The Marijuana CONPIRACY!

[No Limit]

That makes absolutely no sense. The more "bad" a drug is, the more important it is to legalise, because it is the very fact that it is illegal that causes the problems you just mentioned, among others

Please explain.

Are you trying to say that if these drugs are legal we will be giving them away for free?

 

[Reaktor4]

Please explain.

Are you trying to say that if these drugs are legal we will be giving them away for free?

Probably not free, in most cases anyway, but certainly not for the insanely inflated prices they go for in the illegal market. Of course, the more they are taxed, the more criminals will be able to undercut whoever is legally selling them. So if they are taxed too much the illegal market will remain open, albeit at a fraction of its current size.
Tax is causing some problems in the UK right now with tobacco and alcohol. There is a small black market going on, and lots of people take trips to france and come home with their cars full of cigarettes and drink.

 

[No Limit]

Probably not free, in most cases anyway, but certainly not for the insanely inflated prices they go for in the illegal market. Of course, the more they are taxed, the more criminals will be able to undercut whoever is legally selling them. So if they are taxed too much the illegal market will remain open, albeit at a fraction of its current size.
Tax is causing some problems in the UK right now with tobacco and alcohol. There is a small black market going on, and lots of people take trips to france and come home with their cars full of cigarettes and drink.

But anybody that thinks the price would drop like a rock is dreaming. Taxes, government regulation and corporate greed would ensure the prices would stay fairly close to where they are now. You don't actually believe our government would allow the unregulated import of cocaine and heroin from countries like Columbia do you? In addition you would have to have a limit on how much a person could buy, if you didn't you would have people dying by the thousands from OD the first day the drug went on sale.

 

[Beerdude26]

But anybody that thinks the price would drop like a rock is dreaming. Taxes, government regulation and corporate greed would ensure the prices would stay fairly close to where they are now. You don't actually believe our government would allow the unregulated import of cocaine and heroin from countries like Columbia do you? In addition you would have to have a limit on how much a person could buy, if you didn't you would have people dying by the thousands from OD the first day the drug went on sale.

To be honest, I wouldn't really mind that. If you're too retarded to realize that using up a kilogram of cocaine (very liberal amount, I know ) in one day will kill you or at least SEVERELY damage you, you can go ahead tbh. It's like telling a grown up not to stab himself with a knife. If this scenario did occur, I would get a lot of information out about how deadly and addictive this drug can be to prevent the ODs. It would of course destroy the country as a whole, but I just want to see something like that happen once.

 

[No Limit]

To be honest, I wouldn't really mind that. If you're too retarded to realize that using up a kilogram of cocaine (very liberal amount, I know ) in one day will kill you or at least SEVERELY damage you, you can go ahead tbh. It's like telling a grown up not to stab himself with a knife. If this scenario did occur, I would get a lot of information out about how deadly and addictive this drug can be to prevent the ODs. It would of course destroy the country as a whole, but I just want to see something like that happen once.

It does not take a kilo of cocaine to kill you, it takes a lot less than that especially when mixed with other drugs.

And it has nothing to do with stupidity, it has to do with addiction. I don't know if you've ever seen a addicted person high on their drug, they aren't the most rational person around, all the are thinking about is extending their high. This is the reason I believe that these drugs should be illegal.

 

[brink's]

I don't know if you've ever seen a addicted person high on their drug, they aren't the most rational person around, all the are thinking about is extending their high. This is the reason I believe that these drugs should be illegal.

Actually i think it's the opposite, when an addicted person is high on their drug they are more rational then ever. It's when it wears off that they start becoming a problem. Anyway, it's all the same in the end.

 

[No Limit]

Actually i think it's the opposite, when an addicted person is high on their drug they are more rational then ever. It's when it wears off that they start becoming a problem. Anyway, it's all the same in the end.

Good point.

 

[Reaktor4]

But anybody that thinks the price would drop like a rock is dreaming. Taxes, government regulation and corporate greed would ensure the prices would stay fairly close to where they are now. You don't actually believe our government would allow the unregulated import of cocaine and heroin from countries like Columbia do you? In addition you would have to have a limit on how much a person could buy, if you didn't you would have people dying by the thousands from OD the first day the drug went on sale.

The government that legalises them will not be one that wants the black market to remain.
In Britain the price of tobacco is about 80% tax already (500% markup). Drugs cost nothing to produce compared to what they sell for illegally. For the price of drugs to stay the same, the tax markup would have to run into the tens of thousands probably (I can't be arsed doing the actual calculations). How could they justify that amount of tax?
As for your last statement, it's so ridiculous I won't even respond to it.

And it has nothing to do with stupidity, it has to do with addiction. I don't know if you've ever seen a addicted person high on their drug, they aren't the most rational person around, all the are thinking about is extending their high. This is the reason I believe that these drugs should be illegal.

More nonsense.
PS. I'm not going to say any more, you sound like the type whose mind will just not be changed. Also you don't seem to know much about this (no offence), but for a well formed opinion you better do some (ok, a lot of) reading first.

 

[No Limit]

The government that legalises them will not be one that wants the black market to remain.
In Britain the price of tobacco is about 80% tax already (500% markup). Drugs cost nothing to produce compared to what they sell for illegally. For the price of drugs to stay the same, the tax markup would have to run into the tens of thousands probably (I can't be arsed doing the actual calculations). How could they justify that amount of tax?
As for your last statement, it's so ridiculous I won't even respond to it.

Do you want to have a serious discussion about this or not? Believe it or not I probably agree with you on a lot of stuff regaring this issue.

I also have a lot of personal, very personal, experiance in all of this. You might too. But what makes you believe that what I said was false? Already hundreds of people die in this country from OD, wether they took too much of a drug or they mixed too many different drugs it happens all the time. If you make access to those drugs easier common sense tells you it will happen more often, no?

And you are thinking of price in regards to taxes when in fact it has very little to do with taxes. It has to do with regulation. How much do legal drugs like vicodin, viagra, hydrocodone, and others already cost? They are priced through the roof not because of taxes.

More nonsense.
PS. I'm not going to say any more, you sound like the type whose mind will just not be changed. Also you don't seem to know much about this (no offence), but for a well formed opinion you better do some (ok, a lot of) reading first.

You don't know much about me so I suggest you stop guessing. Yes, I know a lot about this subject and I have seen what happens to people on those drugs. And you might get your "facts" from reading, I get it from personal experiance. I've seen good moral people turn in to absolute scum because of these drugs. If you haven't you are eighter lying to yourself or you've never actually knew somebody that became a tweaker or worse, a heroin addict. So please, don't talk to me in that condescending tone about this subject, I don't appreciate it.

 

[TechnoHippyChic]

I've seen good moral people turn in to absolute scum because of these drugs.

I'm not negating your experience NL, I've seen that, too, but I've also seen people who hold down a job, and just want to fix at night without harming anybody, but themselves (perhaps). Maybe not the majority, but it shouldn't be about the substance, but the actions.

How about this as a starting point:

Anything you can grow and/or refine reasonably for your own personal use could be done so without fear of prosecution. Be that pot, mescaline, poppy tea, or whatever. If you make hash, mesc. sulfate crystals, opium, same deal (still for your own use, and without acting like a dickhead).

Reasonable?

 

[Reaktor4]

Do you want to have a serious discussion about this or not?

No, I told you that I was finished. I've done it too many times and it's more or less the same as discussing god or evolution or whatever with a religionist. Brick wall + head. It's already clear that nothing productive would come out of a discussion and so now would be a good time to stop.

I also have a lot of personal, very personal, experiance in all of this. You might too.

yeah I have a little bit.

And you might get your "facts" from reading, I get it from personal experiance.

That is a severe self imposed limit on your knowledge then.

I don't appreciate it.

I told you I didn't mean to offend you.

 

[co05]

These posts are always LOL. They always end in the same place with the same people holding onto their old beliefs. No one walks away wiser or changed.

 

[Tyguy]

Im betting at least 1 person reading this will start smoking pot

 

[No Limit]

Reaktor, I am having a hard time believing you have any experiance with those hard drugs from the way you are talking about this. You seem to be the type of person that thinks these drugs are virtually harmless which means I really can't take you seriously. My personal opinion anyway. Now I'll move to somebody that is taking this serious issue as seriously as it should be taken:

I'm not negating your experience NL, I've seen that, too, but I've also seen people who hold down a job, and just want to fix at night without harming anybody, but themselves (perhaps). Maybe not the majority, but it shouldn't be about the substance, but the actions.

How long have you known those people and how well did you know them? A lot of people seem fine, until you see what they do to get their fix. Addiction doesn't appear overnight, it can take years to develop to the point where you can see a serious impact on the person's life. I have a hard time believing anyone that says they shoot up heroin one time a night and then go about their business the next day in a productive, meaningful way. So it is about actions like you say and those actions are controlled by the drug, not the person themselves.

How about this as a starting point:

Anything you can grow and/or refine reasonably for your own personal use could be done so without fear of prosecution. Be that pot, mescaline, poppy tea, or whatever. If you make hash, mesc. sulfate crystals, opium, same deal (still for your own use, and without acting like a dickhead).

I think maruijuana should be legal. So if you are growing plants for your own personal use fine with me. But I hope you aren't suggesting that we should all be allowed to have a meth lab in our house as long as the meth we produce is for personal use.

 

[ríomhaire]

Any drugs that can cause harm to your body shouldn't be legal.

Water causes harm to your body in high doses.

 

[Tyguy]

Water causes harm to your body in high doses.

PWND.

 

[TechnoHippyChic]

How long have you known those people and how well did you know them?

I didn't know them real well personally, but I worked with them for about 3 years. They showed up on time, did their duties, and were generally nice people.

I think maruijuana should be legal. So if you are growing plants for your own personal use fine with me. But I hope you aren't suggesting that we should all be allowed to have a meth lab in our house as long as the meth we produce is for personal use.

I don't think you can grow the precursors for meth, so that wouldn't really apply in this scenario. Lots of noxious stuff needed to produce it, so probably not the best idea in a subdivision or apartment complex. But if someone has their own land and wanted a meth shack in the middle of it, and didn't bother me, yeah, I wouldn't mind at all...

 

[Reaktor4]

Reaktor, I am having a hard time believing you have any experiance with those hard drugs from the way you are talking about this.

That's fine by me. Either way it doesn't change the validity of what I am saying.

You seem to be the type of person that thinks these drugs are virtually harmless which means I really can't take you seriously. My personal opinion anyway.

I don't see how you could have possibly come to that conclusion.
It's a fact that some of them will always be harmful in some way; to suggest otherwise would be silly. On the other hand some of them are deadly when polluted with the sort of dangerous crap that illegal drugs are cut with, but aren't known to cause much or any physical harm when pure, heroin being a very good example. Then there is the needle /HIV issue, the fact that illegal versions are of unknown purity increasing risk of overdose (straightforward ods almost never happen though), the vastly inflated cost leading to crime, corruption, drug tests -> job loss, families torn apart, $480 B/year (IIRC) going to cartels and terrorists, probably just as much being wasted fighting the counterproductive "drug war", increase in drug use etc. etc. etc. Harm stretches well beyond the individual user.
In any case, prohibiton will always make something (much) more harmful to everybody and therefore harm is not an argument for prohibition in my opinion, in reality it is the complete opposite.

Now I'll move to somebody that is taking this serious issue as seriously as it should be taken:.

Believe it or not the whole issue makes my blood boil. But years of the same old arguments about it frustrated me to the point where I decided to no longer take much part, otherwise I would be saying a lot more than I have in this thread. But I still care as much as I used to.
I guess if you reply it will be to disagree once again. Oh well. Wikipedia has an ok list of arguments for and against prohibition, and drugwarfacts.org covers a lot of what I'd tell you. So you can check them out if you're alright with softening your stance against reading facts. I have nothing more to say.

 

[No Limit]

Reaktor, again, you get way too many of your facts from reading and nothing you post seems to be from experiance. And yes, it does change the validity of what you are saying because what you are saying is not accurate.

When a drug dealer cuts his cocaine he cuts it with a cheaper substance to make money off it. The fact they put deadly chemicals in their drugs is a myth perpetrated by the same crowd you are so against. Putting baking soda in with cocaine will double a drug dealer's profit without causing harm to the person they are selling to, same applies to ether. And this kind of cutting has the direct opposite effect of making a drug deadlier, it actually makes the drug a lot weaker. Why in the hell would a drug dealer want to kill his/her customer by mixing in deadly compounds? Seems like bad business practice. I have no clue how heroin is cut but I have not heard of anybody in this city that died because somebody cut it with deadly chemicals, the result of the death is OD, have you heard of any such cases around this country?

You say you don't know where I came up with the fact that I think you think these drugs are harmless. Yet in your rebuttal you said exactly that:

but aren't known to cause much or any physical harm when pure, heroin being a very good example

If you think heroin has little to no physical side effects go to a rehab center in your area one day and talk to some heroin addicts. Then come back here and try to defend that.

But the physical damage part of this discussion has very little to do with what I am telling you. You are looking at this from a totally wrong, uneducated, perspective. The problem, I and most other people have with these drugs is not the damage it does to your body when you take them. Its what you end up doing when you are addicted to these drugs. Again, I recommend you visit a rehab center one day and talk to some real addicts of these terrible drugs. Ask them what happened to their family after they started using these drugs. Ask them what they did to get their fix. Ask them what kind of lives they had before they started using and the lives they have afterwards. Reading wikipedia and other internet sites that know virtually nothing about this subject won't give you enough experiance to understand the effects these drugs have on people.

I am not advocating locking up these people. I am advocating giving them help. If you make them legal you can not force somebody into rehab when they are arrested for these drugs.

You want to hide from this discussion by saying you are done yet continue to defend it in the future, fine, go for it. But you aren't fooling me.

 

[Dan]

Don't take offense from this but I simply can not believe that. By the time somebody gets to the point of using heroin they have fallen off the deep end.

Jack Bower kicked his heroin addiction in less than 24 hours... but then again he also did kill a lot of people.

 

[No Limit]

Jack Bower kicked his heroin addiction in less than 24 hours... but then again he also did kill a lot of people.

Well ok, maybe if you are Jack Bauer.

 

[Mr Stabby]

I think all drugs should be legal for adults, and should have explicit health warnings, people should be encouraged not to take them.

I would have reservations about the harder drugs as they can destroy people mentally, but drugs like marijuana and ketamine should be as legal as tobacco. Though IMO whether drugs were legal or not would not change the number of people who take them.

 

[Stigmata]

The government has a responsibility to protect its citizens from harm [edit: legitimate, serious harm]. Drugs like heroin and cocaine are incredibly harmful, and can very easily cause lifelong and highly debilitating addictions, so I do think they should be kept illegal. Other drugs like marijuana and non-addictive psychoactive/psychedelic drugs should be legalized in some fashion, especially given the legality of alcohol.

 

[HunterSeeker]

I think drugs that arent very addictive and less dangerus then alchohol should be legalized to adults, only be for sale with big health warnings and only sold in goverment controlled doses. Where you smoke something should be very restricted as well, probubly only to private areas and public areas that has been preapproved as a smoking area.

Although ideally no drug should be legal (including alchohol), but we all know how well that works.

 

[Absinthe]

Although ideally no drug should be legal (including alchohol), but we all know how well that works.

I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion. I don't find that ideal at all. That's horrible, in fact.

 

[Tyguy]

Although ideally no drug should be legal (including alchohol), but we all know how well that works.

I also would like an explanation...and PLEASE never run for office

 

[Kyorisu]

Silly people smoke doesn't belong in your lungs. +1 for that explanation too I love my scotch and brandy.

 

[Absinthe]

Silly people smoke doesn't belong in your lungs.

But it's my choice to put it in my lungs. Isn't that all that matters?

 

[Dan]

Glass of chardonnay after Sunday dinner, $5000 fine and a criminal record. Cold beer on the patio in summer time gets you 15 years in prison! Smoking after sex, 20 years! Watching the Wizard of Oz set to Pink Floyd while smoking a joint with your mates, death sentence! Only then will we be safe from the constant dangers of being alive.

 

[Stigmata]

I propose a country-wide prohibition on the inhalation of carbon monoxide! Breathe clean air or don't breathe at all!

 

[HunterSeeker]

I'm curious as to how you came to that conclusion. I don't find that ideal at all. That's horrible, in fact.

How many people arent harmed every year becouse some drunk guy decides to get into a car? Many turn violent when drunk. Alchohol has too many downsides to justify its upsides (IMO), but its very very popular and the crime that its banning would result in is far worse then the damage alchohol causes (not to mention that the problems would still remain, any reduction in them would be minor). The ideal way to remove it would be to do it over many generations, although by the time its done (if at all possible) we will probubly live in a society where alchohol is not a danger (or even lure) to anyone in any way. At least if the predictions of the transhumanists are true.

 

[Absinthe]

How many people are harmed by people driving sober?

Just because alcohol has the potential for destruction doesn't mean it's reasonable to propose it should be prohibited, even if just in an ideal scenario. I agree that alcohol is a dangerous drug, but making it illegal imposes upon the majority of responsible drinkers.

It wasn't just alcohol either, since you did say "all drugs". I can understand the reasoning behind alcohol, even though I disagree with it. But you're also lumping in substances such as cannabis and shrooms. These are all very different drugs with different chemistries and different effects. I don't see how a blanket statement such as "all drugs should be illegal" can be justified when considering that.

If one is going to consider making drugs illegal, they should be reviewed case by case.

 

[HunterSeeker]

How many people are harmed by people driving sober?

Just because alcohol has the potential for destruction doesn't mean it's reasonable to propose it should be prohibited, even if just in an ideal scenario. I agree that alcohol is a dangerous drug, but making it illegal imposes upon the majority of responsible drinkers.

It wasn't just alcohol either, since you did say "all drugs". I can understand the reasoning behind alcohol, even though I disagree with it. But you're also lumping in substances such as cannabis and shrooms. These are all very different drugs with different chemistries and different effects. I don't see how a blanket statement such as "all drugs should be illegal" can be justified when considering that.

If one is going to consider making drugs illegal, they should be reviewed case by case.

Sorry, I worded it poorly. I really meant that any slightly harmful drug should be illegal, caffeine and such not included (unless they are hamrful and I am not aware of it).

 

[Absinthe]

Any drug can be harmful, and that includes cannabis, caffeine, as well as any OTC or prescription substances one may take.

If we lived in a world where anything with the potential for harm or at least serious harm was prohibited, we'd be dead. :| The solution is not making these things illegal, but regulating them and punishing those who abuse their rights to use these things (ie. drunk drivers).

 

[TechnoHippyChic]

Alchohol has too many downsides to justify its upsides (IMO), but its very very popular and the crime that its banning would result in is far worse then the damage alchohol causes (not to mention that the problems would still remain, any reduction in them would be minor).

As is the case with everything else. It's just a failed policy / way to look at things.

 

[Mr Stabby]

How many people arent harmed every year becouse some drunk guy decides to get into a car? Many turn violent when drunk. Alchohol has too many downsides to justify its upsides (IMO), but its very very popular and the crime that its banning would result in is far worse then the damage alchohol causes (not to mention that the problems would still remain, any reduction in them would be minor). The ideal way to remove it would be to do it over many generations, although by the time its done (if at all possible) we will probubly live in a society where alchohol is not a danger (or even lure) to anyone in any way. At least if the predictions of the transhumanists are true.

Someone clearly has never been drunk...

 

[HunterSeeker]

Someone clearly has never been drunk...

I have, do not presume that just becouse you thoght it was great everyone in the world will.

 

[Nemesis6]

Well, I am against it the legalization of it. I live outside a haven for it called "Christiania", it's basically a relic from the 60s, and untill recently, light drugs were sold openly in there by street vendors.

There are two reasons why I oppose it. #1 - Drugs are dangerous. #2 - They create gangs

Let me elaborate on #2. Recently, after the drugs were outlawed, Arab immigrants from the inner city and Rockers(Hells Angels) are fighting for the monopoly on the drug trade. One new immigrant came in there to sell pot at a prize that was apparently too low, so he was chased by a mob with baseball bats. They chased him down an open street and beat him to death when they caught up with him HERE: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&om=1&ll=55.672911,12.59509&spn=0.002024,0.007167&z=18

So he ran all the way down the street on the right and turned a corner at the church. On the side that's obstructed by the view of the tower of the church, he was beaten to an unconscious pulp and died later in the hospital.

"Light drugs aren't dangerous!" they say. That's ****ing bullshit.

 

[Baserape>]

The problem with hash is it is considered a gateway drug. Taking the drug does not inspire you to move on to the next big thing. It's the people who supply the drug who inspire there users to move along the drug tree.

If hash was legalized you could in theory take hundreds of thousands of hash users away from the black market. Making it harder for drug dealers to recruit new addicts/customers. Also governments world wide could severely dent the illegal drug trade if they bought and supported farmers who grow poppy's in the third world. The drug/s could be used for medical purposes for example.

 

[Absinthe]

1.) Whether or not I choose to ingest dangerous drugs is, quite simply, none of your ****ing business. Unless I'm shanking you under a coke craze, driving while stoned, or doing anything that directly harms you, who are you to tell me what can and cannot go into my body?

2.) Drugs do not create gangs. Prohibition of drugs creates gangs. Legalizing and regulating drugs through legitimate business channels undermines drug-related gang activity because people will no longer have to turn to deviant sources for such substances.

Alcohol-related crime was rampant when it was prohibited. Legalizing it took a large chunk of cash and power out of organized crime because they were no longer the sole suppliers. Its not like we have "beer wars" in this day and age. Why would cannabis be any different?