Trouble in Paradise Pt. 2

[MichaelT]

I seriously doubt they will hold the game longer than a month. They can't afford it. We are talking about the single most important PC game ever made and VUG knows this for sure. More importantly, the VUG shareholders know.

 

[GuNzABlaZiN]

HL2 isn't delayed yet, and this 6 month thing will be a last resort if all doesn't go well for them.

 

[Alig]

Heh, VUG wont delay it 6 months..lol if they do they wont only loose christmas sales...HL2 will loose alot of people's interest, F.E.A.R will be on the shelves...STALKER will be on the shelves, GTA4 on PC will be on the shelves...believe me, they wont delay it till 2005 unless they want to loose money.

Edit/ Thats loose money, on-top of what they are already going to loose through steam + what they will loose through furious HL2 fans that will buy it through steam to spite VUG. It will never happen, not 6 months anyway..i doubt even the anger of the VUG boss over this whole steam malarky could overcome just how much more money they'd loose by delaying it out of spite.

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

frick!! this is lame. if valve just kept things how they were then all would be right with the world. i like won. i like buying games at the shops.
i dont like steam, i dont like waiting forever for a game.
valve knew they would be stirring vug up when they came up with steam.
what did they think was gonna happen? vug would say "oh thanks, we dont like money anyway! thanks for taking the pressure off us to distribute it! contract? no we dont like that silly thing anyway."

I'm going to answer these one by one. Steam is what you call revolutionary in the terms of content on demand over the internet. It allows for everyone who takes part in the production and lifecycle of a game to make money. It allows for everyone to get patches, so that you can easily get your patches integrated in your client. It allows for games to push the graphical limit further, by customizing your particular client to your computer system. So very high end features can be implmented quicker without effecting the lower end spectrum of systems. It allows for better public consumption and awareness of the mod community. A fully integrated client, and its mods, would inherently be downloaded by far more people than the old way. Thus creating a larger community for those developers whom work for free to further peoples fun, and better their development skills.

What did VALVe think was going to happen? Well, considering sierra before its demise tried to create an online system themselves, and failed incredibly, who knows. The fact remains more people will still buy the game through the retailer than through steam. If not an equal sum of people, will retail it and steam it. This isn't as damaging to vivendi as they are playing it out to be, currently. Most games are bought impulsively and not followed day to day. The reason HL2 'seems' different is because of the mere scope of the half life community. If you have 1 million out of 18 million fans posting on different boards, you start to see the fear factor of vivendi come into play.

Contract? Perhaps you shoudl read those contracts or rather court filings closely. Steam is in Vivendi and Valves contract. Obviously Valve owns their IP, and the rights to internet distrobution. So in essence its Vivendi saying, "contract no we don't like that silly thing anyways" Not Valve, but vivendi.

So while your ranting understand this. Most development contracts screw the developers out of a few things. One their IP, Two 80-85% of the margin on the game. Than around 7-10% of the developers margin which is usually 15-25% to pay for everythign that the puiblisher does. In other words all the money the publisher pays, gets paid back by the developer while the publisher still keeps a profit margin from sales, where the developers payments come from their own margin. So if the publisher pays 25 million, the game makes 250 million, the developer makes 45 million. The 25 million the publisher paid, come sout of the developers 45 million, and not the 250 million profit margin, that the puiblisher gets. So in the end the devloper gets 20 million. Now say they worked on a game for 4 years with a staff of 30 etc they have to pay their own costs. Meanwhile the publisher who did hardly anything gets for instance that whole 250 million and the developers pays off their costs. While the whole time the publishers has 100% say on what you do with your title etc etc.

I could go on for days about why publishers need oversight, and regulations, but I don't think this is the right place. Nor do i think people want to read it.

 

[XionNova]

wow. isn't this just GRAND? Why is it that the most anticipated game... that I can think of has been riddles with all kinds of unnatural delays, legal battles and greed? *sigh*

I'm seriously contemplating calling VUG and giving them a piece of mind. But then I think "they'd probably just hang up on me." ha.

And I seriously doubt people will ever lose interest in HL2. I mean, if they delayed it until 2007, I'd be really freakin mad, but when it FINALLY came out in 2007, I'd be waiting outside Gamestop an hour before it opened. But then, that's just me. Other people might be different, but I doubt it. and even if some people do lose interest, there will always be new people just learning about the world of video games that will replace the ones that say 'screw HL2'.

 

[SubKamran]

F***.

That's the only word that can convey my feelings after reading that.

 

[eQUIV]

I predict AT WORST, we'll only have to wait another 2-3 months. I also find it hard to fathom that Vivendi would be stupid enough to hold the game until after christmas. I think sometime in November is a realistic release date.

 

[axeil]

Good lord, if VUG decides to do this thing do they realize how much sales they'll lose? I bet no true half-life fan would buy the game retail if they went and did this.

VUG I hope you actually do something intelligent this time but precedent speaks against me.

 

[Blisterfish]

This can't be happening...tell me this is some kind of sick joke...

 

[Dalamari]

Dude, we have to go and protest outside VUG, a protest of anti-laziness, tell them to get their asses in gear and release the damn game.

 

[Baldrick]

Its because VU is run by the french.
They are trying to screw everybody in the ass.
(no offence to the french people on the boards )

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

Actually its americans, sorry(im american). Vivendi and VU are run by the french, VUg, is ran and based in america. So unless their parent companies are running the sub's than nah. Although everyone loves to blame the french for everything, I don't think its them this time. But VUg has a patent on digging themselves a grave to lay in. So don't put anything you consider stupid past VUg.

 

[axeil]

But its not laziness that's driving them to do this. They're just being general (creeps/jerks/insert your favorite term here) and not releasing the game to screw over Valve. But it actually screws themselves over which is why I question the intelligence of the heads at VUG. Just release the game, accept you'll lose some profit from Steam but then if you win in court make Valve pay it back.

Not that hard guys...

 

[Wesisapie]

I'm going to answer these one by one. Steam is what you call revolutionary in the terms of content on demand over the internet. It allows for everyone who takes part in the production and lifecycle of a game to make money. It allows for everyone to get patches, so that you can easily get your patches integrated in your client. It allows for games to push the graphical limit further, by customizing your particular client to your computer system. So very high end features can be implmented quicker without effecting the lower end spectrum of systems. It allows for better public consumption and awareness of the mod community. A fully integrated client, and its mods, would inherently be downloaded by far more people than the old way. Thus creating a larger community for those developers whom work for free to further peoples fun, and better their development skills.

What did VALVe think was going to happen? Well, considering sierra before its demise tried to create an online system themselves, and failed incredibly, who knows. The fact remains more people will still buy the game through the retailer than through steam. If not an equal sum of people, will retail it and steam it. This isn't as damaging to vivendi as they are playing it out to be, currently. Most games are bought impulsively and not followed day to day. The reason HL2 'seems' different is because of the mere scope of the half life community. If you have 1 million out of 18 million fans posting on different boards, you start to see the fear factor of vivendi come into play.

Contract? Perhaps you shoudl read those contracts or rather court filings closely. Steam is in Vivendi and Valves contract. Obviously Valve owns their IP, and the rights to internet distrobution. So in essence its Vivendi saying, "contract no we don't like that silly thing anyways" Not Valve, but vivendi.

So while your ranting understand this. Most development contracts screw the developers out of a few things. One their IP, Two 80-85% of the margin on the game. Than around 7-10% of the developers margin which is usually 15-25% to pay for everythign that the puiblisher does. In other words all the money the publisher pays, gets paid back by the developer while the publisher still keeps a profit margin from sales, where the developers payments come from their own margin. So if the publisher pays 25 million, the game makes 250 million, the developer makes 45 million. The 25 million the publisher paid, come sout of the developers 45 million, and not the 250 million profit margin, that the puiblisher gets. So in the end the devloper gets 20 million. Now say they worked on a game for 4 years with a staff of 30 etc they have to pay their own costs. Meanwhile the publisher who did hardly anything gets for instance that whole 250 million and the developers pays off their costs. While the whole time the publishers has 100% say on what you do with your title etc etc.

I could go on for days about why publishers need oversight, and regulations, but I don't think this is the right place. Nor do i think people want to read it.

nice rant. i would answer yours one by one too, but that would take 3 months to do.
i dont care about valve's profit margins, i dont care about newbies who cant find patches on the internet by themselves. i dont care about these new buzzwords such as "content delivery system" and "revolutionary".
steam effectively cut off a large portion of the WON gaming community. i constantly hear people on other game forums asking why they cant play X game anymore, and what this steam thing is that everyone is talking about. 56kers have also been locked out of the valve gaming arena.

the rest of your post; too long didnt read.

however, im not concerned about the facts and figures, i am but a gamer, i want to play as good a game as possible, as soon as possible.
this is not happening at current.

 

[Kadayi]

This means that VUG could hold off on releasing HL2 for up to six months.

Technically they could, but unlikely judging by their financial report for the last quarter:-

http://www.vivendiuniversal.com/vu/en/files/PR040914Resultats .pdf

The games division is presently running at a significant loss.
Delaying the release of HL² for 6 months in the hope of gaining some concessions that can be adjudicated on post release makes little sense. It is also interesting to note that they replaced the games divisions management team at the beginnning of the year. If those guys want to keep their jobs they best be making a profit.

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

nice rant. i would answer yours one by one too, but that would take 3 months to do.
i dont care about valve's profit margins, i dont care about newbies who cant find patches on the internet by themselves. i dont care about these new buzzwords such as "content delivery system" and "revolutionary".
steam effectively cut off a large portion of the WON gaming community. i constantly hear people on other game forums asking why they cant play X game anymore, and what this steam thing is that everyone is talking about. 56kers have also been locked out of the valve gaming arena.

the rest of your post; too long didnt read.

however, im not concerned about the facts and figures, i am but a gamer, i want to play as good a game as possible, as soon as possible.
this is not happening at current.

Em, i play on 56k all the time. Understand that even if steam had not been released, this would not happen. It is VUg's intentions to get the IP for hl/hl2 and so forth. Steam was only the loophole for them to try and do it. Had steam not been around, they would have used other loopholes by which to do it.

 

[Radeon]

This sux, i relly do hate vivendi!!!

If this goes to far i think we all should send crap email to vivendi, ping their servers and crash their network

 

[The Lost EVA]

Apparently a friend of mine on another forum has said he tracked down some loose info tonight that VU has sent out messages to the biggest Gaming Stores in the US and UK (i.e. EB and Gamestop and others) that VU has said don't expect HL2 to ship in 2004. I will ask him where he got this loose info from, remeber take it with a grain of salt but this guy is somewhat reliable in digging up memoes like this.

 

[SidewinderX]

Actually, unlike most of you say, VUG could stand to gain alot by holding onto it, if they win the lawsuit. If.

but, hopefully they won't.

 

[cadaveca]

the whole court case is based on valve moves in letting us know about the production cycle....
look at it this way...
vivendi knows the game is going to RC soon. they set release date for november. Valve pipe up later and say "it'll be done september". uh-oh.
vivendi is the publisher, as by being so, has within six months from the RC being final to put it on the shelves. Valve is FORCING vivendi to release early, against all thier planning(like say, a release at the same time as other popular games. maybe vivendi WANTED HL2 to go up agaiinst Halo2, know that the fanbase for hl2 is larger, and that even such an event won't upset, hl2 sales, but might screw m$ over on some sales). This whole process, vivendi claims, may push more users to buy online, and not retail, where vivendi does not get a cut, and therein lays the problem: it is almost like valve is trying to screw vivendi out of some cash(not that i believe this) Vivendi, naturally, are a little pissed...

this is just one aspect of the case that has come out...anyone in the town that the case is happening in should go down to the courthouse and get a copy of the disposition, which should be available to the public. Once you read the full thing, the situation becomes more clear. Vivendi WILL release the game soon....but we gotta wait for a Gold situation first, and by the cs:s update, the rc process may not be complete.

 

[Kadayi]

Em, i play on 56k all the time. Understand that even if steam had not been released, this would not happen. It is VUg's intentions to get the IP for hl/hl2 and so forth. Steam was only the loophole for them to try and do it. Had steam not been around, they would have used other loopholes by which to do it.

If Vivendi placed any real value on the IP they would of never given it back to Valve in the first place. They could of passed the IP onto another development house like Gearbox to produce HL² for them. All this legal stuff is merely about VUg getting a stake of the steam sales.

 

[cadaveca]

Actually, unlike most of you say, VUG could stand to gain alot by holding onto it, if they win the lawsuit. If.

but, hopefully they won't.

wow! someone with brains!

 

[Ghost Freeman]

All I can say is this game needs to get released. I'm getting tired of it just listening to this legal drama. I don't like VU but i'm not going to stand in support of Valve either until I hear both sides of the story.

 

[killahsin-[CE]]

If Vivendi placed any real value on the IP they would of never given it back to Valve in the first place. They could of passed the IP onto another development house like Gearbox to produce HL² for them. All this legal stuff is merely about VUg getting a stake of the steam sales.

They didn't sierra did. The reason they do now is because of the outside money valve is making on the IP technology, which it seems like VUg now wants a piece in. Sales isn't where the big money comes from its the engine technology liscenses.

 

[Kadayi]

Actually, unlike most of you say, VUG could stand to gain alot by holding onto it, if they win the lawsuit. If.

but, hopefully they won't.

They can gain the same, post release though. HL² is so high up on the hype meter that even if 20% of the sales were via steam (which I doubt) VUg are still going to make a substantial profit on the retail sales, with the potential to gain more via damages from the result of the Court case if the judgement goes in their favour. Either way they are making a profit, especially now that the competition is quiet at present.

 

[Kadayi]

They didn't sierra did. The reason they do now is because of the outside money valve is making on the IP technology, which it seems like VUg now wants a piece in. Sales isn't where the big money comes from its the engine technology liscenses.

The intellectual property isn't the technology, the Source engine is Valve's. The IP is the halflife storyline and characters etc.

 

[Kadayi]

Led by CEO Bruce Hack, VU Games is organized and managed along geographic lines: North America is headed by Luc Vanhal, President & COO, North America; and International, comprised of all regions outside North America, is headed by Christophe Ramboz, President & COO, International.

I'm quite sure someone on this forum is capable of discovering at least one of these gentlemens email addresses. Perhaps then we might seek some clarification from them?

 

[FoxDie]

Whoa, triple post :rolling:

 

[croperz]

How about someone sets up a petition, I'm sure there would be thousands of people willing to sign against HL2 being held back.

 

[Mr. Redundant]

jesus, this never ends, its one thing after another :frown:

heh
you know, I come off as so very negative all the time, saying that valve continually screw up and miss dates/whatever... but in all honesty no matter how I feel theres been a part of me saying "well yeah its bad, but after this its gonna be released for sure"

and then something else happens... I hate being pessimistic and right.

Led by CEO Bruce Hack, VU Games is organized and managed along geographic lines: North America is headed by Luc Vanhal, President & COO, North America; and International, comprised of all regions outside North America, is headed by Christophe Ramboz, President & COO, International.

I'm quite sure someone on this forum is capable of discovering at least one of these gentlemens email addresses. Perhaps then we might seek some clarification from them?

if they arent answering gamestop, chances are they arent answering anyone.

DAMN HACKERS!!!! (ok that was a sad pun)

 

[rkef]

Led by CEO Bruce Hack, VU Games is organized and managed along geographic lines: North America is headed by Luc Vanhal ...

Not that I think spamming these people will help anything, but are you sure Mr Vanhal still works for VUG?

Note: That was "POSTED: 04/13/04 06:26PM PST", though Gamespot (confusingly) puts today's date just above its headlines, when you search for a story.

 

[Doombringer]

VU will want to get HL2 out the door as soon as possible. Holding onto it doesn't make any sense.

If they release it now, they'll save face. Their public image won't be nearly as bad as it would be if they kept it for 6 months. Also, if it is released now, there will be holiday sales for Xmas 2004.

I'm sure VU gets a share of Valve's profit off this game whether it is sold through Steam or not. Maybe VU's cut doesn't come out of each Steam purchase, but I bet they're making SOMETHING back.

 

[Hyperion2010]

If VU holds on to HL2 for any longer than is ABSOLUTELY nessasary, they are the stupidest company ever. And, I will not support their flaming piles of crap shit etc.

 

[Kadayi]

Not that I think spamming these people will help anything, but are you sure Mr Vanhal still works for VUG?

Note: That was "POSTED: 04/13/04 06:26PM PST", though Gamespot (confusingly) puts today's date just above its headlines, when you search for a story.

LOL I took the information of the VUgames website (shows how often they update....)

Edit: I was thinking more we email the guy and interview him than spam him senseless (although that might work pretty good as well...)

 

[mdk30]

I say that when the game gets released (whenever that may be) everyone boycotts the retail version and just downloads it off of Steam if for nothing more than to put VU out of business. If HL2 gets delayed because of this Vivendi BS I don't think there will be a company I'll hate more than them. ROT IN HELL VU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Kadayi]

I say that when the game gets released (whenever that may be) everyone boycotts the retail version and just downloads it off of Steam if for nothing more than to put VU out of business. If HL2 gets delayed because of this Vivendi BS I don't think there will be a company I'll hate more than them. ROT IN HELL VU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude

Vivendi haven't done anything yet. The article is just stating what they 'could' do...although only if their CEO was a complete retard.

 

[mdk30]

Dude

Vivendi haven't done anything yet. The article is just stating what they 'could' do...although only if their CEO was a complete retard.

The article also seems to indicate that VU is trying to claim that they have exclusive rights to the Half-Life franchise, I think that's BS too and even if the game ISN'T delayed any more than it already has been, Vivendi is a POS for even threatening to delay it as a "bargaining tool." They just sound like a terrible publisher to me already and I'd rather see all of the money that HL2 brings in go right back into the company that's actually MAKING IT in the first place. So anyway, my first comment still stands, ROT IN HELL VU!

 

[DrEvil]

If VUG does delay the game as a bargaining strategy, I'll buy hl2 through Steam.

 

[Wesisapie]

if it gets delayed past 2004 i'll be watching isonews pretty closely waiting for an RC to get leaked

 

[<RJMC>]

if VUgames delay the game six months....I WILL PUT A BOMB ON THEYR BUILDING!!