Has the whole world gone completely off its ****ing nuts?

Looks like we're going backwards again.

"By not dismissing their beliefs, we can ensure that these students learn what evolutionary theory really says - and give everyone the understanding to respect the views of others," he added.
Click to expand...
That's precisely it. We need teachers who'll roll up a newspaper and swat you on the head and tell you that your stupid belief ISN'T worthy of respect. Respecting religion sets us back because we have to tiptoe around it and not teach what is supposed to be taught. We have to be cautious of what Christians and Creationists and Muslims think.

They're STUPID. FFS, they're STUPID. Why should we respect stupidity? I don't respect anyone who closes their eyes to the truth and follows customs and 'knowledge' of a bunch of moldy books.
 
At least we're all getting a nice history lesson on the Dark Ages.
 
I have to check myself when I start getting alarmist 'hell in a handbasket' type thoughts, I worry that I'm getting middle aged early, but seriously, wtf is going on?
It's as if rational people have no place in the UK anymore - on one side is cowardly over-tolerance (or is it vote-grabbing) of religous BS (which has its place to an extent in a liberal, open society) causing this sort of nonsense, and on the other side are extremist Daily-Mail types flocking to the BNP or anyone who says they'll kick out 'illegals'...
Democracy ftl when a society forgets its values.
 
BBC said:
Prof Reiss estimates that one in 10 people in the UK now believes in literal interpretations of religious creation stories
Click to expand...
What. No. Come on. I have to live here!
 
Come to Australia. I'm fairly certain that shit doesn't happen here.
 
I was never taught evolution in school, nor was I taught anything else related to the origin of life. The only thing we did in science class was learning about rocks.
 
Not too worried about that occurring here considering the minister of education here is an atheistic molecular biologist known for his anti-ID standpoint :thumbs:
 
Evolution is absolutely essential to any biology. Without it, biology is just a list of meaningless facts, it's evolution that ties them together.
 
Prof Reiss says the rise of creationism is partly down to the large increase in Muslim pupils in UK schools.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but THAT up there, It's really really getting on my nerves.
 
It's Soulslicer, he has yet to post something anyone understands.

Evolution isn't a bloody theory, it's fact! If a animal develops a useless function it will die, it's certain, and if it develops a positive one it will survive. Then you just got to trace back to one billion years ago and thing a little.
 
Where the hell has this come from? I've sensed no kind of Christian revival in this country at all.

Sure, the moral majority are as loud as ever when they bleat in the Daily Mail about cannibalistic paedophile immigrants stealing our NHS due to the influence of video games, but Christianity itself has been a joke for ages. This seems like a bolt from the blue.

Edit: Ugh, I'm tired, should have just read the article properly first -_- Yay for ****ing Islam.
 
Muslims are taking us over, oh well, better get friendly with the new bosses, Praise Allah!
 
This really stupid i was not allowed to learn about Evolution in school because of these reasons yet i was forced to do religious education and got kicked out for mentioning Evolution in the lesson counts as insulting the teaching of the Bible and Koran do we. The sooner i leave this place the better.
 
Atomic_Piggy said:
Fixed :thumbs:
Click to expand...


You know, Australia and New Zealand are constantly becoming more and more attractive as places to live, apart from, possibly, some mild 'Violent Games' bandwaggon activity.

But I dont think its quite as bad in this country as the article makes out.
 
PimpinPenguin said:
This really stupid i was not allowed to learn about Evolution in school because of these reasons yet i was forced to do religious education and got kicked out for mentioning Evolution in the lesson counts as insulting the teaching of the Bible and Koran do we. The sooner i leave this place the better.
Click to expand...

Is it a faith school? If it is, why are you going? If not, that is ****ed up.
 
cabbs said:
You know, Australia and New Zealand are constantly becoming more and more attractive as places to live, apart from, possibly, some mild 'Violent Games' bandwaggon activity.

But I dont think its quite as bad in this country as the article makes out.
Click to expand...

No kidding. I'd love to go to NZ.. and not come back.
 
If I was a teacher I'd tell the students they can listen to evolution or GTFO.
 
Atomic_Piggy said:
Is it a faith school? If it is, why are you going? If not, that is ****ed up.
Click to expand...

It was not a faith School just a regular high school infact they pride themselves on being a science and Technology college aswell. which is quite pathetic if they won't teach a major part of science.
 
I find it kind of ironic that here in Romania where there are lots of religious and superstitious people, the teachers in biology class had absolutely no problem teaching evolution. There was one guy in high school who kept asking the theology teacher "uncomfortable" questions, gotta love that guy:P.
 
PimpinPenguin said:
It was not a faith School just a regular high school infact they pride themselves on being a science and Technology college as well. which is quite pathetic if they won't teach a major part of science.
Click to expand...
Whats the name of the school. And thats terrible. You should have contacted the news or even taken them to court. Because that is serious negligence of their duties and responsibilities.
 
How can we have a smug sense of superiority to America, if we have these morons. People promoting ID should be in prison for fraud.
 
You people are British, you're not supposed to kowtow to other cultures... you're supposed to make them kowtow to yours like your forefathers did.
 
There's a nasty stench of knee-jerk racism around here, one mention of creationism+Islam has got all the dogs barking.

The fact of the matter is most of the increase in the pressure for creationism in schools is down to fundamentalist Christians, specifically from the USA:

Revealed: rise of creationism in UK schools
Dozens of schools are using creationist teaching materials condemned by the government as "not appropriate to support the science curriculum", the Guardian has learned.
The packs promote the creationist alternative to Darwinian evolution called intelligent design and the group behind them said 59 schools are using the information as "a useful classroom resource". ...
...The DVDs were produced in America and feature figures linked to the Discovery Institute in Seattle, a thinktank that has made concerted efforts to promote ID and insert it into high school science lessons in the US. ...
Click to expand...
http://education.guardian.co.uk/schools/story/0,,1957858,00.html
'Design' attack on school science
Parents are being encouraged to challenge their children's science teachers over what they are explaining as the origins of life.

An organisation called Truth in Science has also sent resource packs to all UK secondary school science departments.

It promotes the idea of intelligent design - that there was an intelligence behind the creation of the universe.

Humanists and a Christian think tank want the government to tell teachers to keep "a wholly scientific perspective". ...
Click to expand...
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/education/5392096.stm

'Creationism' school opens its doors
A new ?20m school which will teach biblical creation, opens on Teesside on Monday.
The King's Academy in Middlesbrough, is a partnership between the Department for Education and the Wearside-based Vardy Foundation.

It is a sister facility to Gateshead's Emmanuel College, which already has a "creationism" curriculum.

The boss of Sunderland-based car dealership Reg Vardy has provided much of the cash for the school - and plans more throughout the UK. ...
Click to expand...

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/tees/3088444.stm

And from the horses mouth ;
Christians??Fundamentalist Taliban Wannabees??25 May 2002


Ken Ham?s recent creation tour of the UK created an unprecedented media frenzy, which embroiled Answers in Genesis internationally. News of the controversy in Britain became an international headline! (See Ken Ham stirs up England)

A letter to the editor of the British Guardian newspaper from American professor Niall Shanks of East Tennessee State University in the USA declared:

?If the experience in the US is anything to go by, this attempt by assorted Christian fundamentalist Taliban-wannabees to turn the clock of science back to the Middle Ages will not stop with biology.?

In the humanist furore that was directed against a British Christian school, AiG and Bible-believing Christians?even British Prime Minister Tony Blair became involved!

Here at AiG we decided that what happened can alert you to something very important for the future of Christian democracies. We believe this report is ?must reading? for every Christian who is concerned about the future of the Church and of reviving Biblical authority in their country. The events of the past few weeks are fascinating, yet very alarming! ...
Click to expand...
http://www.answersingenesis.org/news/taliban.asp

Archbishop: stop teaching creationism
The Archbishop of Canterbury, Rowan Williams, has stepped into the controversy between religious fundamentalists and scientists by saying that he does not believe that creationism - the Bible-based account of the origins of the world - should be taught in schools.
Giving his first, wide-ranging, interview at Lambeth Palace, the archbishop was emphatic in his criticism of creationism being taught in the classroom, as is happening in two city academies founded by the evangelical Christian businessman Sir Peter Vardy and several other schools.
"I think creationism is ... a kind of category mistake, as if the Bible were a theory like other theories ... if creationism is presented as a stark alternative theory alongside other theories I think there's just been a jarring of categories ... My worry is creationism can end up reducing the doctrine of creation rather than enhancing it," he said.
The debate over creationism or its slightly more sophisticated offshoot, so-called "intelligent design" (ID) which argues that creation is so complex that an intelligent - religious - force must have directed it, has provoked divisions in Britain but nothing like the vehemence or politicisation of the debate in the US. There, under pressure from the religious right, some states are considering giving ID equal prominence to Darwinism, the generally scientifically accepted account of the evolution of species. Most scientists believe that ID is little more than an attempt to smuggle fundamentalist Christianity into science teaching.

States from Ohio to California are considering placing ID it on the curriculum, with President George Bush telling reporters last August that "both sides ought to be properly taught ... so people can understand what the debate is about." ...
Click to expand...
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1735730,00.html

Creationism gains foothold in schools
THE government has cleared the way for a form of creationism to be taught in Britain?s schools as part of the religious syllabus.
Lord Adonis, an education minister, is to issue guidelines within two months for the teaching of ?intelligent design? (ID), a theory being promoted by the religious right in America.

Until now the government has not approved the teaching of the controversial theory, which contradicts Darwinian evolutionary theory, the basis of modern biology.

Adonis said in a parliamentary answer: ?Intelligent design can be explored in religious education as part of developing an understanding of different beliefs.?

He announced that the Department for Education and Skills (DfES) is to hold discussions with the Qualifications and Curriculum Authority, the assessment regulator, and said local advisory councils would decide whether particular schools should teach the theory. ...
Click to expand...
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/newspapers/sunday_times/britain/article1265412.ece

Council of Europe to vote on creationism in schools
PARIS (Reuters) - Europe's main human rights body will vote next week on a resolution opposing the teaching of creationist and intelligent design views in school science classes.


The Council of Europe's Parliamentary Assembly will debate a resolution saying attacks on the theory of evolution were rooted "in forms of religious extremism" and amounted to a dangerous assault on science and human rights.

The resolution, on the agenda for October 4, says European schools should "resist presentation of creationist ideas in any discipline other than religion." It describes the "intelligent design" argument as an updated version of creationism ...
...Creationism says God made the world in six days as depicted in the Bible. Intelligent design argues some life forms are too complex to have evolved according to Charles Darwin's theory and needed an unnamed higher intelligence to develop as they have.

Some conservatives in the United States, both religious and secular, have long opposed the teaching of evolution in public schools but U.S. courts have regularly barred them from teaching what they describe as religious views of creation.

Pressure to teach creationism is weaker in Europe, but has been mounting. An Assembly committee took up the issue because a shadowy Turkish Muslim publishing group has been sending an Islamic creationist book to schools in several countries.

Supporters of intelligent design want it taught in science class alongside evolution. A U.S. court ruled this out in a landmark decision in 2005, dismissing it as "neo-creationism." ...
Click to expand...
http://uk.news.yahoo.com/rtrs/20070925/tsc-uk-europe-creationism-011ccfa_1.html Note the first appearence of any Muslim inspired creationism, on the fouth page of google results for "creationism schools uk" , all the above articles are results from that same search.

See also : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creationism

On Islamic Creationism :
The evolution of daft ideas
Islamic creationism is growing and the movement is now repackaging ideas from reactionary American Christian groups.

... As far as evolution is concerned, the Qur'an provides very little for anti-Darwinists to get their teeth into. It portrays God as the creative force behind the universe but - unlike the Book of Genesis in the Bible - doesn't go into details about the creation process. It says God made "every living thing" from water; that He created humans from clay and that He created them "in stages". In the view of many Muslims, this clearly allows scope for evolutionary interpretations.

Islamic creationism, as an organised movement, is relatively new and small, though well funded and apparently growing in influence. It is centred in Turkey, and particularly around the well-funded Foundation for Scientific Research (BAV), headed by Adnan Oktar. Oktar, who has written dozens of books under the pen-name Harun Yahya, is described on his own website as "a prominent Turkish intellectual" who is "completely devoted to moral values", though Wikipedia is far less complimentary about him.

At first sight, BAV's activities seem to be part of an internal Turkish battle between Islamists and secularists - one which it claims to be winning. "Darwinism is dying in Turkey, thanks to us," according to BAV's director, Tarkan Yavas. But it also has bigger ambitions, claiming to be the creationism centre of the world, and looking ahead to Turkey's possible future membership of the EU. In Yavas's view: "Darwinism breeds immorality, and an immoral Turkey is of no use to the European Union at all."

One of BAV's latest publications, the Atlas of Creation, was sent free of charge to scientists and schools in Britain, Scandinavia, France and Turkey earlier this year. The books are also available free of charge on the internet - which makes them a ready source of material for regurgitation in student essays anywhere in the world.

BAV has frequent contacts with American creationists and, although its books are superficially Islamic, they have been shown to rely extensively on arguments and other material produced by the Institute for Creation Research in California.

This borrowing of ideas from the most reactionary corners of Christianity - and then repackaging them as "Islamic" - is part of a trend that goes back to the 1960s, when Muslims began adopting the Victorian values of the west, at a time when most western societies were rapidly abandoning them.
Click to expand...
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/brian_whitaker/2007/05/the_evolution_of_daft_ideas.html

Honestly, it's getting more and more like the Daily Mail around here(hl2.net) ...sickening.
 
Oh, if everyone did what their forefathers did everyone would be constantly riding out and subjugating someone or the other.
 
SAJ said:
snip
Click to expand...

...Racism?

If you even want to call it that, there's been pretty much one post that's made a clear reference to Islam in mockery. Doesn't seem like knee-jerk racism to me. It does seem like you're getting overly defensive over something that doesn't exist.

That's the funny thing about Islam. People here can spend all day poking fun at Christians and Christianity, but the moment you set your sights on Allah and his sad gaggle of followers - oh no! That's insensitive! That's racism! That's just plain rude and uncalled for!
 
A girl in my psychology class, in the first lesson on evolutionary psychology she said - "can I go outside, I don't believe in evolution I'm a christian"
Teacher responded: "No, learn this or quit the course".
 
I see the UK is going back in time along with us in the US, welcome to the club guys.
 
Absinthe said:
...Racism?

If you even want to call it that, there's been pretty much one post that's made a clear reference to Islam in mockery. Doesn't seem like knee-jerk racism to me. It does seem like you're getting overly defensive over something that doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
I said "stench" of racism, you know ... odour ... smell ... "taint" , if you will.
A bunch of ignorant muppets lining up to blame outsiders of a different hue for changes happening in their culture, when they have (seemingly) no grasp of the issue at hand.
Mob mentality, with a strong current of racism, thats what it looks like from here, but don't take my word for it:

From the article which provoked the responses in this thread
Prof Reiss says the rise of creationism is partly down to the large increase in Muslim pupils in UK schools.


He said: "The number of Muslim students has grown considerably in the last 10 to 20 years and a higher proportion of Muslim families do not accept evolutionary theory compared with Christian families.
Click to expand...
So the impression one gets is that a UK scientist claims that the rise in creationism is muslim led, with no mention of christian fundamentalism whatsoever. A fair assessment so far ?

That piece leads to these responses ... (Added bold emphasis to responses for clarity's sake)
For all of its faults, I thought my country at least wouldn't allow these guys. I am moving as soon as possible now. No future family is gonna be raised and educated by them
Click to expand...
"Prof Reiss says the rise of creationism is partly down to the large increase in Muslim pupils in UK schools." Sorry, but THAT up there, It's really really getting on my nerves.
Click to expand...
Muslims are taking us over, oh well, better get friendly with the new bosses, Praise Allah!
Click to expand...
Where the hell has this come from? I've sensed no kind of Christian revival in this country at all.

Sure, the moral majority are as loud as ever when they bleat in the Daily Mail about cannibalistic paedophile immigrants stealing our NHS due to the influence of video games, but Christianity itself has been a joke for ages. This seems like a bolt from the blue.

Edit: Ugh, I'm tired, should have just read the article properly first -_- Yay for ****ing Islam.
Click to expand...
You people are British, you're not supposed to kowtow to other cultures... you're supposed to make them kowtow to yours like your forefathers did
Click to expand...

All of these responses seem to suggest that they are holding an outside cultural influence responsible for the rise of creationism in schools, that influence being Islam.
All on the say so of an Anglican priest.........................WOAH !!!

Hang on... surely some mistake? Priest? I thought he was a leading scientist?!!

He is a leading scientist, and a priest :
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Professor Michael Reiss (born 1960) is a British bioethicist, educator, Anglican priest and journalist.
Click to expand...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Reiss
But we all know how unreliable wiki can be, so here it is from that first BBC article again:
But Prof Reiss argues that there is an educational value in comparing creationist ideas with scientific theories like Darwin's theory of evolution because they demonstrate how science, unlike religious beliefs, can be tested.

The scientist, who is also a Church of England priest, adds that any teaching should not give the impression that creationism and the theory of evolution are equally valid scientifically.
Click to expand...
So, you have a devout Christian blaming Muslims for a situation without any mention of the sizable fundamentalist Christian influence.
Can you imagine people here agreeing with a quote from an imam blaming christians, in quite the same way?
As I demonstrated at length earlier, the biggest influence pushing for creationism (ID, if you prefer) in British schools is Christian fundamentalist, not Muslim.
Here we are though, blaming "them" for this influence on the say-so of an Anglican priest.

All in all, I would say that "stench of knee-jerk racism" pretty much sums it up.

Absinthe said:
...It does seem like you're getting overly defensive over something that doesn't exist.
Click to expand...
Just what is it that you imagine I am being defensive about?
My race? Religion? Ethnic identity ? Opposition to small-minded bigotry?
 
I have the feeling that you are responding more to some general issue than you are to this thread, SAJ, which is fine, but I have to disagree in this case. People here are outraged about intelligent design being taught in school because we feel it's irrational and potentially dangerous. I won't even get in to how much I'm annoyed by religious fundamentalists feeling that we should 'respect their views' as if they had some sort of realistic basis we could trust.
 
Solaris said:
A girl in my psychology class, in the first lesson on evolutionary psychology she said - "can I go outside, I don't believe in evolution I'm a christian"
Teacher responded: "No, learn this or quit the course".
Click to expand...

Thats exactly what should be done. In. Every. Single. Case.
 
SAJ, half of your quotes from this topic are ambiguous and can apply to ID proponents in general, not Muslims specifically. And of those that made reference to Islam, do you not think it would be more appropriate to chalk this up to misinformation as a result of a misleading article as opposed to "OMG RACISM HL2.NET DAILY MAIL WJAT"?

Just what is it that you imagine I am being defensive about?
My race? Religion? Ethnic identity ? Opposition to small-minded bigotry?
Click to expand...

I imagine you're being defensive about Muslims. So defensive that you've built up a good many people in this topic as closet racists in order to make your outrage seem halfway valid.

And since when were Muslims a race?
 
Of course for some reason whenever we criticise Islam we must at the least say Christianity is worse, otherwise we are bigots, racists and islamaphobes.
 
Solaris said:
Of course for some reason whenever we criticise Islam we must at the least say Christianity is worse, otherwise we are bigots, racists and islamaphobes.
Click to expand...

When you write an article in such a huge medium and then single out one group of people for a perticular problem when they are not the only ones to blame you are doing a huge diservice to your readers. SAJ made a great argument and pointed exactly how biased and irresponsible that article was which seems to be a trend with the BBC and other british media lately. Clearly atomic piggy's motives were simply to point out how insane not teaching evolution was and I agree with him. But a number of people here made it a point to blame muslims for it. I'm not sure if I can blame them though, I tend to blame the BBC and others in the media that continue to push this bullshit on to people that are naive enough to fall for it. They keep playing up this "muslim invasion" and how it is destroying their country and their culture. It does lead to racism and its extremely dangerous, unfortunately a lot of people buy into it.

So yes, when you are doing a story about how teachers are afraid of teaching evolution and you blame one religion for it when others share equal if not greater blame you are an "islamaphobe".
 
No Limit said:
When you write an article in such a huge medium and then single out one group of people for a perticular problem when they are not the only ones to blame you are doing a huge diservice to your readers. SAJ made a great argument and pointed exactly how biased and irresponsible that article was which seems to be a trend with the BBC and other british media lately. Clearly atomic piggy's motives were simply to point out how insane not teaching evolution was and I agree with him. But a number of people here made it a point to blame muslims for it. I'm not sure if I can blame them though, I tend to blame the BBC and others in the media that continue to push this bullshit on to people that are naive enough to fall for it. They keep playing up this "muslim invasion" and how it is destroying their country and their culture. It does lead to racism and its extremely dangerous, unfortunately a lot of people buy into it.

So yes, when you are doing a story about how teachers are afraid of teaching evolution and you blame one religion for it when others share equal if not greater blame you are an "islamaphobe".
Click to expand...
Perhaps in this case SAJ might well be right, but I should be allowed to criticise islam whenever I want without having to also condemn Christianity and the others. My problem is with irrational ideas wherever they are found and that's sort of the point I was trying to communicate.
 
To be fair, offending a religion is not racist, its sacreligious (I think). And there is nothing wrong with sacreligion.
 
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