Polish President Killed in Plane Crash

Shem

Shem

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This is quite a sad story.

Polish President, Lech Kaczynski, among 97 people has died in a plane crash in Russia, today Saturday. It appears the plane, a TU-154 Polish government plane, had problems with visibility as a result of dense fog in the Smolensk region, western Russia. None of the 97 people who were inside the aircraft survived the accident, according to plane crash reports.
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http://toppayingideas.com/blog/2010/04/10/polish-president-plane-crash-polish-president-dead/
 
My Mom woke me up and said Lech Walesa died. Stupid mom. Still, terrible disaster.
 
Very tragic event. It's going to upset the balance of power quite a bit - the acting president is now the speaker of the Parliament, member of the PO, same party as the Premier, key figures of the opposition party PiS are dead, along with our entire military high command.

Thankfully, the Constitution prepared us for this eventuality.
 
Anyone else see a political incident waiting to happen here?
 
Crazy shit. :eek:

Hopefully Poland will have a speedy stabilization of government after this.
 
What I don't understand is why they flew with so many high ranking officials on board.
 
Very tragic indeed. One of the worst days in Polish history.

Escaep said:
What I don't understand is why the flew with so many high ranking officials on board.
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Me neither. I think there's some rule for that, but as we saw it wasn't obeyed.
 
Saw this on the news earlier - I'm not surprised here were no survivors, the crash was a terrible sight.

All the city centres were filled with the public mourning, apparently.
 
Polish politician/general/minister:
Day 1: Omg the tragedy
Day 2: Omg, an early promotion

Sorry for my crude view above, but a horrible tragedy indeed. Poland is screwed
 
Holy shit. They really shouldn't have flown with all those important people on one plane.

How will the government cope? I mean, at least most of the parliament members are alive, but it's going to take some time to get everything straightened up. The destruction of a State's political and military hierarchy is something I shudder to think about.

So, what does Poland do now? Early elections? What about its military? Who is in charge/in command of various higher-tier command groups?

It just blows my mind. Horrible thing, both to my humanitarian and to my twisted systematical self.
 
That's terrible. I'm sorry to hear this.

So who takes over? (too soon?) Is he likable?
 
Holy ****, this was some kind of set up. Why were all the heads of government on-board?
 
VirusType2 said:
Holy ****, this was some kind of set up. Why were all the heads of government on-board?
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It wasn't a setup. There was probably some big meeting or something planned... and those people wouldn't have been on the plane if they didn't want to be. The president wouldn't have allowed it, and they wouldn't have allowed it. Whatever got them on that plane, was for legitimate reasons I'm betting.

Also, it's reported that they attempted to make several passes to land, but were told repeatedly they should divert to one of two different other airfields. The President apparently had a reputation for forcing his pilots to land, being stubborn I guess. His stubbornness probably is what got them all killed.


From wikipedia(this isn't where I got the information from by the way).

Pilot ignoring advice from air traffic control
A mission control operator told Reuters anonymously "The pilot was advised to fly to Moscow or Minsk because of heavy fog, but he still decided to land. No one should have been landing in that fog."[30]

Alexandr Aleshin, the First Deputy Chief of the Main Staff of the Russian Air Force, said that the plane increased its descent rate and went below the glide slope 1.5 km (0.93 mi) from the runway. Controllers instructed the pilot to abort the approach; when he did not, controllers advised the aircraft to return to the reserve landing point. This order was repeated several times but the crew continued with the approach and crashed.[31]

There is a speculation that the pilot tried to land repeatedly against controller's advice because of pressure from the delegation, eager to make the important ceremony.[32] The President had not been invited to the joint Russian-Polish event that had happened three days earlier, which was attended by the Prime Ministers of Poland and Russia. In August 2008, the pilot of Kaczy?ski's plane was threatened with dismissal when he refused to land in Tbilisi during the South Ossetian war between Georgia and Russia.[33]

On 23 January 2008, a Polish military plane with senior officers crashed under similar landing conditions.[34] Improper crew selection, bad weather and pilot distraction were cited as the major causes as inexperienced pilots, trying to see the ground, failed to notice the plane's losing altitude.[35]
 
Modern planes should be able to handle fog without an issue. With all the equipment those things can carry planes are able to land themselves. A little fog shouldn't have been an issue. (this is assuming that the plane was modern... why a country would put their head of state in a less than cutting edge aircraft is beyond me.)

Very tragic.
 
lord_raken said:
Modern planes should be able to handle fog without an issue. With all the equipment those things can carry planes are able to land themselves. A little fog shouldn't have been an issue. (this is assuming that the plane was modern... why a country would put their head of state in a less than cutting edge aircraft is beyond me.)

Very tragic.
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From what I understand it was an old Soviet-era plane.
 
lord_raken said:
Modern planes should be able to handle fog without an issue. With all the equipment those things can carry planes are able to land themselves. A little fog shouldn't have been an issue. (this is assuming that the plane was modern... why a country would put their head of state in a less than cutting edge aircraft is beyond me.)

Very tragic.
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It's true that fog should not be that much of an issue, but the thing is the airfield in Smolensk (where the plane crashed) does not have an Instrument Landing System, so the pilot can only rely on the info he gets from the control tower - nothing the plane can do here. The plane itself recently underwent a check up and was fine.

Kinslayer said:
From what I understand it was an old Soviet-era plane.
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It's been in service for ~25 years AFAIK. In comparison, the Boeing VC-25 (used as Air Force One) was manufactured in 1986. Not much of a difference.
 
lord_raken said:
Modern planes should be able to handle fog without an issue. With all the equipment those things can carry planes are able to land themselves. A little fog shouldn't have been an issue. (this is assuming that the plane was modern... why a country would put their head of state in a less than cutting edge aircraft is beyond me.)

Very tragic.
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The airport wasn't set up for automatic landing.

The plane was totally retrofited just a couple years back including replacing all the engines. So I don't think it was a problem with the plane, it was a problem with the pilot wanting to land under those conditions.
 
Yes to the above post.

On-topic, the government and the country will cope with ease. The Constitution and our law have contingencies for these case and the moment our president dies while still in office (or any other important figure) their contitutional replacements or vice-(position name) take on their powers.

The President position is temporarily filled in by the Speaker of the Parliament (Bronis?aw Komorowski in this case), who is obligated to set up presidential elections within two months.
 
It's a tragedy, but it'll be a good opportunity as well to show the world that Poland can reestablish the balance of power in a non-controversial way in the face of such a catastrophe.
 
So the consensus here is that the President is to blame?

To be honest, when it first happened and still at the back of my mind is a suspicion of russian involvement.
 
Solaris said:
So the consensus here is that the President is to blame?

To be honest, when it first happened and still at the back of my mind is a suspicion of russian involvement.
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Unless the Russians created the fog in an attempt to crash the plane, I doubt this was on them.
 
Raziaar said:
Unless the Russians created the fog in an attempt to crash the plane, I doubt this was on them.
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you never know what putin might come whit

putin_cold.jpg
 
The horrible irony of the Polish elite dying on Russian sole while traveling to a commemoration of the slaughter of the Polish elite during WW2 by the Russians is inevitable.
 
Solaris said:
**** you.

It wasn't to long ago Russia threatened Poland with nuclear attack, and so sabotage of this scale isn't wholly out of the question.

Dick.
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It's entirely out of the question. Apart from the fact that Russia had nothing to gain (as we're well prepared for such eventualities), it's downright insulting to everyone who died in this accident and to Russian officials who are genuinely concerned with this catastrophe, as it puts a big dent in Russia's image as a modern country.

As such, conspiracy theorists need to FOAD. Really, to claim that this accident was deliberately caused by anyone is... insane.
 
I read the title and thought Mr Sheen had finally snuffed it.

38613X.jpg


RIP
 
Tagaziel said:
It's entirely out of the question. Apart from the fact that Russia had nothing to gain (as we're well prepared for such eventualities), it's downright insulting to everyone who died in this accident and to Russian officials who are genuinely concerned with this catastrophe, as it puts a big dent in Russia's image as a modern country.

As such, conspiracy theorists need to FOAD. Really, to claim that this accident was deliberately caused by anyone is... insane.
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**** Russia. I'm not saying Russia caused it, I'm saying I'm suspicious of it, open to the idea of it even.

You clearly respect Russia and hold it as a nice democratic modern country. However I disagree, it bullys smaller states, invades them, threatens them with nuclear weapons, murders journalists and critics, kills Chechen civillians.

It's a brutal façade of a democratic western state.
 
Solaris said:
However I disagree, it bullys smaller states, invades them, threatens them with nuclear weapons, murders journalists and critics, kills Chechen civillians.
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Don't forget the ability to manipulate the weather at will to create thick fog.
 
Solaris said:
**** Russia. I'm not saying Russia caused it, I'm saying I'm suspicious of it, open to the idea of it even.
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Which means that you're an idiot.

You clearly respect Russia and hold it as a nice democratic modern country. However I disagree, it bullys smaller states, invades them, threatens them with nuclear weapons, murders journalists and critics, kills Chechen civillians.
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Yes, I do respect Russia, since it is a country that has suffered a lot. I do not ignore the suffering it gives out either, but do put it in perspective, seeing how western democracies are really not that much better at it.

Take USA for instance. Everything you accuse Russia of it has done too and on even greater scales.

Also, "threat of nuclear attack"? Just proves how much you rely on propaganda and fear mongering. Russia never threatened to nuke Poland nor any other country, the general was simply stating that a missile interceptor is a priority target in case of a nuclear war. Hardly a threat, considering that Russia is not going to wage war against the west.
 
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