The PETA (Yes, it's time to talk about them)

[Nemesis6]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY[/YOUTUBE]

Penn & Teller really gets it right. What do you think?

 

[Absinthe]

These kinds of polls could do without those kinds of voting options...

Any way, I do not like them. I think they're extreme in many of their views and have some pretty shady connections to more violent groups and individuals. Their more sane causes are already practiced by others and are issues of compassionate common sense that they hold no exclusivity over. I've heard people say that they like their core intents but disagree with their methods. I say it matters little if their intents are pure, because it's your actions that matter. They churn out far too much propaganda and their ultimate goal of total animal liberation is not only untenable, but would be disasterous not only for animals, but for humans as well. Their PR seems focused more on prompting kneejerk sympathy by showing hurt animals rather than wanting intelligent, reasoned discourse.

 

[jverne]

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ijLulwUTY[/YOUTUBE]

Penn & Teller really gets it right. What do you think?

already seen that.

it's a ****ed up world we live in.

 

[Nemesis6]

Don't blame the world because its inhabitants are a bit kooky sometimes. The world's still a beautiful place. If the PETA had their way, we would lose a large part of it; the wildlife.

They're just evil hypocrites is my opinion. And the word "evil" does fit them. When you call people like Jerry Greenwalt murderers, you're a monster yourself.

 

[mastag]

Pssh, I love steak because it tastes like murder. yum yum.

 

[CptStern]

sensationalist alarmist garbage and discussed to death in this thread
http://halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126760&highlight=stern&page=2

...penn and teller need to take their own advice and stop pushing bullshit

nemesis before you open your big mouth read the thread above

 

[mastag]

sensationalist alarmist garbage and discussed to death in this thread
http://halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126760&highlight=stern&page=2

...penn and teller need to take their own advice and stop pushing bullshit

nemesis before you open your big mouth read the thread above

Please, do give us your opinion on PETA and the ALF.

 

[Que-Ever]

Alf eats cats. He obviously doesn't support PETA.

 

[DeusExMachina]

sensationalist alarmist garbage and discussed to death in this thread
http://halflife2.net/forums/showthread.php?t=126760&highlight=stern&page=2

...penn and teller need to take their own advice and stop pushing bullshit

Oh no, penn and teller are in disagreement with stern! I guess this means they're obviously wrong.

 

[CptStern]

Please, do give us your opinion on PETA and the ALF.

read the thread I linked to above, it's all there

Oh no, penn and teller are in disagreement with stern! I guess this means they're obviously wrong.

again read the thread I linked to above, I refute almost everything they say in the video

 

[mastag]

read the thread I linked to above, it's all there



again read the thread I linked to above, I refute almost everything they say in the video

Animal torture is a horrible tragedy. But throwing blood on fur wearers, telling children their dad is a murderer for fishing, etc, is not a good way to get your message across. And i really don't see what the problem is with having pets. Also, do you believe that eating meat is the equivalent of the holocaust?

 

[CptStern]

Animal torture is a horrible tragedy. But throwing blood on fur wearers, telling children their dad is a murderer for fishing, etc, is not a good way to get your message across. And i really don't see what the problem is with having pets. Also, do you believe that eating meat is the equivalent of the holocaust?

wow, that took you no time at all to read the entire thread



read the thread :|


you can rely on alarmist bullshit put across by entertainers masquerading as journalists or you can take the time and effort to research it yourself ....well read the thread above I've done most of the research for you

 

[Absinthe]

read the thread I linked to above, it's all there



again read the thread I linked to above, I refute almost everything they say in the video

I recall a lot of arguing in that topic. I can't say I recall what exactly you refuted. :|

I'd read through the topic again if I wasn't just checking in briefly during a WoW pause... and if it wasn't so messy.

 

[Qonfused]

I remember how entertaining that thread was, Stern. Thanks for the laughs.

 

[CptStern]

I recall a lot of arguing in that topic. I can't say I recall what exactly you refuted. :|

I'd read through the topic again if I wasn't just checking in briefly during a WoW pause... and if it wasn't so messy.

ok I'm not watching the penn and teller thing again ..from the top of my head

peta freezer: ya well where do you expect them to hold the hundreds of animals they've had to euthanize after shutting down a puppy mill or whathaveyou ..all euthanization is done by liscenced veterinarians

the money to arsonist: it wasnt a peta member it was a member of ALF, anyone can join either organisation by simply sending them a donation whiz bang presto you're a member of peta ..the head of peta (what's her face) who previously worked in law enforcement does not advocate violence. The money was part of a legal defense fund there is no discrimination between cases, just like any other legal defense fund ..the money donated to arsonists father was annoynomous, without cosent of the board of directors and peta's members

the various groups that Penn and teller cite that are anti-peta are in fact members of various meat industry and special interest groups mostly to do with the hospitality industry ...of course they have a reason to be dismissive of peta; they threaten their livelihood

the holocaust thing ..I dont see why this isnt obvious to the lot of you ...people died in the holocaust, he compares the animal suffering to the holocaust ..because animals endure extreme hardship and pain in the process of becoming your dinner ..is he saying that the animal cruelty is morally equivilent to the holocaust? no, at least not from what he says ..in any event he's one person and hardly represents every peta member

that's all I can remember

basically penn and teller are pushing ad hominem attacks in order to discredit peta ..poor excuse for journalism and more akin to disinformative opinion



anyways I'm done with this issue, the bandwagon jumpers are arriving in droves to take potshots at me, not a single one of you will read the material provided so why bother arguing?

 

[Qonfused]

basically penn and teller are pushing ad hominem attacks in order to discredit peta ..poor excuse for journalism and more akin to disinformative opinion

Uh, duh? It's an entertainment show more than anything else. I don't watch Bullshit to learn about political subjects, I watch because it's funny. And if I already agree with them, it adds to the enjoyment. They recite what I already believe in...

 

[CptStern]

Uh, duh? It's an entertainment show more than anything else. I don't watch Bullshit to learn about political subjects, I watch because it's funny. And if I already agree with them, it adds to the enjoyment. They recite what I already believe in...

everything they say is inaccurate ..so that kind of destroys the show for me

 

[<RJMC>]

tipical aswers to see in this threads

"dude aniamls rights is sutpid cuz I am a man and me eats meat cuz I have hair in the balls and meat makes my hair and muscles bigger and me become more men,cuz me are macho and we macho dont care about animals cuz me eat hamburgers,now excuse me while I go to watch 300 naked to feel more manly"

 

[Nemesis6]

peta freezer: ya well where do you expect them to hold the hundreds of animals they've had to euthanize after shutting down a puppy mill or whathaveyou ..all euthanization is done by liscenced veterinarians

Instead of murdering the animals, how about sending them to animal shelters? Who knows? A few might survive after all, and might not need to be "put to sleep. Forever."

the money to arsonist: it wasnt a peta member it was a member of ALF, anyone can join either organisation by simply sending them a donation whiz bang presto you're a member of peta ..the head of peta (what's her face) who previously worked in law enforcement does not advocate violence. The money was part of a legal defense fund there is no discrimination between cases, just like any other legal defense fund ..the money donated to arsonists father was annoynomous, without cosent of the board of directors and peta's members

So PETA gives the family of an arsonist money. Now why would they give an arsonist money? Here's where it gets easy: Because they support him on some level. Otherwise they wouldn't give him money.

the various groups that Penn and teller cite that are anti-peta are in fact members of various meat industry and special interest groups mostly to do with the hospitality industry ...of course they have a reason to be dismissive of peta; they threaten their livelihood

I have no problem hearing from anti-PETA groups. I hate PETA and any sane person should, too. People who tell children that their parents are murderers for eating meat are evil.

the holocaust thing ..I dont see why this isnt obvious to the lot of you ...people died in the holocaust, he compares the animal suffering to the holocaust ..because animals endure extreme hardship and pain in the process of becoming your dinner ..is he saying that the animal cruelty is morally equivilent to the holocaust? no, at least not from what he says ..in any event he's one person and hardly represents every peta member

They compare the treatment of animals with the way the Nazis treated Jews. This alone proves that they are heartless, bottom-feeding creeps, and people should distance themselves from PETA for that reason alone.

Now, since you don't wanna watch it, I'll narrate a little: They have this thing going, accusing Jerry Greenwalt, the head of Los Angeles Animal Shelter of being a murderer for doing the same thing that THEY are killing animals that are too weak. They're hypocrits.

That's why I call them evil hypocrits. That you defend these people is really low.


Oh, by the way, they use veternarians to kill the animals? I don't think Adria Hinkle and Andrew Cook were veterinarians when they used their own little kill-it-yourself-kit to kill over 31 animals in their PETA-owned van. Check it out: http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petaTrial.cfm

By the way again: Another one: In December 2003, Ruth Brown worked with Rainbow Rescue in Roanoke Rapids, NC, when she recieved an email from PETA. "I thought it was the answer from heaven," Brown said. "We just thought "PETA is the godfather for animals." Ruth was told that the animals she transferred to PETA "would be prepared for potential adoption". Then she found out PETA just killed them.

Are you feeling bad now Stern? Because you ****ing should be.

 

[CptStern]

Instead of murdering the animals, how about sending them to animal shelters? Who knows? A few might survive after all, and might not need to be "put to sleep. Forever."

spare me your armchair medical assessment, you have no idea in what condition they were in

So PETA gives the family of an arsonist money. Now why would they give an arsonist money? Here's where it gets easy: Because they support him on some level. Otherwise they wouldn't give him money.

once again your inability to comprehend simple basic ideas leads to another kneejerk reaction:

the money to arsonist: it wasnt a peta member it was a member of ALF, anyone can join either organisation by simply sending them a donation whiz bang presto you're a member of peta ..the head of peta (what's her face) who previously worked in law enforcement does not advocate violence. The money was part of a legal defense fund there is no discrimination between cases, just like any other legal defense fund ..the money donated to arsonists father was annoynomous, without cosent of the board of directors and peta's members

what part are you not understanding? I'm starting to run out of options when it comes to trying to communicate basic ideas to you ..really what does it take? should I spell eerything phonetically? try sign language? smoke signals? what does it take to get you to read the actual material provided without jumping to an immediate kneejerk comclusion based on nothing more than the headline and the opening sentence ..debating you is a complete waste of time

I have no problem hearing from anti-PETA groups. I hate PETA and any sane person should, too.

you're an idiot

People who tell children that their parents are murderers for eating meat are evil.

evil just oh sooo evil, a pox on you oh evil doers ...shut up

They compare the treatment of animals with the way the Nazis treated Jews. This alone proves that they are heartless, bottom-feeding creeps, and people should distance themselves from PETA for that reason alone.

here we go with the inability to comprehend simple sentences ..ffs you're like a walking headline ..all noise and no substance ..I've already explained the issue:

...he compares the animal suffering to the holocaust ..because animals endure extreme hardship and pain in the process of becoming your dinner ..is he saying that the animal cruelty is morally equivilent to the holocaust? no..

Now, since you don't wanna watch it, I'll narrate a little:

I've watched it ..I discussed the video clip in the previous thread, you know the one I TOLD YOU TO READ? ...I know this is hard but try to pay attention /me sends smoke signals, tries morse code

They have this thing going, accusing Jerry Greenwalt, the head of Los Angeles Animal Shelter of being a murderer for doing the same thing that THEY are killing animals that are too weak. They're hypocrits.

so they should just die in pain instead of euthanized humanely?

That's why I call them evil hypocrits. That you defend these people is really low.

spare me your melodramatic nonsense ..it's a transparent attempt at drumming up sympathy for your side of things by implying I'm morally irreprehensible, you're an idiot, no one takes your side

Oh, by the way, they use veternarians to kill the animals? I don't think Adria Hinkle and Andrew Cook were veterinarians when they used their own little kill-it-yourself-kit to kill over 31 animals in their PETA-owned van. Check it out: http://www.petakillsanimals.com/petaTrial.cfm

yes and here's the non retarded news source on that story:

It's hideous," Ingrid Newkirk, president of the animal rights group (PETA), said of the dumping. "I think this is so shocking it's bound to hurt our work."

She did say that PETA's policy is to euthanize animals here and then cremate them, not throw away the bodies. So, an investigation has been launched into the actions of the two employees

http://www.wvec.com/news/local/stories/wvec_local_061705_peta_court.1b0c99cf.html

"PETA has provided euthanasia services to various counties in that state to prevent animals from being shot with a .22 behind a shed or gassed in windowless metal boxes -- both practices that were carried out until PETA volunteered to provide painless death for the animals."

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2005/06/23/EDG11DC9BK1.DTL

so in other words peta takes animals scheduled to be euthanized either through gas or a bullet to the head and gives them a lethal injection instead sparing them from a painful death

By the way again: Another one: In December 2003, Ruth Brown worked with Rainbow Rescue in Roanoke Rapids, NC, when she recieved an email from PETA. "I thought it was the answer from heaven," Brown said. "We just thought "PETA is the godfather for animals." Ruth was told that the animals she transferred to PETA "would be prepared for potential adoption". Then she found out PETA just killed them.

yes well read this, 3/4 way down, or hit ctrl f and type in newkirk

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0512/16/acd.01.html

It would be deceptive, if that's what she said. I do not believe for a minute that's what she said, because that's not what we are about. If you go to our Web site, and you watch what we're doing, and you look at the man -- the number of animals we take in, the bedraggled, broken bodies that we take in, and the ones no one can find homes for, we're not out there looking for animals you could place.

We're getting calls from the public. And that vet called us -- or that vet's assistant called us. He wasn't even present, so I'm not sure how he knows what was said.

SANCHEZ: So, you're saying that they're not necessarily telling the truth.

Let's move to another issue. Let's talk...

NEWKIRK: I don't believe they are.

watch this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAPO4xiyniI

Are you feeling bad now Stern? Because you ****ing should be.

you're an idiot ..anyways I'm tired of this issue it forces me to face certain realities that I'd rather not think about ...especially when I have to defend it to some half wit troglodyte who couldnt understand an issue as complex as this if he tried

 

[Atomic_Piggy]

No way in hell would I sopport them, but don't you think its a bit stupid to have "yes i'm an idiot" up. It makes you sound "OMGTHEYDISAGREEWITHMETHEYMUSTBESTUPID"

 

[mastag]

Stern, you linked me to page 2 of that thread, I assumed you wanted to read that page. Yes, the actions of some does not necessarily represent the actions of the whole organization, but they seem to condone it, or defend it.

 

[MJ12]

Well, I do believe there are some things that PETA supports that are good. But most of it is rediculous, and blown out of proportion.

If you don't wanna eat meat, okay cool, but don't shove it in my face.

News flash, we happen to be animals too, and we are omnivorous. So naturally, we often eat meat.

Hey, last time I checked lots of other animals eat meat. Hey, we are animals too?!?
-Guess what, were doing something natural, were eating other animals so we can survive.

And don't give me this "but they kill chickens everyday wif machines and dats not natural" bullshit.
No crap they kill chickens everyday, you know why? Because there are 6 billion people on this damn planet that want to eat, so we happen to have something that kills chickens fast? Big deal.

Not to mention, how ****ing convenient is it that so many PETA members are snobby rich punks.

Guess what, not eating meat, can end up being a serious expense when it comes to finding food. Because guess what, you're not gunna eat a friggin salad everyday.

Tofu and vegitarian health foods can be pretty expensive, so why pick on some low class family that can only afford the 3 dollar pack of hot dogs, just because you're a middle class/rich class snob who can afford to eat the 8 dollar pack of tofu hot dogs whenever he wants?

 

[Jintor]

The idiocy outweighs any good they do, which I can't detect in any case.

 

[Kyorisu]

The whole concept of PETA is retarded on so many levels. Stern why you bother to defend them is beyond me, join the hate it's more fun.

you're an idiot ..anyways I'm tired of this issue it forces me to face certain realities that I'd rather not think about ...especially when I have to defend it to some half wit troglodyte who couldnt understand an issue as complex as this if he tried

Complex? You must be joking. Group blah sais you shouldn't eat meat, do you support them? As a meat eater myself the obvious answer is **** no. I don't care for whatever else they stand for. Meanwhile you call Nemesis a half-wit and proceed to use words such as troglodyte? I don't know too many half-wits who can even pronounce that word let alone know what it means. When insulting someone it's good measure to stick to their vocabulary no?

 

[The Brick]

Get out of here this thread is gonna blow!

 

[Gray Fox]

It's not that PETA isn't retarded, it's just that this is a situation of The Pot Calling The Kettle Black.
And every day it gets worse and worse, right now we are at a point were PETA almost seems sane compared to most you.

 

[CptStern]

it's obvious none of you even understand what peta is about ..Peta: People for the ETHICAL TREATMENT of animals ...zombieturtle your entire post is made up speculative drivel and completely unrelated to the discussion at hand ..to try to justify eating meat because other animals do and at the same deriding PETA for not realizing this is akin to shouting out random words in the hopes of forming a sentence; you're not making sense ..you couldnt even be bothered to read any of the supplied material, all you could muster is reading the thread title before throwing in your 2 cents ..well that's not good enough ...the reason why I hate this issue besides the obvious horrors visited on animals is that critics of this issue know absolutely nothing about it ..they know they like a nice piece of bar-b-q steak and that's it ..that's as far as they're likely to pursue this issue because anything ore might actually mean reading or heaven forbid researching an issue <shudder>


have any of you watched this video yet?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAPO4xiyniI

Kyo I will not dumb down my insults ..if he doesnt understand them well that's tough, use a dictionary ...besides I get tired of using the same superlatives to describe nemesis

 

[Absinthe]

It's not that PETA isn't retarded, it's just that this is a situation of The Pot Calling The Kettle Black.
And every day it gets worse and worse, right now we are at a point were PETA almost seems sane compared to most you.

Yes, I'm insane for eating meat. I believe you also said you condoned violence against meat eaters in the previous topic, yes?

And Stern, who cares what their name stands for? Just because it has the word "ethical" in it doesn't mean it's all fine and dandy and anybody who dislikes them wants to see kittens stomped under boot heels. They're shrill. Their version of ethical treatment would eventually eliminate animal testing for medical science. They trivialize real human atrocities to subsequently demonize those that don't sit within their short-sighted views. Any good cause or valuable information they may dispense is buried under piles of exaggerations vast generalizations. They do condone violence as I pointed out in the previous topic.

But what do I know, right? I don't give a shit because I just want to eat steak...

 

[CptStern]

Yes, I'm insane for eating meat. I believe you also said you condoned violence against meat eaters in the previous topic, yes?

And Stern, who cares what their name stands for? Just because it has the word "ethical" in it doesn't mean it's all fine and dandy and anybody who dislikes them wants to see kittens stomped under boot heels.

absinthe you miss my point entirely ..the name says what they stand for: ethical treatment of animals ..that's why they go after the meat and fur industry becuse they dont treat their animals ethically:

this is what they fight against:

http://www.inthesetimes.com/images/28/24/pigs.jpg

They're shrill.

and?

their version of ethical treatment would eventually eliminate animal testing for medical science.

most testing of animals is for cosmetics not science ..and I've yet to read anywhere where they want t eliminate all animal testing ..still I've said in the past I dont support peta mostly because their methodology attracts far too much negative reactions

They trivialize real human atrocities to subsequently demonize those that don't sit within their short-sighted views.

oh come on, one person's opinions hardly constitutes the groups ..the holocaust thing IS accurate so long as you dont attach moral equiviliancy to the meaning as most people do

Any good cause or valuable information they may dispense is buried under piles of exaggerations vast generalizations. They do condone violence as I pointed out in the previous topic.

no you did not, you pointed out that some members condone violence ..and condoning violence is not the same as advocating it ...funny how so many people scream bloody murder that a commercial lab was set ablaze yet had it been say mcdonalds no one would bat an eye

But what do I know, right? I don't give a shit because I just want to eat steak...

this is unlike you absinthe, generally you're quite reasonable, you're not being reasonable right now. yes people dont give a shit, even after I show the conditions animals live in on factory farms it's completely ignored because as I've said in the past people dont want to be confronted with this issue because it would force them to examine their own conscious and reexamine the way they live ..the majority of people arent willing to do that ..in any event this will eventually be thrust into the forefront when some deadly outbreak of avian flu is tracked down to a factory farm where they almost always originate ..or salmonella poisoning or some such scare ...even if you dont give a shit about how the animals you eat are treated sooner or later you will care due to the unsanitary conditions inherent in the meat industry


again I hate talking about this issue because no one listens and people become wholly irrational and my pov isnt exactly winning me any friends .. I'm tired of being a target of people who couldnt be bothered to look at the material provided ..it's just becomes a lesson in futility as no one is willing to do the required reading

 

[Kyorisu]

Kyo I will not dumb down my insults ..if he doesnt understand them well that's tough, use a dictionary ...besides I get tired of using the same superlatives to describe nemesis

Bah your no fun.

http://www.inthesetimes.com/images/28/24/pigs.jpg

Oh shit you just lost Stern you lost big time. Want to know why they keep pigs like that? To stop the mothers turning around and eating their young. That's right the mothers will go nuts and kill all their children. I've had to bury my fair share of dead piglets and I'm fully aware of pig farm conditions. You put pigs in an open environment and you'll quickly find yourself with a bunch of old pigs and nothing much else. I use to work at Wasley's piggery one of the biggest pig farms (if not biggest in my State) we'd spend 1 million on food, 1mil on power and another mil on water monthly. You cannot come anywhere near to producing the same level of piglets and keep them alive in an "ethical" environment.

It gets better because I'm not finished yet. Ever had 300kilos of pig run straight at you? If you don't move and I mean move fast you'll have broken legs pretty quickly. Not only is keeping pigs in an open environment very poor in efficiency it's incredibly dangerous for the workers. I've had some close calls and nearly got smacked side on until a mate yelled for me to get out of the way and that was dealing with one pig, imagine dealing with more than one.

Then you have to think about the numbers. How do you make sure every animal gets the same amount of feed and water and be able to feed and water every single pig quickly? You work at a farm there isn't any time to be fart arsing around going around massive enclosures. You have to clean the pigs, move the pigs, feed the pigs, move large loads with a tractor, do whatever else needs doing. I'd like to see someone try and do all that from 6am-4pm with larger enclosures.

If PETA can give me a way to micro manage a pig farm and keep it an "ethical" environment without loosing thousands of piglets my hat is off to them.

 

[CptStern]

Oh shit you just lost Stern you lost big time. Want to know why they keep pigs like that? To stop the mothers turning around and eating their young. That's right the mothers will go nuts and kill all their children. I've had to bury my fair share of dead piglets and I'm fully aware of pig farm conditions. You put pigs in an open environment and you'll quickly find yourself with a bunch of old pigs and nothing much else. I use to work at Wasley's piggery one of the biggest pig farms (if not biggest in my State) we'd spend 1 million on food, 1mil on power and another mil on water monthly. You cannot come anywhere near to producing the same level of piglets and keep them alive in an "ethical" environment.

riiiight

http://www.hsus.org/web-files/Pig/540x360_pigs_aisle_usda.jpg


baby pigs teeth and tail are removed so that they dont attack each other ..there's a video of the process, all done without anesthesia

http://www.all-creatures.org/anex/pig.html

they spend their entire lives in a cage not large enough to turn around in, they defecate where they stand ..you're saying this is somehow ethical? watch the videos I provided ..how can you sit there and say anyof it is ethical?

 

[Kyorisu]

Stern have you or have you not had a 300 kilo pig run at you? I'm not saying the current environments are ethical and your pics are pretty bad even from my experiences. But sure lets just use the worse and ignore places that at least try and be nice while sustaining large amounts of produced animals.

 

[CptStern]

what does that matter in the least? what does that have to do with anything? watch the videos

 

[Kyorisu]

At this factory farm, these two young pigs died before reaching six months of age, when they would normally be slaughtered. That's right. They slaughter babies for human food. They even leave these dead pigs in plain sight of the other pigs, which increases their stress.

Bullshit dead pigs smell, they are moved and buried in the morning (read: when workers arrive and find dead pigs). I've skimmed that page and it's full of worst case scenarios, as for the slaughtering process that was never done at my farm.

/Edit A political thread where I know what the heck I'm talking about, wow!

 

[Absinthe]

absinthe you miss my point entirely ..the name says what they stand for: ethical treatment of animals ..that's why they go after the meat and fur industry becuse they dont treat their animals ethically:

this is what they fight against:

http://www.inthesetimes.com/images/28/24/pigs.jpg

Yes, and Nazism stood for National Socialism.

Their name is but a title. It's their actions that matter. Any argument that depends on references towards the specific words in their title is specious.

most testing of animals is for cosmetics not science ..and I've yet to read anywhere where they want t eliminate all animal testing ..still I've said in the past I dont support peta mostly because their methodology attracts far too much negative reactions

http://www.peta.org/about/faq-viv.asp

"Even if we had no alternative to using animals, which is not the case, animal testing would still be ethically unacceptable."

Their call to end animal testing applies to all animal testing.

oh come on, one person's opinions hardly constitutes the groups ..the holocaust thing IS accurate so long as you dont attach moral equiviliancy to the meaning as most people do

The intent is moral equivalence. In fact, this is the only reasonable conclusion one can make when you take into account that PETA does not recognize ethical distinctions between man and animal.

no you did not, you pointed out that some members condone violence ..and condoning violence is not the same as advocating it ...funny how so many people scream bloody murder that a commercial lab was set ablaze yet had it been say mcdonalds no one would bat an eye

The official spokesperson for PETA condones violence. I evidenced this in the previous topic. Again, this is essentially the PR face of the group. It is reasonable to assume that the people put in such positions are selected because the group in question feels he or she best exemplifies their values.

I also hope you're not assuming what my reaction would be towards arson in a different scenario.

I'm not being unreasonable just because I don't agree with you. I recognize animal abuse as an issue, although it honestly does rank low on my list of world priorities. But PETA is not a group whose aims I respect. One does not need to be a member of PETA to care about the suffering of animals to a sane degree.

 

[Kyorisu]

PETA didn't bug me at all now that I think about it Greenpeace did. Those wackos would tie themselves to our front gate. Someone would have to hop over go to the tool shed and grab the bolt cutters so we could get in. How about when Greenpeace releases a few hundred pigs? Later on in my shift I'd be riding along in the tractor and spot a whole bunch lying dead in the middle of nowhere. Greenies are just so stupid, tying yourselves to the gate means we cannot feed the animals and they'll die anyway.

Am I a monster because I worked at a pig farm? No I care about the animals. Heck I'd get tested about animal treatment on the job. Rather funny when driving the tractor the test guy would have to run along side.

 

[No Limit]

Absinthe, I generally agree with most of what you say but in this case I have a problem. Why Stern, I, and most members of PETA feel so strongly about all of this is because of how these poor animals are treated in the name of profits. It has nothing to do with the fact you like to eat meat (I do too).

As much as I enjoy watching Penn and Teller what they do in cases like this is dishonest. I have not seen this perticular clip as I am at work, I'll check it out later. But from seeing most of their episodes I can bet you I know how this clip goes. They throw some crazy hippy out there that has paid his $5 PETA membership fee and use him as the symbol for every PETA member out there. For 1 insane PETA member there are 30 that are perfectly sane.

And the fact you as well as many of us disagree with some of their methods the fact is their main cause is a good one. They have done a whole lot of good, would you admit that? And these types of attacks on them are meant to discredit the issue of animal rights, and it is totally dishonest. As stern said in that thread he posted why would Penn & Teller not concentrate on the bigger issue of inhumane and down right shameful treatment of animals not only in this country but around the world? Instead they chose to attack a group that is trying to bring attention to that problem.

 

[Kyorisu]

And the fact you as well as many of us disagree with some of their methods the fact is their main cause is a good one. They have done a whole lot of good, would you admit that? And these types of attacks on them are meant to discredit the issue of animal rights, and it is totally dishonest. As stern said in that thread he posted why would Penn & Teller not concentrate on the bigger issue of inhumane and down right shameful treatment of animals not only in this country but around the world? Instead they chose to attack a group that is trying to bring attention to that problem.

There are better groups who do a far better job. The Society for Animal Welfare, Animal Liberation, People Against Cruelty in Animal Transport, World League for the Protection of Animals and the RSPCA come off the top of my head.

 

[Tyguy]

Seems to me people are ignorant about the issues because they want to be ignorant. The abuse is terrible and im far more comfortable being clueless as to where or how my burger came to be in front of me. However im not about to give up meat to prove a point.

I was the first person to select that I might agree with some of their moral views, and I do. However I was unaware that their goal was the complete liberation of animals and pets. Just plain stupid. They should aim for more practical causes such as harsher punishment for animal abuse to try and deter the amount of suffering.

Also, what kinds of punishments are given out to slaughter houses who are found to be torturing animals?