Japanese junta!

[Sulkdodds]

I don't get why everyone is posting these "waah, waah" messages and "you fail" macros. Dog I hope you were just kidding about America and Canada being "better countries." You know I still think it's a bit silly wanting to defend an uninhabitable pile of rocks that one could only barely call an island, but for the reasons involved I think 15357's justified. And in light of how Japan has treated Korea in the past, it's certainly understandable that they'd want to "fight for every milimeter."

Yarr, QFE.

This is a little c*ntish of them, isn't it?

 

[DeusExMachina]

You weren't occupied for 35 years.

Neither were you. You weren't alive. It's in the past.

I'm part filipino. Know what the Japanese did to my people during WW2? They threw babies in the air and caught them with the bayonets on their guns. They killed a few of my great uncles and aunts. But, I do not hold a grudge against them. I wasn't alive. Japan and the Japanese are completely different people now. I can understand you're anger, you hold your history to light. You're history and your land are very important. But, if you honestly think Japan is going to start taking over your land...come on. Even you can't be that cynical and pessimisstic.

 

[Llama]

Ok, this is one of my 'rant' threads, so be warned.

----------------------------------------------------------

There is a tiny island in the east sea (sea of Japan), that seems very insignificant. But its ours. OURS, you ****ing SOBs. Ahem.

Its called Dokdo.

It was taken by the evil imperialist Japanese goverment of the WW1/2 eras, when it annexed the Empire of Korea in 1910.

We claimed it back after 35 years of colonial rule. However, in the 1950 ~ 1960s, there were skirmishes due to their encroachment and killed some japanese people.

However, they are trying to steal it from us. They won't repent.

It has been ours since the 1600s and their main argument is that it wasn't on the list of surrendered terriotories at the end of WWII.

If they keep pressuring us, we must invade. If we manage to land enough troops via civilian cargo ships, we can be in control of Japan in just 8 months, due to our superior Army/ROKMC/Special Forces strenghth.

But anyway, they are tring to steal it from us, another show of their newly coming back of imperialist tendencies.

EVIL.

/rant.

Grow the hell up. It is wortless, pointless, ridiculous to even care that that lump of rock so much as exists. To fight over it is borderline madness. Do the world a favour and throw away your frighteningly patriotic ideals

 

[Zeus]

End thousands of human lives over a piece of rock? Do you have any idea how primitive and stone-agish that sounds to someone whose head is not filled with blind nationalism?

 

[SAJ]

#1 It is a symbol of the sovereghty (sp?) of a nation to have complete control of its territories.

#2. It greatly widens our sea-terriotories.

#3. Yes. After Dokdo, what next? Jejudo? Seoul? The entire peninsula?

#4. Trying to take the island based on the argument that they never 'officialy' surrendered it means that they don't repent for their war crimes. Hate that attitude.

#5. There 'may be' some hydrogenates and natural resources under there.

#6. We've been invaded for about 5000 times since 2333BC that we will NEVER SURRENDER. We'll fight to the death fFor every square milimeter of Korean soil.

Added emphasis.

 

[Solaris]

Added emphasis.

You are joking right?

 

[Laivasse]

Most of the people slagging off Numbers' 'nationalism' probably have no idea of Japan's history. They were responsible for terrible atrocities back in WW2 and were just as imperialist and expansionist as Nazi Germany, except lacking the same competence. Then they got landed with 2 nukes at the end of the war - terrible atrocity, don't get me wrong - which however gave them a victim complex they could use to eclipse their sense of responsibility.

The Tokyo war crimes trial in Japan after the war was a bit of a joke too. The US didn't want to create too much instability in the country because they saw Japan as a block against Communism growing on the continent. As a result Macarthur would not prosecute Emperor Hirohito despite his being commander-in-chief of all of Japan's armed forces at the war's outbreak. Instead, there came to be this half-baked idea that a militarist conspiracy had taken the country in a direction it had never intended. The result of all this: Japan as a country was left confused at the end of it all, not really sure if it was a victim or a perpetrator, and never wholeheartedly accepting its responsibility.

I'm not saying they should never be allowed to put it behind them, but let's try and put it in perspective. Japan is a very right-wing country in most matters, and some say it's undergoing a bit of a right-wing revival. If you've stayed there and seen the black vans full of crazies driving round calling for all foreigners to be ejected, or you've heard of those revised history textbooks which contain nary a nod towards Japan's past misdeeds, then you'll have an idea of that. The prime minister still pays ritual visits to a shrine in which the souls of convicted war criminals are honoured. Imagine if Germany started cheekily grabbing bits of France here and there, saying 'oh come on, it's only a few trees on a hill lol' - it would not be tolerated.

I'm not saying Numbers is right to call for an invasion of Japan, but it's completely understandable that he's as irate as he is.

EDIT: I had a look on wikipedia for some links to post regarding Japanese war crimes, but some of the pictures and descriptions are too horrible for me to post in good faith. Those who are interested can look up 'rape of nanking', 'unit 731' and 'manila massacre' as a starting point.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Japan must cede the land to the Koreans. They've no position, ESPECIALLY not morally, to claim it.

edit: I like how everyone somehow sides with Japan because either they love the anime things or they don't like the style/satirical nature of number's past posts. This is in fact a serious thread and I really hope you fools read up on the situation and understand that past history that has led to this. Japan is totally in the wrong.

 

[Mr Stabby]

The Falklands has a civilian population so it's not really the same.

Since Korea currently controls the island, Korea should continue to do so, it's not worth the political termoil to change things

 

[15357]

Grow the hell up. It is wortless, pointless, ridiculous to even care that that lump of rock so much as exists. To fight over it is borderline madness. Do the world a favour and throw away your frighteningly patriotic ideals

It has a worth that is incalculable. It is much more of worth than even a few lives. Territories are the nation. The nation is much more important.

Neither were you. You weren't alive. It's in the past.

I'm part filipino. Know what the Japanese did to my people during WW2? They threw babies in the air and caught them with the bayonets on their guns. They killed a few of my great uncles and aunts. But, I do not hold a grudge against them. I wasn't alive. Japan and the Japanese are completely different people now. I can understand you're anger, you hold your history to light. You're history and your land are very important. But, if you honestly think Japan is going to start taking over your land...come on. Even you can't be that cynical and pessimisstic.

So what if I wasn't? My ancestors and forefathers lived at that time. Our entire race and heritage lived at that time of oppression. That built up a shitload of hatred for all Koreans, even if they weren't alive. We all learned in school and by our relatives and grandfathers, on television about the oppression, the pillaging of nation monuments, the masscres, and how our peaceful quests for independance were met with bullets and swords.

Our 'contempt' for the japanese is just as the same as the contempt for commies. It's like saying that you don't care that the twin towers were bombed because you weren't in New York at the time.

End thousands of human lives over a piece of rock? Do you have any idea how primitive and stone-agish that sounds to someone whose head is not filled with blind nationalism?

So, can I just come and take your house's lawn? And shoot anyone that enters? Its just a small piece of lawn.

 

[Venmoch]

If they keep pressuring us, we must invade. If we manage to land enough troops via civilian cargo ships, we can be in control of Japan in just 8 months, due to our superior Army/ROKMC/Special Forces strenghth.

That, however would be an excellent idea of how to get on most developed nations s***-list. Not to mention you'd have to invade a good few US Military establishments.

 

[15357]

That, however would be an excellent idea of how to get on most developed nations s***-list. Not to mention you'd have to invade a good few US Military establishments.

We have quite a lot of military camps too, we can just go around them.

 

[Llama]

It has a worth that is incalculable. It is much more of worth than even a few lives. Territories are the nation. The nation is much more important.

Is it ****. "The Nation" is just a way of saying a group of people. Whats better, people dying for people, or nobody dying for people?

 

[Jintor]

Grow the hell up. It is wortless, pointless, ridiculous to even care that that lump of rock so much as exists. To fight over it is borderline madness. Do the world a favour and throw away your frighteningly patriotic ideals

What, exactly, is wrong with patriotism?

 

[Raziaar]

People seem to support others who are willing to die for their cause of (re)acquiring/defending a piece of land, why not the Koreans?

 

[DeusExMachina]

I'm willing to die for an idea, a belief, a cause, even some people.

I'm not willing to die over a piece of land.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

I'm willing to die for an idea, a belief, a cause, even some people.

I'm not willing to die over a piece of land.

It's not over the land. It's the principle that Japan just can't come in and strongarm whatever they please from their neighbors like they have in the past.

EG: If the US were to sell the some small islands south of the Florida keys to another nation and it was a friendly deal, that's great. But what if Cuba just claimed it and then went to go occupy it? **** no it does NOT work that way, I would be ready to defend the US.

 

[JNightshade]

Hmm... by the way I've been brought up, my gut is telling to scream "BRAINWASHED!" But in reality, that's because I've been brainwashed. This is all really just a cultural difference.

 

[Raeven0]

Hmm... by the way I've been brought up, my gut is telling to scream "BRAINWASHED!" But in reality, that's because I've been brainwashed.

You win.

 

[Llama]

What, exactly, is wrong with patriotism?

It gets in the way of rational thinking...it is an emotional connection to something that is not alive.

 

[15357]

It gets in the way of rational thinking...it is an emotional connection to something that is not alive.

No no no, Territories ARE the nation, and the nation is the people. people = alive.

 

[Mr Stabby]

culture is the nation, not the territory

 

[DeusExMachina]

It's not over the land. It's the principle that Japan just can't come in and strongarm whatever they please from their neighbors like they have in the past.

EG: If the US were to sell the some small islands south of the Florida keys to another nation and it was a friendly deal, that's great. But what if Cuba just claimed it and then went to go occupy it? **** no it does NOT work that way, I would be ready to defend the US.

Well seeing as how Cuba would never do that...I think that point is null. Plus, I'm not going to kill Cubans or invade Cuba because they decided take a small island we happen to own. You talk it out. If talks don't work out, then you send in the small force to take care of it. But Numbers here seems to be suggesting that they should invade Japan. And of course, his somewhat blind nationalism is a big turn off to his cause.

 

[Jintor]

Well, seeing as how South Korea would never do that... I think that point is null. I doubt the entirity of South Korea would be so stupid as to launch immediantly into genocidal warfare without at least attempting negotiations first. The fact that most of asia is not right now a smoking pile of debris is a testement to that fact. And I don't think it's blind nationalism. Although, admittedly, I've never seen him admit that his country is wrong...

 

[Llama]

No no no, Territories ARE the nation, and the nation is the people. people = alive.

Um, no, thats not a physical connection. Are these territories made of living people? I think not

I can understand why you dont like the Japanese, but lives for land isnt worth it. Go to the UN, solve it peacefully...but for heavens sake dont fight using flesh and blood.
The pen is mightier than the sword

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Um, no, thats not a physical connection. Are these territories made of living people? I think not

I can understand why you dont like the Japanese, but lives for land isnt worth it. Go to the UN, solve it peacefully...but for heavens sake dont fight using flesh and blood.
The pen is mightier than the sword

You do realize what the UN threatens to do to aggressive nations, right? That's just a lengthier process of military threats that satisfies 'the rest of the world' rather than doing things unilatiraly.

 

[Llama]

Yep, but it would help to make Japan bow to pressure...and if not, then everyone would know where they stand in the conflict.
I was thinking more along the lines of Economic sanctions

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Yep, but it would help to make Japan bow to pressure...and if not, then everyone would know where they stand in the conflict.
I was thinking more along the lines of Economic sanctions

I think Japan would bow to direct Korean threat before it'd bow to UN pressure. Frankly if I were a world leader intent on doing something and the UN waved some 'condemnation resolutions' at me and did some rambling in it's NYC HQ I wouldn't really care. It's not effective. You see this with Iran.

"STOP IRAN. YOU MAY NOT PRODUCE NUKES."
"PRETTY PLEASE."
"PLEASE DONT"
"IF YOU DONT STOP WE WILL HAVE TO THREATEN TO BEGIN THE HEARINGS ON DECIDING IF WE SHOULD THREATEN TO POSSIBLY USE FORCE"
"THAT'S IT. WE SAY YOU ARE IN THE WRONG. ITS OFFICIALLY ON PAPER, NOW PLEASE STOP"
"PRETTY PLEASE WITH A CHERRY ON TOP?"


It's a joke to be honest. Failure on military issues, and a failure on humanitarian issues.

 

[Jintor]

So is the UN like the old League of Nations yet?

 

[15357]

Um, no, thats not a physical connection. Are these territories made of living people? I think not

I can understand why you dont like the Japanese, but lives for land isnt worth it. Go to the UN, solve it peacefully...but for heavens sake dont fight using flesh and blood.
The pen is mightier than the sword

The land, it is a living symbol of the nation.

culture is the nation, not the territory

I suppose the gypsys are a nation because they have culture?

What makes a nation a nation is defined by the territories, and is made up of the people.



Oh I need more debating skills, I'm used to just ranting.

*goes and gets Crystal Sword, +5 Debate*

 

[Lemonking]

Neither were you. You weren't alive. It's in the past.

I'm part filipino. Know what the Japanese did to my people during WW2? They threw babies in the air and caught them with the bayonets on their guns. They killed a few of my great uncles and aunts. But, I do not hold a grudge against them. I wasn't alive. Japan and the Japanese are completely different people now. I can understand you're anger, you hold your history to light. You're history and your land are very important. But, if you honestly think Japan is going to start taking over your land...come on. Even you can't be that cynical and pessimisstic.

well said.

 

[Sulkdodds]

Frankly, I'd just deploy a load of troops and an aircraft carrier to the island.

If Japan (who, let's make no mistake, are in the wrong on this issue) finds this island important enough to start a war on, they sink to a lower moral ground than they are on already, and start a stupid fight. I really doubt they would actually do anything if you guys just enforced your defences. Judging by your governmen'ts a-crazy nationalism, this is exactly what they'll do.

As far as I can see Japan is merely flexing its muscles and trying to assert power over the Koreans in a move motivated by the long-standing emnity between the two countries. It's like 'heh, let's humiliate the Koreans by getting them to give us their land!'