WikiLeaks informer revealed; US military analyst

You need to look up what straw man means or you need to develop a better reading comprehension.

I know what you said, I practically quoted you. I am point out to you that your claim that it is likely that security is being compromised is coming out of your ass because you have nothing to support that claim.

And I don't remember people from a forum that posted years back, I have more important things on my mind. So sorry that I don't remember you, were you always this annoying?
 
Solaris said:
King of the politics forum, that sounds fun, maybe we should have an election!
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You don't elect a king silly. I wanna say lets base it on who has the most firepower but I'd think I'd lose that title to Gunner. But I'll find a way to take the throne.
 
Well I vote Stern either way.

Maybe straw man #2 was taking it a bit far, sure, but you did intentionally ignore parts of my post and call me a troll for it. It's not a jump in the dark to say that documents deemed confidential have the possibility of compromising national security if leaked, is it?

oh no, it is, because that means you can get all angry and stomp your feet
 
See, if you had just left that last line out of your reply it would have been a perfectly good post, instead you made it all douchey.

I didn't ignore anything you said. Yes, the possibility is there that they compromise national security, but that's not what you said. You said it is likely that they compromise national security, which you have nothing to back up that claim. The apache video this guy leaked as well as the Afghanistan bombing did not compromise national security, they simply exposed government cover ups. So there is a chance that these other documents do the same. As there is a chance that they compromise national security. Neither of us know, so stop pretending that you know which one is more likely, you don't.

Also Stern hasn't been around politics very much lately it seems to me. Maybe his poor old man heart can't take it anymore.
 
No Limit said:
I've been making strawman arguments literally for years and years? WTF are you talking about brah? But I didn't know I had a fan, kind of scary.

Yes, it seems difficult to determine that because we have no clue what is in those documents. And until we know or until someone that has them says if they compromise national security you are just talking out of your ass. So you might be better off trolling somewhere else, make some more dumb threads in the lounge if you must.
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It's right here. One of the key parts of the article.
Lamo has contributed funds to Wikileaks in the past, and says he agonized over the decision to expose Manning — he says he’s frequently contacted by hackers who want to talk about their adventures, and he has never considered reporting anyone before. The supposed diplomatic cable leak, however, made him believe Manning’s actions were genuinely dangerous to U.S. national security.
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“I wouldn’t have done this [turned him in] if lives weren’t in danger,”

That's good enough of a confirmation that we'll ever get. And good enough for me.
 
You don't know his motivations, he could be lying or he could be telling the truth. We don't know. I would like to know what wikileaks has to say. The government could also come out and explain why those documents compromise national security without getting in to details. They could tell us if they expose undercover CIA agents, operational plans, etc. But the government hasn't commented as far as I know.

What I do know is classified intelligence that would truly kill americans if exposed would probably not be handled by a 22 year old analyst in the army who's couldn't have been in the service for more than 3-4 years. Clearance is not a simple matter in any kind of work with classified materials and for the really top secret stuff decades of service might be required. So I would not be shocked if this was government just trying to cover it's own ass.
 
Hillary Clinton, and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one morning, and find an entire repository of classified foreign policy is available, in searchable format, to the public,” Manning wrote.
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and a previously unreported breach consisting of 260,000 classified U.S. diplomatic cables that Manning described as exposing “almost criminal political back dealings.”
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That doesn't sound like, "Joe Shmoe shot 12 kids today for no reason, lets cover it up."

It's things like contingency plans in case of war. ****ing relax. You think they have 260,000 documents on how they [Truthers]?
 
This is too easy.

The supposed diplomatic cable leak, however, made him believe Manning’s actions were genuinely dangerous to U.S. national security.
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Belief =/= Fact
 
VirusType2 said:
That doesn't sound like, "Joe Shmoe shot 12 kids today for no reason, lets cover it up."

It's things like contingency plans in case of war. ****ing relax. You think they have 260,000 documents on how they [Truthers]?
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I am relaxed. :farmer:

260,000 documents seems like a lot, it really isn't. Do you know how large the defense department is? Each employee would generate thousands of documents each year. And there are hundreds of thousands of employees.

There are countless levels involved in get security clearences and there is nothing simple about the process. They do not give classified information that could kill people if released to newbie army analysts that were on the job 3-4 years, people like him would analyze very low level intelligence. If they had an all you can eat menu to top secret information we would all be ****ed and all this information would be available to our enemies such as Al Queda without the need for wikileaks. Many people sympathize with Al Queda, many white looking people. Wouldn't be very hard for them to get a couple intelligence analysts inside the US army. So I just can't believe that he really had access to intelligence that could kill people if released.

I guess I'm not familiar with why wikileaks hasn't released the materials yet. I guess they are still looking them over.
 
Think of this: if a low level analyst decided to forgo his life and blow the whistle, just imagine what goes on up in the higher echelons of power.
 
Being honest here, I had never heard of "diplomatic cables" before until now, but I've read just a little and have the understanding that it contains all communications between other countries. Every thing said, transmitted through any means.

So that would be god damn embarrassing if everything was up on the internet, "hey, Russia, wanna nuke NK, lol?", etc. (I guess that would be Palin)
 
VirusType2 said:
Being honest here, I had never heard of "diplomatic cables" before until now, but I've read just a little and have the understanding that it contains all communications between other countries. Every thing said, transmitted through any means.

So that would be god damn embarrassing if everything was up on the internet, "hey, Russia, wanna nuke NK, lol?", etc. (I guess that would be Palin)
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You really think a 22 year old that's been in the military for no more than 3-4 years would have access to every singe communication ever made by any means between other countries? I highly doubt it.
 
No, I'm .. what.

I defined "diplomatic cables".

Do you understand this (Y/N)?

Erm, and anyway I was quoting the article, using "everything" loosely
Hillary Clinton, and several thousand diplomats around the world are going to have a heart attack when they wake up one morning, and find an entire repository of classified foreign policy is available, in searchable format, to the public,” Manning wrote.
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And anyway, anyway, 260,000 of them is a lot. How many phone calls and .. (emails?) really get made to other countries?
 
No Limit said:
Nuclear secrets and other high level classified intelligence aren't really handled by low level military analysts. None of this information he released compromises our national security, the reason those videos were classified was because politicians wanted to cover their own asses from obvious crimes.

Like I said, I wouldn't make any judgement about the 250,000 documents leaked but I bet money they are the same in nature. Nothing compromising to our national security, just people covering up crimes.
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Case in point: 3 days ago, one of our guys at the Defense Ministry leaked OPLAN Contingency 7089 to North Korea - the plans for our invasion of the North and consequent Civil Defense plans if it came to that.

I'm sure that he thought it was the right thing to do, seeing as how he was a filthy communist - ideologically driven. See, there is no real distinction of right and wrong here. People will do what they think is right. The problem is, what they think is right is usually wrong.

What I do know is classified intelligence that would truly kill americans if exposed would probably not be handled by a 22 year old analyst in the army who's couldn't have been in the service for more than 3-4 years. Clearance is not a simple matter in any kind of work with classified materials and for the really top secret stuff decades of service might be required. So I would not be shocked if this was government just trying to cover it's own ass
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I think our government is fairly competent when it comes to security and secrecy, and yet a low-level worker manages to get his hands on the ****ing operational plans for the invasion of ****ing North Korea and leaks it.


Also, CLASSIFIED documents, whatever level and echelon, whatever the reason, are CLASSIFIED because they:

The purpose of classification is ostensibly to protect information from being used to damage or endanger national security. Classification formalises what constitutes a "state secret" and accords different levels of protection based on the expected damage the information might cause in the wrong hands.
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The United States Government classifies information according to the degree which the unauthorized disclosure would damage national security.
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So, what I'm trying to say is that the disclosure of state secrets is not, and should never be, up to the whims of a self-righteous individual.
 
No Limit said:
See, if you had just left that last line out of your reply it would have been a perfectly good post, instead you made it all douchey.

I didn't ignore anything you said. Yes, the possibility is there that they compromise national security, but that's not what you said. You said it is likely that they compromise national security, which you have nothing to back up that claim. The apache video this guy leaked as well as the Afghanistan bombing did not compromise national security, they simply exposed government cover ups. So there is a chance that these other documents do the same. As there is a chance that they compromise national security. Neither of us know, so stop pretending that you know which one is more likely, you don't.

Also Stern hasn't been around politics very much lately it seems to me. Maybe his poor old man heart can't take it anymore.
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Okay, okay, I'll lay off you and stop being a jerk. But I mean, you are now arguing between saying "possibly" and "likely" as if it some abyssal difference. I wouldn't have mentioned it if I didn't think the possibility was at least somewhat likely, just like you wouldn't mention:
I bet money they are the same [politicians wanted to cover their own asses from obvious crimes] in nature.
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if you didn't think it was likely. And as already pointed out, the guy who turned him in stated that he thought a national security threat might exist, too.

With a quarter of a million documents, it is a likely possibility that he didn't read most of them, which would be incredibly irresponsible. You say you bet he's trying to continue exposing coverups. Sure, but is it so pessimistic to assume it's not likely that both the guy read all 250,000 documents and that every single one of them is relevant to exposing at least one evil coverup? And if he didn't read them, is it such a big deal to wonder if he might have irresponsibly endangered anyone's well-being by releasing a ridiculous amount of confidential documents?

Not to me so much, especially not enough to call somebody a troll over it. Call me a troll for calling you a mercury drinking crazy lunatic all you want, but not for having an opinion such as this. :p
 
15357 said:
So, what I'm trying to say is that the disclosure of state secrets is not, and should never be, up to the whims of a self-righteous individual.
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What if states secrets are crimes? What if state secrets violate the very rules which the they govern not only themselves but measure others by? If state secrets are revealing the identies of individuals deep under cover, or militry plans ect., then I can understand your veiwpoint.

But this man leaked (among other things, which may or may not fall into the area above) a video depicting a gunship firing upon an ambulance making a pickup on wounded.

If a so-called "self-righteous" individual cannot leak evidence of the crimes of the state, then the state has the power to cover up anything at all-the silencing of undesirables, torture and the testing of biological and radiological weapons on unknowing or unwilling people. Hmm...I seem to recall a certain North-American government having documents leaked that indicated that it did that last one to two million of its own citizens.

To everyone who thinks that the people do not have the right to know:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2YK7pADmWU&feature=related
 
You guys keep missing the point I am making. This was a newbie 22 year old analyst that couldn't have been on the job for more than 3-4 years (possibly less than that). He did not have access to documents which could seriously compromise national security. I actually looked up the guy on wikipedia and apparently nobody turly knows if these documents he talks about were actually leaked. And if they had been again, I do not believe that they contain materials that would seriously damage us because his clearance level would not give him access to such documents.

And anyway, anyway, 260,000 of them is a lot. How many phone calls and .. (emails?) really get made to other countries?
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I generate about 2,000 emails each year at my job and countless other documents. The defense department literally has hundreds of thousands of employees. He probably didn't read all the documents but again, he would not have access to documents that seriously compromised national security.
 
elkaebee said:
the silencing of undesirables, torture and the testing of biological and radiological weapons on unknowing or unwilling people. Hmm...I seem to recall a certain North-American government having documents leaked that indicated that it did that last one to two million of its own citizens.
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Whatchu talkin' about, Willis.
 
Well, 92,000 of these documents were released this weekend. From what I read so far it looks like these were not national secrets that will damage our country. They were cover ups of crimes and other injustices our government is doing. Including killing and capturing people without trial, that the war is pretty much lost, and that we, along with Pakistan, are directly funding and supporting many elements of the Taliban.
 
wow, didn't hear that much about the war. I just thought that we were inadvertently killing civilians whenever we had the chance.

...waiting for some dbag to say "War kills people, people die, civilians die" speech
 
Like I said earlier in the thread, the guy that leaked these is probably a hero. Nothing he leaked seems to put anyone in danger, just exposes how corrupt our government is.

Review of WikiLeaks docs sees no smoking gun
Pentagon still reviewing records, but so far finds no threat to U.S. security

by Michael Isikoff National investigative correspondent
NBC News
updated 1 hour 10 minutes ago

WASHINGTON, D.C. — An ongoing Pentagon review of the massive flood of secret documents made public by the WikiLeaks website has so far found no evidence that the disclosure harmed U.S. national security or endangered American troops in the field, a Pentagon official told NBC News on Monday.

The initial Pentagon assessment is far less dramatic than initial statements from the Obama White House Sunday night after three major news organizations – The New York Times, the Guardian and Der Spiegel — published what was touted as an unprecedented “secret archive” of classified military documents relating to the war in Afghanistan. The documents appear to show, among other matters, close collaboration between elements of the Pakistani intelligence service and the Taliban — an awkward issue that U.S. intelligence officials have strenuously complained about for some time but are loath to talk about publicly.

The news organizations said they received the documents from WikiLeaks, a controversial website that specializes in soliciting and publishing sensitive government documents. No sooner did the stories appear this weekend than U.S. National Security Adviser James Jones “strongly” condemned the WikiLeaks disclosure, saying that the trove of classified documents “could put the lives of American and our partners at risk and threaten our national security.”
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38417666/ns/world_news-south_and_central_asia
 
While IMO Bradley Manning did a great thing to leak this info, regardless of legality, Julian Assange (Mr. Wikileaks) has said that Wikileaks performed a certain amount of their own sanitisation/filtering of the Afghanistan data to remove things which might jeopardise named individuals.

On a side note, the war diary leak contains approximately 91,000 files, yet the files which Manning leaked supposedly number 'millions' and relate to dealings all around the world. It sounds like Assange could be sitting on a load more red hot info, waiting to get it into a form in which it can be disseminated.
 
Thats a good point. But I heard there was a total of around 200,000. I could be wrong on that. But from what I understand they are gearing up to release more once they go through it.
 
I thought it was 2005 again when I was listening to the White House's response to the leaks yesterday, jeez. :|
 
Yup, the talking points around this remind me of when the downing street memos were released in summer of 2005. It went something like "no new information here, move along people".
 
found amongst the 90,000 documents leaked

The Canadian military is rejecting a report released by WikiLeaks that suggests four Canadian soldiers who died in September 2006 in Afghanistan were killed by friendly fire from U.S. forces.

According to an incident report filed by the U.S. military unit, 205TH RCAG (Regional Corps Advisory Group), four Canadian soldiers were killed and seven others and an interpreter were wounded on Sept. 3, 2006, when a jet dropped a bomb on a building they occupied during the second day of Operation MEDUSA.

The Canadian military reported at the time that the four soldiers died in battles with Taliban forces.
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someone's lying

http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/cbc/100726/canada/canada_wikileak_afghanistan_canada_soldiers
 
I dont think he really got any diplomat records, but is making a lot fo noise that he did for attention. He would've posted them already. He posted the chopper vid on his own website so why not those? Doesnt add up.

If wikileaks does really have them they should post them
 
They said they have 15,000 more documents they haven't released because they're blanking the names on them still.
 
If WikiLeaks are censoring themselves for the safety of the subjects of some documents, I think I may have been right earlier in this thread. :upstare: Although I clearly underestimated the good nature of WikiLeaks.
 
unozero said:
This guy should hang.
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lol the death penalty for being a middleman to someone elses whistleblowing activities? your skewed version of nationalism is so far up your ass it prevents you from thinking [strike]clearly[/strike]
 
I was going to post something condescending about how No Limit doesn't know anything about the intelligence community and that all of his assumptions are based on speculation, but he has a point. Damn.
 
Well, you don't know what any analyst does or does not know. Military analysts work all over the world, and depending on how good they are at networking in social circles, what jobs they are doing, and quite a few other factors, they really could go about knowing quite a bit of information that they shouldn't necessarily know. Like our good friend on the front page.

Is it probable that anything disastrous could happen because of a low-level analyst? The chances, as you said, are really really slim. But then again, there's that guy on the front page.
 
Yeah, but it turns out he was getting information he didn't actually have legal access to. My point was the government doesn't give that kind of access to people that have been in the military for a couple of years.
 
This is exactly why we no longer hear the yell of "GO USA" without being in the company of idiots.
 
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