Metro 2033 is gonna be pretty

Tollbooth Willie

The Freeman
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
17,556
Reaction score
820
350m0wx.jpg


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-tech-interview-metro-2033?page=2

The interview is too long to post here, but here's part of it.

Digital Foundry: You've previously worked on S.T.A.L.K.E.R., noted for its own tech. So, what exactly is the relationship between the 4A engine and your previous work in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.?

Oles Shishkovstov: There's no relationship. Back when I was working as lead programmer and technology architect on S.T.A.L.K.E.R. it became apparent that many architectural decisions were great for the time when it was designed, but they just don't scale to the present day.

The major obstacles to the future of the S.T.A.L.K.E.R. engine were its inherent inability to be multi-threaded, the weak and error-prone networking model, and simply awful resource and memory management, which prohibited any kind of streaming or simply keeping the working set small enough for "next-gen" consoles.

Another thing which really worried me was the text-based scripting. Working on S.T.A.L.K.E.R. it became clear that designers/scriptwriters want more and more control, and when they got it they were lost and needed to think like programmers, but they weren't programmers! That contributed a lot to the original delays with S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

So I started a personal project to establish the future architecture and to explore the possibilities of the design. The project evolved quite well and although it wasn't functional as a game - not even as a demo, it didn't have any rendering engine back then - it provided me with clear vision on what to do next.

When 4A started as an independent studio this work became a foundation of the future engine. Because of the tight timescale we've opted to use a lot of middleware to get things going quickly. We've selected PhysX for physics, PathEngine for AI navigation, LUA as a primary development file format, not a scripting engine, for easy SVN merging, RakNet for physical network layer, FaceFX for facial animation, OGG Vorbis for sound format, and many other small things like compression libraries, etc.

The rendering was hooked up in about three weeks - it's easy to do when you work with deferred shading - although it was far from being optimal or feature-rich.
'Tech Interview: Metro 2033' Screenshot 1

Digital Foundry: So, to be clear, there's no shared code whatsoever between the 4A and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. X-Ray engines?

Oles Shishkovstov: When the philosophies of the engines are so radically different it is nearly impossible to share the code. For example, we don't use basic things such as C++ standard template library and S.T.A.L.K.E.R. has every second line of code calling some type of STL method. Even the gameplay code in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. was mostly using an update/poll model, while we use a more signal-based model.

So, the final answer is "no", we do not have shared code with X-Ray, nor would it be possible to do so.

Digital Foundry: But if you had just done a straight port of the X-Ray engine, how would it have worked out on PS3 and 360?

Oles Shishkovstov: That would be extremely difficult. A straight port will not fit into memory even without all the textures, all the sounds and all the geometry. And then it will work at around one to three frames per second. But that doesn't matter because without textures and geometry, you cannot see those frames! That's my personal opinion, but it would probably be wise for GSC to wait for another generation of consoles.

Digital Foundry: There are obviously a lot of state-of-the-art effects and techniques in play in Metro 2033, but going to the core of 4A, what are the most basic design philosophies in the engine? Where do you start when it comes to making a cross-format console/PC engine?

Oles Shishkovstov: The primary focuses are the multi-threading model, memory and resource management and, finally, networking.

The most interesting/non traditional thing about our implementation of multi-threading is that we don't have dedicated threads for processing some specific tasks in-game with the exception of PhysX thread.

All our threads are basic workers. We use task-model but without any pre-conditioning or pre/post-synchronising. Basically all tasks can execute in parallel without any locks from the point when they are spawned. There are no inter-dependencies for tasks. It looks like a tree of tasks, which start from more heavyweight ones at the beginning of the frame to make the system self-balanced.

There are some sync-points between sub-systems. For example, between PhysX and the game, or between the game and renderer. But they can be crossed over by other tasks, so no thread is idle. The last time I measured the statistics, we were running approximately 3,000 tasks per 30ms frame on Xbox 360 for CPU-intensive scenes with all HW threads at 100 per cent load.

The PS3 is not that different by the way. We use "fibres" to "emulate" a six-thread CPU, and then each task can spawn a SPURS (SPU) job and switch to another fibre. This is a kind of PPU off-loading, which is transparent to the system. The end result of this beautiful, albeit somewhat restricting, model is that we have perfectly linear scaling up to the hardware deficiency limits.
'Tech Interview: Metro 2033' Screenshot 6

As for memory and resource management, we don't use plain old C++ pointers in most of the code, we use reference-counted strong and weak pointers. With a bit of atomic operations and memory barriers here and there they become a very robust basic tool for multi-threaded programming.

That sounds a bit inefficient, but it isn't. We've measured at most 2.5 times difference in hand-crafted scenarios on PS3-PPU/360 CPU. If all that "inefficiency" contributes to at least 0.1 per cent performance loss on the whole game, I'll owe you a beer!

Then comes memory management. You know, it's always custom-made - lots of different pools (to either limit the subsystems or reduce lock-contention), lots of different allocation strategies for different kinds of data, that's boring. The major memory consumers are paid the most attention though. Geometric data is garbage-collected with relocation, for example, but the more important things are the raw stats.

On the shipping 360 version we have around 1GB of OGG-compressed sound and almost 2GB of lossless compressed DXT textures. That clearly doesn't fit into console memory. We went on the route to stream these resources from DVD, up to the extreme that we don't preload anything, not even the basic sounds like footsteps or weapon sounds. We've done a lot of work to compensate for DVD-seek latency, so the player should never notice it. That was the hard part.

As for the networking, that's a long story, but because Metro 2033 is focused on a story-driven single-player experience, I'll omit it here!

On 360/PC differences:

Digital Foundry: Does PC hardware offer up any additional bonuses in Metro 2033 aside from higher frame-rates and resolutions?

Oles Shishkovstov: Yes and no. When you have more performance on the table, you can either do nothing as you say, and as most direct console ports do, or you add the features. Because our platforms got equal attention, we took the second route.

Naturally most of the features are graphics related, but not all. The internal PhysX tick-rate was doubled on PC resulting in more precise collision detection and joint behavior. We "render" almost twice the number of sounds (all with wave-tracing) compared to consoles. That's just a few examples, so that you can see that not only graphics gets a boost. On the graphics side, here's a partial list:

* Most of the textures are 2048^2 (consoles use 1024^2).
* The shadow-map resolution is up to 9.43 Mpix.
* The shadow filtering is much, much better.
* The parallax mapping is enabled on all surfaces, some with occlusion-mapping (optional).
* We've utilised a lot of "true" volumetric stuff, which is very important in dusty environments.
* From DX10 upwards we use correct "local motion blur", sometimes called "object blur".
* The light-material response is nearly "physically-correct" on the PC on higher quality presets.
* The ambient occlusion is greatly improved (especially on higher-quality presets).
* Sub-surface scattering makes a lot of difference on human faces, hands, etc.
* The geometric detail is somewhat better, because of different LOD selection, not even counting DX11 tessellation.
* We are considering enabling global illumination (as an option) which really enhances the lighting model. However, that comes with some performance hit, because of literally tens of thousands of secondary light sources.
 
I dunno, looks pretty desolate and ugly. Maybe some foliage, grass, flowers...might pretty the place up.
 
Yeah its pretty barren as far as setting goes, but there are some DAMN good looking screens/videos showing off some nice scenery up.
 
I couldn't give a **** about graphics...is it fun?
 
If you've ever played S.T.A.L.K.E.R. its basically that but more linear, bullets for money, management of resources like oxygen, time, supplies, setting traps for mutants, and from what I hear no pause menu. Many other things that are supposed to make the game really hard. So yeah should be damn fun. Its basically Hardcore: The Game: Fingerless Glove Edition.

There's an article floating around detailing all these things somewhere. Will post if I find it.
 
Fact is, this kind of setting is way overused. I'm getting tired of dark, gritty, post atomic games.
 
If you've ever played S.T.A.L.K.E.R. its basically that but more linear, bullets for money, management of resources like oxygen, time, supplies, setting traps for mutants, and from what I hear no pause menu. Many other things that are supposed to make the game really hard. So yeah should be damn fun. Its basically Hardcore: The Game: Fingerless Glove Edition.

There's an article floating around detailing all these things somewhere. Will post if I find it.

He has a gas mask; why the hell does he need oxygen for?

Granted, oxygen is much much better than filtered-but-still-radioactive-air.

Also, no pause menu? Are you saying there is no Menu screen, or that the game doesn't stop whilst in the menu screen?
 
I don't like hard games.

Is that a Borderlands avatar you got there? If so, then go f...ishing...with...yourself.


If what wille says it's true than i just might be a good game, stalker was nice, one of the better modern games i've played, but the problem was that some parts were undeveloped (not surprised considering the bad luck it had) and the major factor was that my computer couldn't run it in an enjoyable frame rate.
I should give it a chance once more if i can get a better card and additional mods.

For what it's worth...eastern games are conceptually superior but they fall short on the technical side.
 
He has a gas mask; why the hell does he need oxygen for?

Granted, oxygen is much much better than filtered-but-still-radioactive-air.

Also, no pause menu? Are you saying there is no Menu screen, or that the game doesn't stop whilst in the menu screen?

Gas masks don't work for extended periods of time, and I can assume since most of the game takes place underground there won't be much oxygen.

I believe it'll be like Demon's Souls. There's a menu screen, but you better make sure nothing is waiting to pounce on you.

I don't like hard games.

go back to halo or something then
 
I don't like hard games.

Wait a minute. You don't like a challenge? Or you don't like frustratingly difficult games? While I can agree to some extent that frustrating games aren't necessarily fun - they can be - if you just keep trying, you'll find it even more rewarding when you can hand the computer its ass.

But if you don't like a challenge, you should just play with baby toys.

I like games that start fairly challenging, and peak at very difficult. Basically, so that after I completely get the hang of the game, it's still challenging. I want to be successful >50% of the time.

One thing I really hate, is when the computer gives it to you. Like when the game lets you win because you keep loosing. Come up against a challenging opponent that defeats you, so the AI difficulty is reduced and the computer stands there and lets you kick its ass. **** that.
 
very tech heavy interview.

on a side note they should have had this guy do the English localization for Stalker, he seems to have a much better grasp at the English language than whoever the **** actually did the text in game.
 
He has a gas mask; why the hell does he need oxygen for?

Granted, oxygen is much much better than filtered-but-still-radioactive-air.

Also, no pause menu? Are you saying there is no Menu screen, or that the game doesn't stop whilst in the menu screen?
You have a timer you keep on your wrist that can be set to a maximum of 15 minutes. The air above ground is so nasty and putrid that the few humans who go above ground are forced to carry oxygen tanks with them to stay alive. There is no HUD, so elements like how much time you have left before you must return below ground, ammo, and health must be kept in check constantly.
 
You have a timer you keep on your wrist that can be set to a maximum of 15 minutes. The air above ground is so nasty and putrid that the few humans who go above ground are forced to carry oxygen tanks with them to stay alive. There is no HUD, so elements like how much time you have left before you must return below ground, ammo, and health must be kept in check constantly.

that's actually really awesome...

how can this not be the new XRay engine?? it looks so much like it! ah well...i'm still trying to finish the first stalker.....i get distracted easily by new games and never finish the ones i'm in the middle of (Super Mario Galaxy, STALKER, Borderlands, Fallout 3, Assassins Creed, etc.)
 
Naturally most of the features are graphics related, but not all. The internal PhysX tick-rate was doubled on PC resulting in more precise collision detection and joint behavior. We "render" almost twice the number of sounds (all with wave-tracing) compared to consoles. That's just a few examples, so that you can see that not only graphics gets a boost. On the graphics side, here's a partial list:

* Most of the textures are 2048^2 (consoles use 1024^2).
* The shadow-map resolution is up to 9.43 Mpix.
* The shadow filtering is much, much better.
* The parallax mapping is enabled on all surfaces, some with occlusion-mapping (optional).
* We've utilised a lot of "true" volumetric stuff, which is very important in dusty environments.
* From DX10 upwards we use correct "local motion blur", sometimes called "object blur".
* The light-material response is nearly "physically-correct" on the PC on higher quality presets.
* The ambient occlusion is greatly improved (especially on higher-quality presets).
* Sub-surface scattering makes a lot of difference on human faces, hands, etc.
* The geometric detail is somewhat better, because of different LOD selection, not even counting DX11 tessellation.
* We are considering enabling global illumination (as an option) which really enhances the lighting model. However, that comes with some performance hit, because of literally tens of thousands of secondary light sources.
Major PC enhancements, **** year :D

You have a timer you keep on your wrist that can be set to a maximum of 15 minutes. The air above ground is so nasty and putrid that the few humans who go above ground are forced to carry oxygen tanks with them to stay alive. There is no HUD, so elements like how much time you have left before you must return below ground, ammo, and health must be kept in check constantly.

I love this kinda thing. A game built around this sort of mechanic can be much more interesting. I also like games where you need food and water (another set of timers), to keep you from being sedentary (must keep moving!), fighting cheesy/cowardly, or [in games that support 'leveling up' systems] training in one place to gain an advantage.
 
Another thing about the game is the currency system. Ammunition is separated into two groups. 'Dirty bullets' which act as your basic ammunition for weapons and special bullets made before the world got overrun by mutants and demons that can be used as improved firepower against creatures, or as currency for buying supplies and shit.
 
I've seen a preview video or two for this game and I, for one, am looking forward to it.
 
Looks great, nice read too. Makes me want a new damn pc though.
 
Most of the textures are 2k? Game is going to run like shit on most pcs on high texture settings.

Also, I lol'd at the bb gun in the screenshot. The barrel of that pathetic thing is like half the diameter of his pinky.
 
Most of the textures are 2k? Game is going to run like shit on most pcs on high texture settings.

Also, I lol'd at the bb gun in the screenshot. The barrel of that pathetic thing is like half the diameter of his pinky.

I dont know whats up with all these Euro developers thinking I have the freaking Cybertron rig, first Crysis and Stalker(poorly optimized, it didnt look great) now a feast for the eyes that will be harsh
 
Should be able to at least get 30 fps or something with a $100 video card. Maybe. Game won't be out for a while.

Anyway, I'd rather have the option there, so when I play the game a couple years from now it can still look sharp.
 
Looks sweet, my rig is getting very outdated now and I won't be able to upgrade it for some time due to other life priorities :( It does sound very interesting though, lets hope they pull it off.
 
The barrel is the one above that. :p

Thats the one I'm talking about. Look at how thick his thumb is, its like double the diameter of the barrel. His pinky is probably 3/4ths as thick as his thumb, so the inside of the barrel is still smaller than his pinky.
 
Also, I lol'd at the bb gun in the screenshot. The barrel of that pathetic thing is like half the diameter of his pinky.
Looks alright to me.

I'm not going to try to guess the ammo fired from that rifle, but for example, a 9x19mm parabellum Bullet's diameter is 0.356 in
 
Just pre-ordered this for my 360 through the 0.1 Euro deal from GameStop over here, yay.
 
Back
Top