Welcome Bulgaria And Romiania!

[15357]

Well the economy would collapse if no private sector employees worked. The private sector is more important to the economy than the vast majority of the public sector, I would say.

OF COURSE! But I mean about getting benefits.

 

[jondy]

Retard, you work for your own sake. Unless you're military/public service, which I highly doubt, your working means shit.

You pay taxes for transportation and education. If you paid taxes for your and other's healthcare, you would be paying 80% income tax.

You get cancer, if you don't treat it, you die. If you don't have moeny, well then, you should have got a paying job when you could have.

Numbers, don't call other people here 'retard', it's embarrassing.

As for your stance on healthcare, get a clue. Your imaginary figures on healthcare are ridiculous. Families are being economically destroyed right now because of terminal illness, cancer, heart disease, you ****in' name it. Sickness is a lottery and if you think people without health insurance 'deserve' their situation, you need to think about just why they haven't got it in the first place.

Do some reading.

 

[15357]

Numbers, don't call other people here 'retard', it's embarrassing.

Uh huh, and he can call me an idiot?

As for your stance on healthcare, get a clue. Your imaginary figures on healthcare are ridiculous.

What imaginary figures?

Families are being economically destroyed right now because of terminal illness, cancer, heart disease, you ****in' name it.

And?

Sickness is a lottery and if you think people without health insurance 'deserve' their situation, you need to think about just why they haven't got it in the first place.

[/QUOTE]

Nobody 'deserves' to have cancer and not be able to cure it. But free medcare should be a previleage, not a right.

Do some reading.

I do. A lot.

 

[jondy]

What imaginary figures?

If you paid taxes for your and other's healthcare, you would be paying 80% income tax.

..

And?

You're right, lets not give a damn about how the bottom strata of society in developed countries like America are completely paralyzed by their inability to pay for medical expenses

Nobody 'deserves' to have cancer and not be able to cure it. But free medcare should be a previleage, not a right.

Explain why, in a country that's able to pay for it's citizens healthcare, that should be the case.

 

[Ome_Vince]

Well, free med-care should be seen as a privilege by the people , but it should be everybody's right. That god we have a social base in my country.

 

[repiV]

Why do people keep talking about "free" healthcare?
It's not free!

 

[CookieCuttah]

.

You've lost it mate. The people of eastern Europe are more than happy to get the Russians out. Just ask any on this forum.

You're an idiot.
People love to have them out? Yeah when they can still sell their crappy products to Russia and buy oil for cheap, but when Russia gives em at market price... Oh how the tears flow! Hypocrites. "Eastern Europe" is a bunch of exploiters and the only people who are happy about having them gone is Russia. Maybe YOU all need to read a textbook, you know.. Without 99.9% propaganda writing.

 

[The Monkey]

You're an idiot.
People love to have them out? Yeah when they can still sell their crappy products to Russia and buy oil for cheap, but when Russia gives em at market price... Oh how the tears flow! Hypocrites. "Eastern Europe" is a bunch of exploiters and the only people who are happy about having them gone is Russia. Maybe YOU all need to read a textbook, you know.. Without 99.9% propaganda writing.

Propaganda=non-Stalinist?

I don't know what kind of textbooks you've been reading in whatever sphere of ignorance you've shut yourself into, but I doubt they tell much about the political oppression by Soviet both against their own people and people in their puppet states. The policies of the Soviet in terms of economic planning also led to millions of death. Holodomor, or the Ukrainian genocide as it's sometimes called, is just one example.

You're a bigot and an idiot if you think that half a century of oppression is "propaganda".

 

[baka-raven]

You pay taxes for transportation and education. If you paid taxes for your and other's healthcare, you would be paying 80% income tax.

In Denmark we pay 40% taxes, and we have free healthcare. so no 80% taxes mr ^^

 

[repiV]

If you're paying 40% tax, then your healthcare isn't free is it?

 

[15357]

..

Ok, 40%.

You're right, lets not give a damn about how the bottom strata of society in developed countries like America are completely paralyzed by their inability to pay for medical expenses

Well, your choice.

Explain why, in a country that's able to pay for it's citizens healthcare, that should be the case.

#1. Not everyone is going to need healthcare.

#2. [DELETE]

#3. It can't.

In Denmark we pay 40% taxes, and we have free healthcare. so no 80% taxes mr ^^

Hey, guess what? We pay 15% or less and we have nationwide health insurance. No 40% taxes. 40% is robbery.

 

[Solaris]

#2. There are far more important things.

Than the lives of it's citizens?

 

[15357]

Than the lives of it's citizens?

DELETE>>e55e

 

[repiV]

There are far more important things than healthcare?
I'm going to give you an opportunity to explain that one numbers, because I have a feeling you didn't quite mean what you said...
A top five list of the most important things a healthy nation MUST do well would most definitely include healthcare. You're crazy if you think otherwise. The dispute is merely in how that healthcare should be provided.

 

[15357]

Ok, hmm... delete that.

 

[kirovman]

#1. Not everyone is going to need healthcare.

(Virtually) everyone uses healthcare (in a developed nation anyway).

Never had vaccinations or health checkups before?

Serious illnesses do crop up in anyone. It's a lottery.

Frankly I'd prefer the system over here, to say the one in China.

Here, if you have a heart attack, the Ambulance comes and takes you to hospital, no worry about bills, your only worry is your life.

In China the Ambulance comes and they stand around smoking, discussing whether the guy having a heart attack has enough money. So you've not only got to worry about your life, you've got to worry about the bills on top of that. Same in Russia, and to a (much?) lesser extent, the US.

 

[Nemesis6]

Can't help but think of a quote from Lord of War -

"Welcome. Welcome to Democracy!"

 

[jondy]

Well, your choice.

Y'know mate, just forget I said anything




...

 

[15357]

(Virtually) everyone uses healthcare (in a developed nation anyway).

Never had vaccinations or health checkups before?

Serious illnesses do crop up in anyone. It's a lottery.

Frankly I'd prefer the system over here, to say the one in China.

Here, if you have a heart attack, the Ambulance comes and takes you to hospital, no worry about bills, your only worry is your life.

In China the Ambulance comes and they stand around smoking, discussing whether the guy having a heart attack has enough money. So you've not only got to worry about your life, you've got to worry about the bills on top of that. Same in Russia, and to a (much?) lesser extent, the US.

But free healthcare should be reserved for those who have done a service, or the ones that can't pay for it. The ones that can't pay for it, even with national health insurance, should be taken care of, but indebted via taxes.

 

[ZeeM]

Nobody 'deserves' to have cancer and not be able to cure it. But free medcare should be a previleage, not a right.

Sorry pal but you sound like a complete dumbass. I said to myself that I wont post in the politics forum anymore but your post just forced me do it. Everyone deserves free healthcare just like they deserve education although the latter is not nearly as important as the former.
You know, there are people in this world that don't have enough money to afford healthcare which is very expensive, yet they have the right to live this life just like everyone else, even more that scum like you who have have such non-humane point of views on the matter.
Have you ever left your house to see whats "life"? There are poor, there are rich, there are also people that can barely get by and support their families. What if some of them gets seriously ill? That would be a disaster for them and their family and as a consequence for their kids (see "education" also requires "health").
A guy pointed out on some previous post

Families are being economically destroyed right now because of terminal illness, cancer, heart disease, you ****in' name it.

Your reply was "And?". What the **** does that mean? Do you really believe that someone that has a serious disease doesnt deserve healthcare just because he/she cant afford it?

Nobody 'deserves' to have cancer and not be able to cure it. But free medcare should be a previleage, not a right.

You just contradicted yourself.

 

[15357]

Sorry pal but you sound like a complete dumbass.

Ok.

I said to myself that I wont post in the politics forum anymore but your post just forced me do it.

Right.

Everyone deserves free healthcare just like they deserve education although the latter is not nearly as important as the former.

Healthcare is a product. Nobody should ever get anything for frree.

You know, there are people in this world that don't have enough money to afford healthcare which is very expensive, yet they have the right to live this life just like everyone else, even more that scum like you who have have such non-humane point of views on the matter.

Yes they do. I'm not stopping them.

Have you ever left your house to see whats "life"? There are poor, there are rich, there are also people that can barely get by and support their families.

I know all about 'life'. The poor have it bad, the rich are obnoxious, and we are stuck in the middle of hell and heaven.

What if some of them gets seriously ill? That would be a disaster for them and their family and as a consequence for their kids (see "education" also requires "health").
A guy pointed out on some previous post

Thats why I said: "But free healthcare should be reserved for those who have done a service, or the ones that can't pay for it. The ones that can't pay for it, even with national health insurance, should be taken care of, but indebted via taxes."

Your reply was "And?". What the **** does that mean? Do you really believe that someone that has a serious disease doesnt deserve healthcare just because he/she cant afford it?

See above.

You just contradicted yourself.

Nope. I didn't.

 

[repiV]

Sorry pal but you sound like a complete dumbass. I said to myself that I wont post in the politics forum anymore but your post just forced me do it. Everyone deserves free healthcare just like they deserve education although the latter is not nearly as important as the former.

Let me just start by saying that there's nothing wrong with your ideals. However, the concept of "free" healthcare is a misnomer. Healthcare is NOT FREE. You MUST understand this concept before you can have any kind of informed view on the situation. Nothing is free. It's paid for out of a heavy tax burden, there's a big difference.

You know, there are people in this world that don't have enough money to afford healthcare which is very expensive, yet they have the right to live this life just like everyone else, even more that scum like you who have have such non-humane point of views on the matter.

Only the very rich could afford the costs of treatment for life-threatening illnesses or chronic conditions. I was looking at getting my mum admitted to M D Anderson cancer centre in Texas, the best cancer treatment centre in the world, and I was quoted $140,000 just for the standard surgery and radiotherapy that she could get over here. Go figure.
However, that's why insurance companies exist. A capitalist healthcare system assumes that people are smart enough to get insurance, and they should be.
Furthermore, nobody is denied life-saving treatment in the USA. In all likelihood, the treatment given is of a far higher quality than that in the UK, since it is not restricted by budgets and bureaucracy to anywhere near the same extent. The standard of care is much better there. But you will be liable for the bill or insurance claim afterwards.

Have you ever left your house to see whats "life"? There are poor, there are rich, there are also people that can barely get by and support their families. What if some of them gets seriously ill? That would be a disaster for them and their family and as a consequence for their kids (see "education" also requires "health").
A guy pointed out on some previous post

Yes, that's why they should get insurance.

Your reply was "And?". What the **** does that mean? Do you really believe that someone that has a serious disease doesnt deserve healthcare just because he/she cant afford it?

It's got nothing to do with whether they deserve it or not. It's a practical concern - who's going to pay for it?
The moral issue is stealing from the rich or healthy to give to the poor or unhealthy - ie. taxes. We all pay out of our taxes for healthcare, even if we're privately insured (as I am), and yet we have no say at all in determining the treatment given. Some treatments are available in Scotland but not in England, and some are not available at all - purely because of cost.
Socialised healthcare takes all the power away from the patient. Big Brother decides what's best, and isn't very good at doing so. The free market is a much fairer and more effective way of administering healthcare in this regard.

 

[jondy]

The free market is a much fairer and more effective way of administering healthcare in this regard.

Just by glancing over at the healthcare situation in America you can see that's not the case. The UK's system may be inefficient, but it's not the only way to do state health.

 

[repiV]

Just by glancing over at the healthcare situation in America you can see that's not the case. The UK's system may be inefficient, but it's not the only way to do state health.

The problem is that there are no assurances with any kind of state healthcare system. You can say "reform could sort it out", and sure, it could. But inevitably someone else will **** it up again in the future. There are no other avenues to turn to - unless you're loaded.
The NHS will pay out thousands for liposuction for overweight teenagers, who are responsible for their own stupid situation (and I say this as a somewhat overweight person), but deem that Alzheimer's drugs for people who've been paying into the NHS their entire productive lives are "not cost-effective" (at ?2.50 per day per patient, which also avoids the much more significant cost of care home costs by delaying the progression of the disease).
Give me American healthcare any day.

 

[Kadayi]

Interesting debate, you guys do realise we have private healthcare/hospitals/consultancies in the UK as well?

 

[repiV]

Interesting debate, you guys do realise we have private healthcare/hospitals/consultancies in the UK as well?

Yes, but we don't get excused from paying tax to the NHS if we decide to use them.