A Song of Ice And Fire thread - REDUX!

Eejit

Eejit

The Freeman
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So the previous one about the books died and we shouldn't keep discussing the books in the HBO series thread.

Feel free to discuss theories n stuff as well as opinions: R+L=J, the three heads of the dragon, Quaithe's prophecies and so on.


Any ideas about spoiler policy? A Dance With Dragons has been out quite a while but as far as I can tell a lot of forumites only started reading during the TV show's broadcast and aren't at that stage yet.
 
perhaps use spoiler tags but make it obvious to which book they are referring to beforehand e.g.

a dance with dragons:

etc etc blah blah etc ...
 
I stopped watching after the end of season 1 when

they killed sean bean

That is all.
 
mechanicallizard said:
I stopped watching after the end of season 1 when

they killed sean bean

That is all.
Click to expand...
You are
missing out
because as it turns out
Ned Stark
is one of the most boring
characters in the series.
^.^
 
Well the only other one I liked was the

Midget

And

TV is ****ing boring anyway

So

Anything can happen in the next ten seconds
Troy.jpg

But seriously. Ill give it another go when the new season comes out. I dont want to read the books.
 
then get out of the thread, i'm not pussyfooting around this one as well.

also lol at liking ned stark.
 
knut said:
i guess the people who might of figured cersei wouldn't be around later are probably the same kind of people who thought ned's handling of the game of thrones was smart. she's destined to live for quite a while and it's established pretty early on by her cunning and deceiving.
Click to expand...
Have you even read the books past the first one? Cersei is a goddamn idiot.
 
I've never watched/read the game of thrones before.
I would have watched them all... once I found out Sean Bean was in it.
Now I know he's not in it any more I no longer wish to watch it.
Thank you thread.
 
ríomhaire said:
Have you even read the books past the first one? Cersei is a goddamn idiot.
Click to expand...

i've finished them, you should know since you were all on my back about spoilers post-a feast for crow not a couple of hours ago...

but her actions at kings landing during the ''game of thrones'' (and i'm not talking about the book title here) arc imply cunning. later on, yeah, she's an idiot - i said nothing of her character post-a game of thrones, save for that i find her interesting in the same way i find, say... victarion interesting, for all his horrendous habits and awful, obviously evil personality - i'm referring to her handling of the situation with ned and king robert.
 
ríomhaire said:
Have you even read the books past the first one? Cersei is a goddamn idiot.
Click to expand...

To be fair she does seem to have gotten more paranoid and deranged post-
Joff's death followed by Tywin's murder
And she's still ruthless enough to have a good chance at survival.
 
She's ruthless but easily played by the other characters. She's alive because she's more useful to Littlefinger and Varys alive than she is dead.
 
So guys, are you for or against R+L=J? :)

I'm a believer personally. Too much evidence and the scattered counter-explanations are too numerous, flavours of red herring there.
 
ríomhaire said:
She's ruthless but easily played by the other characters. She's alive because she's more useful to Littlefinger and Varys alive than she is dead.
Click to expand...

right, and ned is dead because he was stupider than cersei. shall we move on?
 
you said you were no longer interested in the show... why should we worry about spoiling anything else for you?

Mogi67 said:
You'd probably hate the rest of the series because everyone dies
Click to expand...

i remember reading similar things once and it turns out i was expecting a lot worse.

regarding pov's and deaths, unsure where relevant as a number of times something of similar effect happens. read if up to date, i suppose? ...

so many people in these books are seemingly killed off, only for rumours of their demise to be greatly exaggerated later on, or martin left it on a cliffhanger for a couple of chapters just for dramatic effect or emphasis. lots of background characters die, i expected a lot more ned stark deaths to happen though. but i suppose as the books progress more one-off pov characters appear and subsequently usually die, so i guess it is sort of true.
 
i don't think it was meant to be taken too seriously
 
As a rule of thumb
POV character reliably die when seen from another character's POV but if they appear to die in their own POV they tend to come back.
 
re: rule of thumb, spoiler for end of a dance with dragons:

so what do we think about jon snow and his ceaser-esqe backstabbing? i have your rule of thumb subconsciously going when reading, but you can never be too sure.
 
I doubt he's dead dead. Wounded badly with the cold slowing blood loss sure. Melisandre is around to do Moqorro-like healing or Thoros-like resurrection if necessary.
 
it'd be a shame to see him go, even if his recent chapters weren't all that exciting, i was still hooked to his management of the wall. anything wall related = yes.
 
It'd be an absolute waste, especially if you believe in R+L=J and all the buildup and hints toward that.
 
Eejit said:
ADWD
I doubt he's dead dead. Wounded badly with the cold slowing blood loss sure. Melisandre is around to do Moqorro-like healing or Thoros-like resurrection if necessary.
Click to expand...
ADWD
I think he's dead dead. As much as Cat was dead dead until Beric came along. There are a number of ways in the locality he could come back. There's Mel giving him the kiss of life, there's his spirit residing in Ghost for a while or permanently (see ADWD prologue) and doing something thusly and there's the possibility of coming back as an intelligent wight like Coldhands or some combination of these things.
 
I still dont know what R+L=J means.

I'm guessing its supposed to be people's names and suggesting the possibilities of relation, but what are the actual names?
 
Eejit said:
It'd be an absolute waste, especially if you believe in R+L=J and all the buildup and hints toward that.
Click to expand...
How about we proceed all discussion about said character with "ENDGAME SPOILERS," seeing as how this is predictive of plot points waaaaay down the line and a lot of people haven't pieced it together themselves. Krynn is the perfect example of someone who's read ADWD, can name all the houses and characters, but still hasn't figured out the formula theory/be all big reveal. It's not _that_ obvious, so let's let them spoil themselves at their own peril.

Endgame (DO NOT READ DOGGIE):
Seriously, you mutt, stay out.
I'm hoping it was just a passing-out J POV end, and that he won't become yet another zombie character. It's established that being resurrected kind of ****s with your brain, and I can hardly imagine J + D (oh hey my own theory) ruling as queen and corpse. Even the warg body-snatching thing would ruin the story, seeing as how he would have no legitimate claim to the throne since he literally wouldn't have Targ blood anymore.
ADWD:
I'm less anxious about J's fate as Stannis'. Goddamn did I want him to live on. He finally starts doing proactive shit and then it's just another colossal army wipe. It's outright suggested that Bolton is lying, but that's a pretty bold lie--the detail about "I have his magic sword" seems to give his claim validity... or it could just be another lie. I'm hoping he got all his info about Stannis by torturing Mance.

Oh, it would also make less narrative sense for Stannis to be dead considering all the plot points that are merging on him: Theon, Asha, the banker from Braavos (iirc)... too many people would have to be conveniently spared or killed for just Stannis to die. And it would be a pretty big letdown for Theon to be recaptured/killed after all those chapters about him having survived and trying to escape.

Oh and also, Melisandre is an abandoning bitch.
 
adwd:

no way is stannis dead, bolton is just reeling. stannis' army is in a perilous position, but then so is bolton's with outright mutiny (right word? guess it's more cabin fever/houses at each others throats) going on beyond the walls of winterfell. i think he's just absolutely ****ed and clutching at straws. at least, that's how i read his message.
 
BTW, has anyone read tWoW spoiler chapter(s)? I'm going to be avoiding them myself.
 
AGoT spoilers:

R+L=J is the theory that Jon Snow is in fact Ned's nephew, heir to the Iron Throne and the trueborn son of Rhaegar Targaryen with his second wife Lyanna Stark. The main evidence for this is Tower of Joy flashback Ned has. Three Kingsguard including their commander protecting Lyanna after the fall of King's Landing when you would expect them to be guarding Viserys on Dragonstone... and Ned's promise to Lyanna as she lay on a bed of blood, a promise that he's paid for ever since.
 
ríomhaire said:
BTW, has anyone read tWoW spoiler chapter(s)? I'm going to be avoiding them myself.
Click to expand...

read the first 2/3 lines, disliked reading it off of my computer screen, decided to wait it out instead.
 
Eejit said:
AGoT spoilers:
Click to expand...
Whyyyyy, why you do this. You're ruining the surprise for those who haven't figured it out. At least call it a series spoiler, now everyone's going to read that.
 
It's only a theory and I only based it on strong hints found in the first book. Also there are still quite a few fans who disagree for various reasons.

Do you find theories about Ep3 to spoil things for you?
 
I find it extremely hard to not believe it, as there are other scenes you didn't mentioned that give credence to it. But still, it will colour the way people read it, somewhat cheapening the experience.

ADWD:
I mean after all, it gives us the idea that Jon has plot immunity for the time being, which ruins the tension of seeing him be in dangerous situations.
 
The main opposing position to R+L=J is
That Lyanna was indeed pregnant with Rhaegar's heir, but had a stillbirth at the Tower of Joy. It explains almost everything though I personally don't find it convincing.
AGoT spoilers ^
 
Martin is more careful with his words than you might think.

Read only if you want it ruined:

AGoT:
"Ned thought, If it came to that, the life of some child I did not know, against Robb and Sansa and Arya and Bran and Rickon, what would I do? Even more so, what would Catelyn do, if it were Jon's life, against the children of her body? He did not know."

Notice who's missing from the list of children Ned "knows."

A Song of Ice and Fire >> Houses Stark and Targaryan
If after all these little clues it's a red herring... my god that's one leviathan herring we've got on our hands.
 
Question.

Double Spoilered for safety

What happened to Winterfell at the end of COK? I understand it burned down, but the entire last chapter with Theon was confusing, I don't understand how Smiler got an army and from whom. Something about him killing someone and then tricking someone and then taking an army back to Winterfell to take it from Theon or something.
 
Ramsay Snow is Roose Bolton (Stark's strongest bannermen, jealous house)'s bastard son. He is little known nor seen in courtly life. Reek is Ramsay's companion/buttfriend since childhood. They are inseparable.
While his father is away at war, Ramsay begins to amass troops at the Dreadfort.[4] When he receives news that the neighboring lands of House Hornwood had lost both their lord and his heir, he attacks, taking the Hornwood keep and forcing the widowed Lady Donella Manderly to marry him.[5] He then locks her in a tower without food, where she starves to death after eating some of her fingers.[6] At Robb Stark's request, Lord Manderly sends his men to kill Ramsay and stop the atrocities. The party comes across Ramsay shortly after he had raped and killed a peasant girl and his companion Reek had raped the corpse. Ramsay is able to survive by switching clothes with Reek, who is killed in his place.

Ramsay is taken as a prisoner to Winterfell in the guise of Reek. After Theon Greyjoy captures Winterfell, Ramsay exchanges a vow of service to Theon for his release.[7] He quickly becomes one of Theon's more (seemingly) trustworthy attendants, assisting Theon on his hunt to bring the escaped Bran and Rickon Stark back to Winterfell. He orchestrates Theon's cover-up of the Stark boys' escape by killing two peasant boys of an age with the Starks, and then flaying the corpses to avoid recognition. Theon presents their flayed corpses as the Starks, then has their heads mounted on spikes over the castle walls. The tide soon turns against Theon, however, when Dagmer Cleftjaw's assault is broken and the Northmen, enraged at Theon's duplicity and supposed murder of the young Stark children, march on Winterfell to liberate it. Unwilling to abandon the castle, though harboring few delusions about how likely a victory is, Theon and the few Ironmen loyal to him prepare to make their final stand. Ramsay offers to help Theon by taking a large sum of money to the Dreadfort and returning with much-needed reinforcements.[8]

After consulting with his father, Ramsay and his forces march to Winterfell just as Ser Rodrik Cassel and his host move to greet them. Ramsay swaps his serving man's garb for a full set of armour complete with a red helmet, and meets with Rodrik. As the castellan offers him his hand in friendship, however, Ramsay slices Cassel's arm off and leads his forces in a rampage through the stunned Northmen's ranks. Ramsay then rides to Winterfell's gates, and presents the corpses of Ser Rodrik, Leobald Tallhart and Cley Cerwyn to an onlooking Theon as a sign of his loyalty. Theon opens the gates and meets with Ramsay himself, who removes his red helmet and reveals his true identity. He tells Theon that he would much enjoy the use of his bed-warmer Kyra, and knocks him to the floor when Theon protests. Ramsay carries out a great sack of Winterfell, murdering many of its inhabitants in cold blood, slaughtering the remaining Ironmen, and capturing Theon in the process.
Click to expand...
 
Ordered 5th book; should come today. Can't wait to start reading about Daenerys and her dragons. :E
 
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