NK Admitts to Having Nukes

[KoreBolteR]

they have got them, but i think they might be making this statement to basically show off thier strengths. and to tell america to f*ck off.. basically. personally i dont think america and allies should invade, lets not follow the same footsteps as iraq..

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

they have got them, but i think they might be making this statement to basically show off thier strengths. and to tell america to f*ck off.. basically. personally i dont think america and allies should invade, lets not follow the same footsteps as iraq..

First off let me be clear that I don't think NK should be invaded.

But what if he Nukes Seoul? All those people gone. Can you go back in time and do the right thing? Nope.

What if all the intelligence said you had a 70% chance of capturing or destroying his WMD's with a raid. Would you do it?

 

[bliink]

What if all the intelligence said you had a 70% chance of capturing or destroying his WMD's with a raid. Would you do it?

Are you saying that theres a 30% chance the raid would fail and he'd still have his nukes? because thats a pretty big risk.

 

[CptStern]

"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." - Hyman Rickover US Navy Admiral

"The most disadvantageous peace is better than the most just war." - Desiderius Erasmus





fits some of us to a "t":



"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
- George Orwell

 

[Sgt_Shellback]

Are you saying that theres a 30% chance the raid would fail and he'd still have his nukes? because thats a pretty big risk.

Yep that was what I was thinking when I came up with the challenge.

If you fail than he will most assuredly launch because he feels attacked even though it was a raid.

Plus you probably killed off your raid team and some folks in and around the weapons...

Flip side to this is that if you didn't do anything he could Nuke Seoul or Tokyo...

What would you do?

Stern, I think, says he'd wait to see what happens.

 

[bliink]

Yep that was what I was thinking when I came up with the challenge.

If you fail than he will most assuredly launch because he feels attacked even though it was a raid.

Plus you probably killed off your raid team and some folks in and around the weapons...

Flip side to this is that if you didn't do anything he could Nuke Seoul or Tokyo...

What would you do?

Stern, I think, says he'd wait to see what happens.

I wouldn't risk him firing a nuke unless I was 99% sure I could stop him or pretty sure he was about to use them anyway.

 

[K e r b e r o s]

Why not ... Nuke his nukes? I mean, seriously, just get in close, and plant or drop a bomb. You could blame it on his own cache' for being faulty and ill-managed for the detonation scene.

 

[Tr0n]

Why not ... Nuke his nukes? I mean, seriously, just get in close, and plant or drop a bomb. You could blame it on his own cache' for being faulty and ill-managed for the detonation scene.

Would be to obvious also there is a chance that our nukes could kill thousands of innocent civilians.

Only logical things to do is what we have been discussing...ether precision airstrikes with smart bombs/dumb bombs or doing it from the ground via spec ops or some type of ground force.

 

[burner69]

Why not ... Nuke his nukes? I mean, seriously, just get in close, and plant or drop a bomb. You could blame it on his own cache' for being faulty and ill-managed for the detonation scene.

Nukes just dont go off by accident. It'd be blatently obvious.

Also they'd be underground, and unlikely to be particularly damaged by the blast, IF we identified where they were, and IF it wasn't anywhere near a civilian population.

I think the best thing to do is say "OK, you've got nukes, we'll leave you alone if you leave us alone." There's little more you can do, unless you want to risk nukes being slung about.

 

[destrukt]

Why not ... Nuke his nukes? I mean, seriously, just get in close, and plant or drop a bomb. You could blame it on his own cache' for being faulty and ill-managed for the detonation scene.

missile [nuclear] silos are usually spaced far enough apart that a single nuke would not take out more than 2. also, on guard is usually almost a brigade strength [1000 or so] of men and the defense for each silo is enough to stop most convential bombs ..

 

[Lemonking]

Do u gys think a war is gonna break out? I hope not doesnt this Kim guy see what responseblity{I know I spelled it wrong} he now has?

 

[burner69]

Do u gys think a war is gonna break out? I hope not doesnt this Kim guy see what responseblity{I know I spelled it wrong} he now has?

I doubt it, but there's always a chance. Nothing to lose sleep over.

This Kim guy believes that his country was next to be invaded by the coalition and so he is announcing his weapons to deter them. At least that's what he's saying. He might have other motives but having a nuclear weapon or two is a very good detterrant against people wanting to invade your country.

 

[seinfeldrules]

Do u gys think a war is gonna break out?

Not in the foreseeable future of a year or two.

 

[DEATH eVADER]

Things will go boiling point in 2008, I can fore-see it

 

[CptStern]

I cant believe so many of you think war is inevitable ..war is not the answer ...there's no proof NK will use nukes anymore than the US would ..well that's a bad example. The US is NOT the world's police, you cant expect to walk in there like you did in iraq. You have no right to decide the fate of nations. You'd think after 9/11 and iraq you'd have learned your lesson. NK will make vietnam look like desert storm

 

[Raziaar]

I cant believe so many of you think war is inevitable ..war is not the answer ...there's no proof NK will use nukes anymore than the US would ..well that's a bad example. The US is NOT the world's police, you cant expect to walk in there like you did in iraq. You have no right to decide the fate of nations. You'd think after 9/11 an iraq you'd have learned your lesson. NK will make vietnam look like desert storm

Well, while I agree with you partly, I don't about the whole 'learned your lesson' thing.

But, then again, you don't think war is ever the answer. Probably not even in the case of the first world wars. :cheese:

 

[CptStern]

no, the first world war I didnt completely agree with ...old world imperialism brought that about

ww2 is a different matter ..I agree in part if not the whole war

I believe in armed resistence to oppression when necessary ..but yes I do believe war is rarely the answer

 

[Bodacious]

"The more you sweat in peace, the less you bleed in war." - Hyman Rickover US Navy Admiral

"The most disadvantageous peace is better than the most just war." - Desiderius Erasmus

fits some of us to a "t":

"War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength."
- George Orwell

So why is it that people speak out againt the missile defense system? So what if it is a money pit and doesn't work that well right now, it is all we have. I would rather have a tiny bit of security than no security at all.

 

[CptStern]

security at the cost of others ...countless iraqis paid the price for you to feel "secure" ..well, at least that's the reason they gave you

 

[mortiz]

Firstly America doesn't have the troops nor the money to launch a war on North Korea for a good few years. The U.S. troops are already stretched after Iraq and numerous other international operations.

Secondly, unless completely insane, I don't think many leaders have the guts to "launch the first nuke" (though it's scary to think Kim might be one of those leaders who have), North Korea would have to do something pretty bad other than posturing to draw a military response out of the U.S.A..

 

[Zorrander001]

security at the cost of others ...countless iraqis paid the price for you to feel "secure" ..well, at least that's the reason they gave you

First of all, we paid quit a cost ourselves.

Second, the Iraqis couldn't be saved. if we didn't invade and they weren't killed by us, they would have been killed by Saddam. Not the same ones, but the same amount. The point is they died for the liberty of their country rather than for no reason at all at the hands of a tyrant.

And by removing Saddam we actually saved lives because although we killed many civies, we saved many more that would have been killed by saddam in the coming years.


The point is yes people died, but you only pretend to care. It's obvious by your posts and the way you harp on one or two terrible instances that you only use the statistics to push your agenda here on this gaming forum, it's quit sad.

 

[CptStern]

First of all, we paid quit a cost ourselves.

peanuts compared to the civilians killed in iraq ..btw how many american civilians died in iraq?

Second, the Iraqis couldn't be saved. if we didn't invade and they weren't killed by us, they would have been killed by Saddam.

do realise how crazy that sounds ...oh and the US directly or indirectly killed more iraqis than saddam ever did

Not the same ones, but the same amount. The point is they died for the liberty of their country rather than for no reason at all at the hands of a tyrant.

bull, they died because some fatcats in washington had greed in their little black hearts

And by removing Saddam we actually saved lives because although we killed many civies, we saved many more that would have been killed by saddam in the coming years.

ah but you installed someone who's just as bad given time and power

The point is yes people died, but you only pretend to care. It's obvious by your posts and the way you harp on one or two terrible instances that you only use the statistics to push your agenda here on this gaming forum, it's quit sad.

The facts speak for themselves ..this was no "humanitarian" mission ..from day one the evidence points in the other direction. Oh and as for the stats ..NO ONE has been able to explain why the US purposefully engineered a set circumstances that led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children ..sorry but that's far worse than anything saddam ever did ..I have proved beyond a shadow of a doubt that that was their intention ..if you'd like a stab at disproving it, then by all means ..go ahead

 

[burner69]

The point is yes people died, but you only pretend to care. It's obvious by your posts and the way you harp on one or two terrible instances that you only use the statistics to push your agenda here on this gaming forum, it's quit sad.

Dam you Stern. Obviously because you use facts to push your agenda you don't really care about anybody. Using statistics on a gaming forum, tut tut Stern, tut tut.

 

[CptStern]

Dam you Stern. Obviously because you use facts to push your agenda you don't really care about anybody. Using statistics on a gaming forum, tut tut Stern, tut tut.

I'm a heartless bastard who only says what he says so that I can be popular on online forums!!!!

 

[Zorrander001]

It is clear that sterns statistics serve only to push his agenda. He never discusses the issue in a positive or open way, all he does is say "see look, many people dies because of us sanctions. US=bad!" and thats it. This seems to be his only motivation, to spread hate of the US.

 

[KoreBolteR]

Dam you Stern. Obviously because you use facts to push your agenda you don't really care about anybody. Using statistics on a gaming forum, tut tut Stern, tut tut.

facts, and the media have very different meaning eh ?
arghh the media how th................. (stops)

i say that too often, sorry cpt. hehe. :E

 

[burner69]

It is clear that sterns statistics serve only to push his agenda. He never discusses the issue in a positive or open way, all he does is say "see look, many people dies because of us sanctions. US=bad!" and thats it. This seems to be his only motivation, to spread hate of the US.

Are you saying that 500'000 people weren't killed?

Saying that someones argument is null and void because they're using facts is a statement that needs a bit of ribbing - and is arguably equally as unconstructive as my last comment.

Rather than laying into people who critisize the US, debate against it.

 

[CptStern]

It is clear that sterns statistics serve only to push his agenda. He never discusses the issue in a positive or open way, all he does is say "see look, many people dies because of us sanctions. US=bad!" and thats it. This seems to be his only motivation, to spread hate of the US.

seriously what possible "positive" things can 14 years of war in iraq possibly have? there's no freakin electricity in huge areas of iraq, going to the market is now a life-threatening event, thousands have died and thousands will continue to die, infant mortality has jumped 4 times ..during the sanctions 67% of iraqis lived off of Saddam rations program ...guess what? now the iraq is occupied 100% of iraqis now need this program to survive ..for what? so that the US can have a foothold in the middle east ..damn some of you people are so friggin brainwashed it's annoying ...you know it's your own fault ..there's ton of material online that questions the US' justifications every single step of the way ..but I guess some of you cant bear to think your country does something wrong ..let's all pretend evertything is kosher over there, that no one is dying on a daily basis and no one wants you there ..yup lets turn a blind eye to what the people of iraq want ..as long as americans can pat themselves on the back out of a false sense of security ...mark my words ...9/11 will loolk like a cake walk next to what will happen to americans in retrubution for what happened in iraq

This seems to be his only motivation, to spread hate of the US

it's funny how no one outside of the US has ever accused me of that

getting really tired of constantly having to answer to charges that I'm anti-american ..such utter bullshit scapegoatting "if you're not with us you're against us"

 

[Zorrander001]

Are you saying that 500'000 people weren't killed?

Of course not. I don't know for sure, but I'm willing to take the word of sterns sources and accept that many people died because of sanctions. What i'm objecting to is sterns use of the facts. He doesn't introduce them into a debate in order to reach some kind of productive outcome. Every time he brings this stat up, he does only to proclaim the US is bad, and offers no kind of contructive conversation.

He doesn't present any clear argument, he just keeps saying over and over how terrible the US is. He is here to smear hate, that is all.

Saying that someones argument is null and void because they're using facts is a statement that needs a bit of ribbing

I never said that his argument was null and void. I never said that the reason for anything was that because he uses facts. I'll give you the benefit of my doubt and assume you are capable of understanding ideas portrayed through written word, and this was simply a mistake. To correct you, what I said was that he is useless because all he does is use the worst statistics he can find and them harp on them to show how bad the US is. He has no clear argument to begin with, other than the US is bad.

Look at his poll, what is the fist country to appear at the top of the list? He says it's in fun and not serious, bo back and count how many posts in the same thread that he used to try to demonstrate that the US is evil. The man is sick.

 

[burner69]

So you're saying he should debate against himself?

No, in a debate you put across your opinion, sprinkled with some stats, and it's up to people to disagree with it to fill in the gaps.

Stern believes that the US has an evil government, I have a massive problem with it too, but that's based on facts, stats and reports we've read. We're not sick, we're basing an opinion from fact.

If you have a problem with the US government being critisized I suggest you start debating, rather than weining about it.

 

[Zorrander001]

seriously what possible "positive" things can 14 years of war in iraq possibly have? there's no freakin electricity in huge areas of iraq, going to the market is now a life-threatening event, thousands have died and thousands will continue to die, infant mortality has jumped 4 times ..during the sanctions 67% of iraqis lived off of Saddam rations program ...guess what? now the iraq is occupied 100% of iraqis now need this program to survive ..for what? so that the US can have a foothold in the middle east ..damn some of you people are so friggin brainwashed it's annoying ...you know it's your own fault ..there's ton of material online that questions the US' justifications every single step of the way ..but I guess some of you cant bear to think your country does something wrong ..let's all pretend evertything is kosher over there, that no one is dying on a daily basis and no one wants you there ..yup lets turn a blind eye to what the people of iraq want ..as long as americans can pat themselves on the back out of a false sense of security ...mark my words ...9/11 will loolk like a cake walk next to what will happen to americans in retrubution for what happened in iraq

The typical stern post. Nothing contructive offered, just ranting on how the US sucks big ones. To answer your question burner, I have no problem debating with a reasonable person, but do you really think that there is any point in trying to conduct a productive converstation with someone like this? It will be something like:

me: stern, perhaps the sanctions were needed. Lets discuss this.
stern: 50000000000 people dies, the US is evil.
me: stern, perhaps the war was justified despite no major WMDs found. Have you considered this?
stern: thousands of people died. The us is horrible.

It might last 5 pages or so, but his last post will be indentical to his first. I know this because I have seen it in other threads. The man will not consider other perspectives, or entertain new ideas. He just wants to say the US is evil. Thats all.

 

[mortiz]

I enjoy a good mass debate :O

(say it fast!)

 

[CptStern]

The typical stern post. Nothing contructive offered, just ranting on how the US sucks big ones. To answer your question burner, I have no problem debating with a reasonable person, but do you really think that there is any point in trying to conduct a productive converstation with someone like this? It will be something like:

me: stern, perhaps the sanctions were needed. Lets discuss this.
stern: 50000000000 people dies, the US is evil.
me: stern, perhaps the war was justified despite no major WMDs found. Have you considered this?
stern: thousands of people died. The us is horrible.

It might last 5 pages or so, but his last post will be indentical to his first. I know this because I have seen it in other threads. The man will not consider other perspectives, or entertain new ideas. He just wants to say the US is evil. Thats all.

:upstare: ..you want to disprove anything I've said? ...funny how you attack the messager, not the message ..this is the same crap I get out of all of you ..blah blah stern is this blah blah stern is anti-american ..do any of actually try to find the truth in what happened? not one of you will admit what happened was horrible ..every last one of you tried to justify it ..yet when american are attacked you scream for their bloody heads ..seriously there's something wrong with the people of this world ...compassion and truth has been subverted by conformist ideology. Patriotism is the new mantra that is said loudly to dispell all reason

 

[Zorrander001]

Ok, I'll see where this goes.

..you want to disprove anything I've said?

I never accused you of lying. My problem isn't the information you post, it's in the vein that it is posted. Despite your baseless preconceived notions, I am not some dullard who turns a blind eye to the truth in the spirit of patriotism.

...funny how you attack the messager, not the message

In this case the messanger is what I have a problem with. Hilarious, ain't it! It is possible for a person to recite fact and yet still be pushing an negative extremist agenda. The terrorists do the same thing every day, using fact to justify a radical and inhumane thought process, much like your own. I bet you don't even realize how close to the terrorist mindset you are. Burner will likely interpret this as me calling you a terrorist.

..do any of actually try to find the truth in what happened? not one of you will admit what happened was horrible ..every last one of you tried to justify it

I admit the death of even one innocent for any reason is horrible, but you want it to stop there. I think it is more productive to move past that and examine the possible ramifications or benefits of an event, where you just want to harp of the statistics.


The rest of your post serves only to attempt to insult americans and doesn't warrent a reply from me.

 

[CptStern]

typical ...I'm really getting tired of this baseless scapegoating

 

[DEATH eVADER]

In this case the messanger is what I have a problem with. Hilarious, ain't it! It is possible for a person to recite fact and yet still be pushing an negative extremist agenda. The terrorists do the same thing every day, using fact to justify a radical and inhumane thought process, much like your own. I bet you don't even realize how close to the terrorist mindset you are. Burner will likely interpret this as me calling you a terrorist.

Careful Laddy, you treading on thin-ice.

 

[Pesmerga]

Or is it just North Korea being... well... North Korea.

Definitly. It's horrifically insane, the way the population of N.Korea thinks. They could be starved and they would still hold loyalty to their "god". The amount of brainwashing is underestimated, they believe without a doubt that their leader will send them to heaven or glory or whatever the **** they think.

 

[Some_God]

Yeah... I seen the Discovery Times Channel on how people live there... Pyonyang (w/e) is probably the most BS city in the world atm. Now. Who wants to sing with me? Let's go bomb North Korea!!

 

[kirovman]

Yeah... I seen the Discovery Times Channel on how people live there... Pyonyang (w/e) is probably the most BS city in the world atm. Now. Who wants to sing with me? Let's go bomb North Korea!!

I heard it's like the set of a movie. With the fronts of buildings existing, but no actual building.

I hope I can visit there before it opens up, it's suppose to be like a Stalinist theme park, and they let a limited amount of tourists in every year. Under supervision of a government tour guide of course (you can't go off the trail, doing a bit of wandering).

I'd say it's very safe to actually be a foreign tourist there (except for Japanese, and movie directors who are prone to kidnapping) because they want to give a good impression of their country. Like China, it's really safe to be a foreigner in China.

LOL, I just realised how crazy this sounds, everyone wants to bomb the place and i'm talking about going sightseeing.

But you can get a taxi from Dalian in China to the NK border, then go across, and on 2/5 days, you'll be allowed to come in.

-oh they probably don't let Japanese, SK and USA people in though. and if you have a NK stamp in your passport, I'd imagine it'd be difficult to get in the USA afterwards.

 

[burner69]

Ok, I'll see where this goes.

I never accused you of lying. My problem isn't the information you post, it's in the vein that it is posted. Despite your baseless preconceived notions, I am not some dullard who turns a blind eye to the truth in the spirit of patriotism.

So you have a problem with our beliefs? You disagree with our stance on the US government? So debate about it! Please, stop slagging us off and saying "You just hate the US you don't care about anyone really." Please, start debating.

In this case the messanger is what I have a problem with. Hilarious, ain't it! It is possible for a person to recite fact and yet still be pushing an negative extremist agenda. The terrorists do the same thing every day, using fact to justify a radical and inhumane thought process, much like your own. I bet you don't even realize how close to the terrorist mindset you are. Burner will likely interpret this as me calling you a terrorist.

No, it's negative towards the west, it's not extreme, it's based on fact, and before you say it; No, we don't always slag the US off. In other debates you'll see me sticking up for the US - just in this case I believe that the US (and often the UK) is the greater of two evils, we're just good at covering it up. If you have a problem with this start bloody debating against it; not just saying "Boy, I hate you people who hate the US."

I admit the death of even one innocent for any reason is horrible, but you want it to stop there. I think it is more productive to move past that and examine the possible ramifications or benefits of an event, where you just want to harp of the statistics.

You want to discuss the killing? I'll debate that with you, I believe the UN sanctions were without just cause. You can't try and make a group of unarmed, innocent civilians revolt against their heavily guarded leader by screwing up their water supply. Clearly it was never going to work, and now there are half a million dead people, a WTC destroyed (OBL mentioned these sanctions in his reason for attacking the US), and Saddam was not revolted against. Thus, I believe the sanctions were unwarrented, and quite f**king evil.

The rest of your post serves only to attempt to insult americans and doesn't warrent a reply from me.

Well all your posts on this thread have involved your 'problem' with us. I'll be happy to debate with you, but if you just come in throwing accusations don't expect a good debate on issues.