"Its just a goddam piece of paper"

I say... the presidents are usually a little more clandestine about their disdain for things americans take seriously.
 
no offence but i swear a load of self richeous right winged americans read PNAC, then very quickly.. start to develop a superiority complex.
 
I agree ..to them it's a rallying cry not a cause for concern ..hopeless synchophants if you ask me
 
southernman17 said:
There will always be uncertainty and fear in the world, no matter what society you live in kirovman. But the level and intensity fear experienced by a large amount of populations was worse during the Cold War than it is now. Of course, that's a subjective view (there's always those conspiracy theorists like alex jones and the such out there). But if you ask anyone who's lived through the worst of the Cold War when the risk of M.A.D. was a real threat, they would most likely agree that the world is safer and better now than it was during the Cold War.
Click to expand...

I dunno, look at terrorism today. That makes a lot of Westerners quake in their boots. There's still fear there. That's been consistent and stable for over half a century. Even when your chances of dying in a terrorist attack are less than dying while crossing the road. I don't see people pissing themselves over cars that drive at 30 mph though...

But in the USA the fear is a lot more obvious than other societies. I mean, the 7/7 bombings in the UK, people just got on with their lives. They interviewed people in the USA at the same time, and people were panicking, when the very people who were attacked were not panicking.
It's very easy to control fear-striken people.
 
1.

southernman17 said:
So monkey, you don't want political and economic freedom? Okay...
Click to expand...

He's in Sweden. What?

2.
If this is all such a ridiculous crazy conspiracy theory, how come it's all brazenly stated on the website of the group concerned? You can't really deny what they're saying.
 
2.
If this is all such a ridiculous crazy conspiracy theory, how come it's all brazenly stated on the website of the group concerned? You can't really deny what they're saying.
Click to expand...

you can if your in denial i guess.

that and you possibly have some unshakeable preconcieved idealistic view of the world ' good american's with lotso gun's (boner country for some), vs some random foreign bad guy's ' , team america style :O
 
I wouldn't say that the average American is really that concerned with dying in a terrorist attack kirovman. Maybe New Yorkers are a little more concerned, but certainly, I don;t think think most Americans think that they are going to be blown away in a terrorist attaack. I think more Americans fear a terrorists attack because of the economic repercussions that attack would have on them. Whereas they used to be afraid of being vaporized in a nuclear blast.

America losing its position of world's leading nation is a cause for concern. It will create a power vacuum, thus leading to instability stern. Be careful what you wish for.

Prison Planet post bullshit conspiracy theories on there website all the time sulkdodds, what's the point?
 
/me slams head against the wall

oh for the love of god ..IT"S NOT A THIRD PARTY WEBSITE ..THE SITE IS RUN MAUINTAINED BY PNAC ITSELF ..those are THEIR words no one elses THEY WROTE THOSE STATEMENTS


here, just go back to the endless mind numbing repetition that everything you do is a-ok because after all it's America and america can do no bad

here's a few images to help you push away those evil thoughts from your mind:


ahhhh


inspirational
 
I was referring to your video link stern, not the PNAC's website as conspiracy. Again, when your arguement breaks down, you resort to personal attacks and divert the arguement. Quite infantile in my opinion.
 
personal attack? where? oh you mean the pics? please, I've been called far worse ...besides dont you pride yourself on your unflinching patriotism? ...again the video condenses in a few minutes what would take hours to disseminate ..read the building of americans defenses, come back here report your findings then I'll give you a whole whack of declassified government documents to sift through. At that time we can debate this issue further but at this point there's no use because you fail to see anything except the more alarmist points and ignore all else ...even a casual observer would be alarmed at what's contained within the pnac site
 
Conclusion:

George Bush is a lemon. The reference probably isn't bullcrap, because it doesn't mention scalar waves.

-Angry Lawyer
 
So you personal attack on me is not the same because it's not as bad a some of the personal attacks you've recieved?

American has spent huge sums of money on defense in the past fifty years, no arguing that. However, the video claims that the U.S. use the arms it buys and develops will be used to invade and control the rest of the world.

"even a casual observer would be alarmed at what's contained within the pnac site"

A poor arguement. Some may be concern that America is losing its power, while others view it like you do. And then most probably just don't care. You are guilty of seeing of the alarmist points, just from the other side of the arguement.
 
southernman17 said:
Prison Planet post bullshit conspiracy theories on there website all the time sulkdodds, what's the point?
Click to expand...

Do you not get it? This isn't some bullshit conspiracy website claiming it. This is them themselves. This is like George Bush putting 'by the way, I honestly think America should rule the world' on his personal blog. Prison planet is not in near-control of the US government. Prison planet writes about other people, not about themselves. Prison planet do not count the following amongst them:

New American Century said:
Elliott Abrams Gary Bauer William J. Bennett Jeb Bush

Dick Cheney Eliot A. Cohen Midge Decter Paula Dobriansky Steve Forbes

Aaron Friedberg Francis Fukuyama Frank Gaffney Fred C. Ikle

Donald Kagan Zalmay Khalilzad I. Lewis Libby Norman Podhoretz

Dan Quayle Peter W. Rodman Stephen P. Rosen Henry S. Rowen

Donald Rumsfeld Vin Weber George Weigel Paul Wolfowitz
Click to expand...
 
In response to the original topic post:

Why are we not seeing this recognition by other news outlets? Why am I only seeing the President call my Constitution a piece of paper on the internet?

I honestly want to know. The Constitution is the highest law of the land, something many of us take very seriously and I think any lawyer or person involved in Constitutional issues agrees with me on this.
 
Cooper said:
Why are we not seeing this recognition by other news outlets? Why am I only seeing the President call my Constitution a piece of paper on the internet?
Click to expand...

A good question. One that should also have been asked when most major media outlets gave no coverage of the recent attempted bomb attack in Oklahoma.
 
Interesting.

But I think you understand our dilemma, I have one website claiming that my President said this and yet no one else is. On one hand I don't want to believe it and only have one website report it makes me think its a bunch of hogwash. While on the other hand just because one website reports it doesn't necessarily mean it is completely false either.
 
you see what you do is you email the guy who wrote that up, and ask for confirmation yourself, just because a media outlet backed by billions of dollars doesnt cover a story does not mean it hasnt happened, the article seems honest, infering confirmation from several witnesses, which is why i posted it.. but yes the media doesnt cover everything.. and lets not forget fox especially is pretty much ran by the administration, bush's cousin is a CEO for the network or something.
 
Just to clarify-

The guy who owns the NewAmericanCentury site is in fact this guy:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/aboutus/bio_kristol.asp

So it's not a conspiracy theory, it's just highly questionable.

This also happened a month ago.. and he wrote about it on December the 9th
Click to expand...
Well that doesnt clarify anything, the article was on "capitalhillblue" , and William Kristol didnt write it.
Im not quite sure what youre saying here.
 
ComradeBadger said:
Just to clarify-

The guy who owns the NewAmericanCentury site is in fact this guy:

http://www.weeklystandard.com/aboutus/bio_kristol.asp

So it's not a conspiracy theory, it's just highly questionable.

This also happened a month ago.. and he wrote about it on December the 9th..
Click to expand...




he's chairman of PNAC

Kristol worked for a number of high ranking members of PNAC ..like former vice president Dan quayle and William Bennet, former Secretary of Education under Reagan and head of the National Drug Control Policy under Bush sr who once famously said this in an on air radio interview:

". .....you know, they deal with this hypothesis, that one of the reasons crime is down is that abortion is up. Well—

CALLER: Well, I don't think that statistic is accurate.

BENNETT: Well, I don't think it is either, I don't think it is either, because first of all, there is just too much that you don't know. But I do know that it's true that if you wanted to reduce crime, you could -- if that were your sole purpose, you could abort every black baby in this country, and your crime rate would go down. That would be an impossible, ridiculous, and morally reprehensible thing to do, but your crime rate would go down.



members of Pnac are a who's who of neo-conservative republicans
 
I wasnt in any confusion about Kristol`s identity, its just that Comradebadgerbadgerbadger`s post confuses the capital hill blue article and your posts on pnac.
 
heh ya that's who I was replying to ..I should have quoted him ..from the time I had hit reply to the time I hit submit you had posted ..I tend to leave windows with replies open for long periods of time
 
Without reading the rest of this thread, I must say if bush did indeed say those things... its a pretty despicable thing.

And as for his power as president, if what was said actually happened. I don't like presidents who think they should be constantly revered and admired just because of their seat of power. You must EARN that praise from the citizens after proving your worth and loyalty to them by serving them faithfully.

A president is supposed to be a servant for the American people, not the other way around.
 
southernman17 said:
we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad

America has a vital role in maintaining peace and security in Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.

The "evil" plans of the United States?
Click to expand...

you need to tie a string around your neck!

Europe would be quite peaceful without america! more and more ignorant people are regarding europeans and americanc as one!
You f***head, it's because the US, "westeners" have a bad image in the world!
 
jverne said:
you need to tie a string around your neck!

Europe would be quite peaceful without america! more and more ignorant people are regarding europeans and americanc as one!
You f***head, it's because the US, "westeners" have a bad image in the world!
Click to expand...

Wow. While I may agree with some of the points you bring up, I think you come across as the same kind of person that you are trying to villanise, by using that kind of retort.

It doesn't do Europeans any favours by mouthing off like that.

Unless you were trying to be ironic, in which case ;) ;) :D
 
"Europe would be quite peaceful without america!"

World War 2 and the Cold War???

"You f***head, you need to tie a string around your neck!"

A peaceful people (sarcasm)


Europeans and Americans, as well as Canadians, and Australians, are refered to as "westerners", by the way.
 
Anyway, back to the topic.

For the candidate of the party that goes by a strict interpretation of the constitution, and for one who is such a god-fearing and rightious man, it seems a little odd to me that he would just pull this out.
 
Angry Lawyer said:
Conclusion:

George Bush is a lemon. The reference probably isn't bullcrap, because it doesn't mention scalar waves.

-Angry Lawyer
Click to expand...


well, you know that they say...

when life gives you lemons... choke on them and die... stupid lemon eaters. :hmph:

:cheese:
 
we need to strengthen our ties to democratic allies and to challenge regimes hostile to our interests and values;

we need to promote the cause of political and economic freedom abroad
Click to expand...

"... and if we have to bomb and take over the entire world, so be it, for AMERICA'S interest's come before anyone else's"

I mean, come on, if a paper saying "A 100% fatal virus has been detected and will spread throughout the world in 20 days" was released by the WHO (World Health Organization) you'd be pretty sure it'd be legitimate, wouldn't you ?

[SARCASM]As to all the liberal "dogs" out there. It's bloody obvious that the USA cares about it's citizens because it goes out of it's way to get them what they *want* !

Need Oil ? Invading Iraq is a fine choice, it's got some large oil fields sitting there waiting for the taking.

Need a new foothold for American Corporations so as to bolster the American economy ? Invade Iraq, and pop Mc'Donalds and Starbucks coffee there so they can start the day the American way !

Need to get rid of troublesome terrorists, but is the Iraqi government giving you no chance ? Easy, kick them out with a Illegal Invasion, using phony ideas such as the presence of weapons of mass destruction to get your way in there !

Need a good foothole in the Middle East (to get to Iran) ? Pop more military bases and troops in Iraq, call them a "Peacekeeping force", and keep the troops in there until you need them !

I have never seen a government so dedicated to getting it's citizens what it wants than the good Ol' USA ...[/SARCASM]

In case you haven't got it by now, the American government doesn't CARE about the rest of the world, so long as it gets it's own way ... :rolleyes:
 
Wow...next time you cite something you might want to make sure it has some truth to it and isn't all speculation.
 
"Why do you idiots care about what Bush says!?!?

They are just goddamn words!"

You can probably say something allong those lines at anything [ANYTHING] in the world that you don't want.

"Why do I have to eat broccoli, it's just a goddamn brussel!"

"Why do I have to earn money, it's just goddamn paper!"

"Why do I need a house, it's just a goddamn roof!"

It's horrible immature and childish. The equivalent of saying:

"Yeah well, I don't have to!

*covers ears*

LALALALALALALALALALALAL!"
 
Wow...next time you cite something you might want to make sure it has some truth to it and isn't all speculation.
Click to expand...

Aye, those all might be "conspiracy theory facts", but since most of them *just* happened to be side-effects of the U.S lead invasion, it wouldn't effect George Bush's idea to invade Iraq, eh ? I mean, it's not like he got a large amount of documents before the war speculating the resulting economic and future militarial outcomes of the resulting invasion should he win (which was almost certain). NO country I know prepares for a war by looking at potentional resulting factors that may result as an outcome, and factoring them into their decision. (Except for most countries during World War 2, the Cold War, Vietnam, the first Gulf War, and a "few" others) :upstare:

In others words, yes, those are conspiracy-type theories as to the reason for the war, but there is no way to dispute the fact that they would be factors of debatable importance to the U.S government on whether to go to war of not.;)
 
[disclaimer]I have only skimread this topic[/disclaimer]

I'm no fan of G.W.Bush Jnr. but why has this not appeared in any major news source? BBC, CNN, Al-Jazeera, Anyone, Anyone at all?

I call B*llshit :smoking:
 
I agree with Jandor. This would be headline news on CNN if it was in any way solid enough. If its true, its just another reason why Bush needs a dose of his own medicine... if you know what I mean...
 
I read this article the day it came out and searched for other sources and found none, however the article has been out for quite a while now and no one has discredited it, the whitehouse also has not given any reply discrediting it on their website like they do with all other false articles.... which does give the article merit the man who wrote the article is also a respected veteran reporter from the days of print before the internet became the main source so he's not just some wacko randomly making things up

things to note about the administrations feelings on the constitution they've tried to change it multiple times to suit their needs, they've called it outdated, they've suggested amendments giving them power to override it when needed, they enacted the patriot act when essentially does override it this is not a administration that follows or cares for the constitution problem is it doesn't matter if he said it or not there won't be anything done about it

you all seem rather idealistic in your view of the media look at everything it's skipped and not called this administration on so far not just Fox News I don't consider CNN any better and really the BBC? you mean the news station that had a entire series devoted to why water flows different directions down the drain depending what hemisphere you are in?
 
Lets all be sheep like infant's and call bullshit on any story that doesnt appear in mainstream media outlet's,

Seriously, you must be some kind of sea dwelling creature if you think the media cover everything that has relevance on this planet and then go onto believe 100 % that the stuff they do cover its the undying truth.

The article seems credible.
 
Lets all be sheep like infant's and call bullshit on any story that doesnt appear in mainstream media outlet's
Click to expand...

Or we can call credible on all articles that discredit our competitors.

But if the president of the United States were to actually call the constitution a "goddam piece of paper" that didn't mean anything, don't you think at least some other people or media outlets might have picked up on it more than some political forum room?
 
we aren't saying the article is true all we are saying is theres no obvious reason it wouldn't be true as I said the man who wrote the article is well respected he started his career as a newspaper writer has been in the business 40+ years it's not some random story by some shock journalist or rookie trying to stir things up

what we know is the current president says a lot of dumb and self incriminating things on a daily basis

the current administration does not support the constitution as it is written

the current administration has questioned the constitutions value multiple times in the past

despite this story having 3 witnesses and the story itself being picked up by most internet news sites as well as being the basis of many forum discussions the whitehouse has not discredited the story (something they usually do within 48 hours to kill false stories before they become big)

given that we know these things and the story has 3 witnesses who heard him say it why hasn't the whitehouse denied the claim? telejournalists love to crush stories like this so why haven't they?
 
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