the decloaking sound is. So you have to back away a bit to decloak - but then you get caught way more often because of the extra distance you have to travel to get into range.

It's designed for escaping after backstabs, but getting anywhere without cloak is rather impractical due to how crowded the maps are - which is why Valve gave the Spy cloaking in the first place.

In short people Spy-check so often that all the extra time you have to spend uncloaked with it just makes you die so much more often.
 
Personally i think the Dead Ringer was meant to change up the way people play Spy. Most people are too damn jumpy with the cloak, they use it in call cases and a disguise is a last resort. First off the Dead Ringer removes that doubt by forcing you to not use your cloak until its really necessary, which is a surprisingly long time, and secondly it gives you a reason to want to be shot. I've had cases where i just do what i always do, sneak to the enemies final cap when they're on like, cap 3, and destroy teleporters or shoot them in the back just to mess with 'em and keep em looking for me. The Dead Ringer is perfect for that because they can shoot all day and when they finally hit me they can go piss off while i recharge my cloak and continue.
 
Best use of the Dead Ringer I've found so far is as a anti-spawn camper device.
 
Replace the dead ringer with a hand cannon, it fires small rockets.

Since the ambassador is a hand sniper. *shrug*
 
Seems alright to me. One watch unlock makes it so you practically never have to disguise while the other makes it so disguise is your primary tool.
 
3:11 on that video, how did he get into the enemy spawn like that? :|
 
I really like the dead ringer. Shame they (understandably) nerfed it to shit. The cooldown time is a little too long for my liking. :(
 
I guess that video is one way to use the deadringer....but honestly he was playing a completely retarded team...any halfway descent team he wouldn't have been able to that....

e.g. playing against n00bs that can't figure out that he's a spy when he blocks them. or pyros setting him on fire but not keep burning even when the fire shows he's still there.
 
Prince of Space has it right.


Most spies won't live long enough to make full use of their fancy new toys, as normal the cleansing lick of the golden aura that is fire removes the taint of the spy from amongst one's team and send their corrupted dirty rat soul back to the limbo of respawn.

All you have to be is a half decent Pyro (without a fear of going through your ammo like a Scotsman goes through his plentiful clean tasty tap water, mmmmmmmm, there's parts of the world dying for first and I have all this fresh stuff to waste, its criminal!).
 
Most spies. Great ones manage fine. They dominate.
 
Cant dominate a pyro coming out of spawn spraying everywhere then going back in for ammo and repeating twice before properly playing
 
ktimekiller said:
Cant dominate a pyro coming out of spawn spraying everywhere then going back in for ammo and repeating twice before properly playing
Click to expand...

...Properly playing being spraying everywhere else twice.

I also find soldier good for spy checking.
 
On the chokiest maps and stages maybe.
 
The Dead Ringer works well but it's still as piss weak as ever against Pyro's, honestly, it doesn't help that everyone is a panzy with Pyro's and fires at anything that moves. Personally i think that if you used it to escape a Pyro, you shouldn't be able to be relit for like 3 seconds or so, enough time for that fire demon to stop randomly swinging his aim around hoping for a kill.
 
Eejit said:
On the chokiest maps and stages maybe.
Click to expand...

True, but lest also remember, slow moving soldier is tempting to many spies, you just got to always be paranoid, keep turning around, one will eventually slip up, bump into you, kablammo, spy aint got the health to shrug off getting a rocket up his polished Gallic pipe.
 
FISHY CRACKERS said:
The Dead Ringer works well but it's still as piss weak as ever against Pyro's, honestly, it doesn't help that everyone is a panzy with Pyro's and fires at anything that moves. Personally i think that if you used it to escape a Pyro, you shouldn't be able to be relit for like 3 seconds or so, enough time for that fire demon to stop randomly swinging his aim around hoping for a kill.
Click to expand...


I remember a recent game where I burned down an enemy spy, stopped and taunted over his body, and as I was taunting he decloaked in front of me, I was stabbing the fire key and got him.

It made me smile a little.


Also if your crying about a Pyro as a Spy your either a newbie or a gnarled bitter old veteran.

Regardless, use the Ambassador against Pyro's, I've noticed it used against me as a Pyro to reasonable effect. Allot of Pyro's will chase down a spy.

I'm learning to switch to flare and duck behind cover when I hear the imbassador firing but it seems a sound Spy tactic if your dumb enough to try and take on your hard counter.


I also covered a capture point with the ambassador as a spy, it was quite fun having a running gun fight with other enemies and making them squirm. Such a powerful gun....too powerful perhaps, so enjoy it while it lasts Spies.
 
Pyro is for people who can't be arsed to put effort into playing the game.
 
-Psy- said:
Pyro is for people who can't be arsed to put effort into playing the game.
Click to expand...

Pyro is for people who realize that they are indeed just playing a game, and above all else, games are meant to be fun... and setting people on fire can be ridiculously fun! :flame:

As is hitting someone with a flare from across the map, shooting someone with your shotgun who is running away in flames, reflecting rockets back at Soldiers, and airblasting people off of ledges and CPs....

An average Pyro can set a bunch of people on fire, that's a given...but a great Pyro can turn the tides of the match (as is the case for most classes).
 
-Psy- said:
Pyro is for people who can't be arsed to put effort into playing the game.
Click to expand...

I guess airblasting and flanking without being noticed takes no effort whatsoever huh Psy
 
-Psy- said:
Pyro is for people who can't be arsed to put effort into playing the game.
Click to expand...

Ahahaha, I've never met a person who says this that is good at Pyro, funnily enough.
 
You can't really be a GOOD Pyro, you can pretty much tape down the left mouse button and w and you'll get like 20 kills...
 
I'd love to play against all of you in Arena.

Pyro difficulty is variable. It mostly has to do with the other players. There's a plateau where suddenly pyro's usefulness goes very flat when other players in other classes know how to deal with her.
 
FISHY CRACKERS said:
I should know, i used to play as Pyro before it occured to me that's basically what i was doing.
Click to expand...
Do you realize, then, that you quit playing a class because of the click rate associated with firing their main weapon? There's just as much strategy with the Pyro as there is with any other class, if not slightly more.
 
FISHY CRACKERS said:
You can't really be a GOOD Pyro, you can pretty much tape down the left mouse button and w and you'll get like 20 kills...
Click to expand...

FISHY CRACKERS said:
I should know, i used to play as Pyro before it occured to me that's basically what i was doing.
Click to expand...

Ah, that makes sense then. Psychologically speaking, this is called projection - just because you did not utilize the full potential of the Pyro does not mean that it cannot be done by others.


Psychological projection:
An example of this behavior might be blaming another for one's own failure. The mind may avoid the discomfort of consciously admitting personal faults by keeping those feelings unconscious, and redirect their libidinal satisfaction by attaching, or "projecting," those same faults onto another.
 
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