Gabe Newell reveals E3 Surprise

[Sheepo]

Plot and Mysteries: I'm not sure what 'answers' you're looking for. I agree about the GMan, it just sounded to me like you actually expected some detail or explanation of his existence. Disregarding that, I see nothing left to be asked, other than the obvious continuation of the plot, the Borealis, Aperture Science, and the like. Which leads me to my next point: Half Life is not work. Though it wasn't precisely what Stigmata meant, the journey is the reward. Not that 'rewards' aren't given in terms of climaxes, spectacles, accomplishments, answers. In HL2 you cripple the combine's hold on the world. In Episode 1 you hold off the destruction of City 17, thereby saving thousands, and escape the city yourself. In Episode 2 you deliver information to White Forest which prevent a massive combine invasion and get ready to deliver destroy a mysterious power in the arctic. I don't know what stimuli you need to feel like you're doing something, but I have no trouble.

Episode 2 Climax: Well I was referring to Ace when I talked about the other games' climaxes. You actually bring up a good point: You don't actually have to struggle for shit. If you retreat close to the base (where the siren goes off) you can kill pretty much all the striders without moving from a magnusson spawn. It's actually pretty clever of Valve, because even though the striders may get closer and closer to the base and the overwhelming feeling of impending doom gets stronger, you're never really in much danger at all. But I have no idea why you'd bother caring that you don't have to kill the hunters (although they always do take out my strider buster in mid air, atleast if there's two or more of them, I don't know how you avoid that) or that you can break it down to series of simple actions repeated several times. I'm sure there's a magic way to beat it using one hand, taking no damage, and leaving 70% of your enemies alive. But then, you could just play it the way that game's intended. Because it's intense and fun and satisfying as shit.

Episode 1: Haha, puzzle solving and platforming, right. I'm sure there are some things I simply don't remember (first two chapters have a tendency to blur together because everything looks and plays the same), but are you referring to picking up orbs and shooting at plugs? Really?

 

[Viperidae]

I can't help feeling that I deserve all the shit I'm taking from the Combine and aliens in HL2. After all, I spend the games ruining their shit.

In HL1, it was simply uncalled for. Which I could sympathise with.

Also, where the hell is Samon to defend his flagship?

 

[Barnz]

You're absolutely right though, MFL. In HL1 the objective through 90% of the game is saving your own ass. Everything you do is motivated by your own survival; anything you do in that game that is beneficial to anyone else is purely coincidental. Even launching the satellite to stem the random portals wasn't done for concern over the fabric of dimensions or to contain the resonance cascade in the interest of protecting the outside world, you did it to stop headcrabs jumping in on you at random.

It's all about saving your butt until you get to the third level, where a scientist in the room gives you a task: do whatever you can to reach the Lambda Complex. Later, you find yourself in a bigger chaos, where you have to help the science team in order to stop the invasion. This again, is not a coincidence, but the way Valve tells the story. Everything you see leads you to something. You are critising the game for being a linear shooter.

The moment you finally make it inside Lambda complex is the beginning of Gordon's character descent into go-to boy for everyone and their scientist father. You know at that point where the Lambda scientist says, "Of course, you owe us nothing, Mr. Freeman," you should just turn the game off right then and there, because you're damn right I don't owe you anything. I love Xen, Xen's a beautiful place, but for the context of Freeman's story he should've just told those scientists and that security guard to sod off.

Maybe then he wouldn't have to drive around everywhere at everyone's beck and call 20 years later.

Let's take a look at the ending. Gordon, through his adventures, eventually turns into an iconic hero, much like Sarah Connor in the Terminator series. It's simple: Gordon is special, he is the hero. He is there to save the day, because he (you) can. You must go there, and stop the big, badass, mean alien mother****er.

Half-Life 2 on the other hand, is a totally different case. You can't compare it with Half-Life, and it's expansions.

Haha, because the G-man is really so important. You know, I don't give two shits about the G-man any more. You know what the G-man is? A cheap deus ex machina disguised as a "mystery" that everyone's long since stopped giving a shit about. There are answers I want that are only tangentially related to the G-man that I'm not getting.

Looks like you do. Again, it's all about Gordon, not the character, but you, your experience through the game. You will never get an answer.

The point is, I don't feel like I'm getting anything for going through these games. I get scenery. I've said before, the reward doesn't need to be answers. Give me a boss fight so that when I defeat it I feel like a badass. Stop giving me striders and gunships and hunter choppers. They aren't challenging and they don't make me feel anything. They are a slightly tougher cannon fodder mook.

Oh boy, driving around the map picking up ammo and one-shot'ing striders! You realize you can ignore those little shits the hunters, right? They are of absolutely no consequence. So that whole final battle is just "drive around, get strider buster ammo, kill striders before they use singularity cannon. Lather, rinse, repeat."

Remember the rooms where you pick shitload of items to prepare yourself for the next area. Guess what, it wasn't fun. It was mindless. It was like "go **** the alien, and watch the end movie". Hell, I wouldn't care if they go with a Blue Shift style ending.

Undue Alarm and Direct Intervention were the Lambda Core of the Half-Life 2 games.

Undue Alarm (and Direct Intervention) is not Lambda Complex. It's Xen simplified with user friendly puzzles. It's all alien architecture, something the human mind is not familiar with. They are both great chapters, and they make you feel good for seeing more of the Citadel.

Sounds like you are paying Valve to learn who G-Man is, which is sad. Why not sleep with Laidlaw? Perhaps, you can get more clear answers from his mouth.

 

[Sheepo]

I can't help feeling that I deserve all the shit I'm taking from the Combine and aliens in HL2. After all, I spend the games ruining their shit.

In HL1, it was simply uncalled for. Which I could sympathise with.

Also, where the hell is Samon to defend his flagship?

A) The destruction of their shit is pretty justified given that their every encounter with you is an attempted assassination.

B) An enemy who has understandable motives you can sympathize with; too deep for you?

 

[Darkside55]

I'm not sure what 'answers' you're looking for

The biggest answer I want at this point is: "What was bartered for my services?" I don't have to know who the G-man is, I don't have to know who he's working for or the goal he's working towards (if any). I just want to know what was traded in order to get me out of stasis. And perhaps the single, solitary person who was willing to divulge the answer had the inside of his dome turned into a slushee by an alien.

There's some other niggling things, like clarification on the ultimate fate of Dr. Breen.

Not that 'rewards' aren't given in terms of climaxes, spectacles, accomplishments, answers. In HL2 you cripple the combine's hold on the world. In Episode 1 you hold off the destruction of City 17, thereby saving thousands, and escape the city yourself. In Episode 2 you deliver information to White Forest which prevent a massive combine invasion and get ready to deliver destroy a mysterious power in the arctic. I don't know what stimuli you need to feel like you're doing something, but I have no trouble.

At the end of HL2, you don't see the immediate effect of your actions. During Anticitzen One and Follow Freeman, you see the resistance against the Combine ramping up and you're taking them on with your little squad, and you can tell the conflict is building to a head--though, and perhaps this is just me, I felt strangely detached from the rest of the resistance--but once you actually tackle the citadel you don't see the immediate consequences. There's an explosion, at which point you're whisked away and given (what was then thought of as) the biggest cliffhanger of all time.

In Episode 1 you awake only as the citadel's going super critical. I imagine that, in the wake of the top of the citadel exploding, there was much cheering from the resistance and elation from the citizens, but did I see any of that? No. I wake up and there's more problems. At the end of Ep1, you manage to save some people (I doubt it was "thousands," Sheepo) but you know what you get? A big ass explosion throws you.

Wake up again, now you've gotta fight off more of the same baddies just in new locales, culminating in a big "showdown" and at the end of that everyone looks all tired and drained and the guy who was going to give you answers dies. You end the game TO A WOMAN CRYING.

You know if you look at it, HL2 and its episodes should be subtitled "Freeman's Depressing Adventures."

If you want to know what kind of stimuli I'm looking for, PICK ANYTHING FROM HALF-LIFE 1. Anything. That whole game was designed to make you feel like you were doing cool shit from the getgo. Compare:

Half-Life 1:
"Goddamn look at this massive tentacle! I gotta be quiet 'cause the slightest movement willOH MY GOD IT JUST TORE THROUGH THE GLASS AND KILLED THAT GUY oh jesus how do I kill this thing? Gotta run through these sections turning on the oxygen, fuel, and the generator and blast this sucker. HELL YES I FRIED THAT THING I AM AWESOME."

Half-Life 2:
"I've got a rocket launcher and I've just gotta...I fire it and swirl it around at this gunship and shoot it in the head. Ok."

Half-Life 1:
"OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT THIS BIG BLUE BASTARD IS BEHIND ME OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT"

Half-Life 2 episode 1:
"I've got a rocket launcher and I've just gotta...I fire it and swirl it around this gunshiHEY WAIT A MINUTE!"

Half-Life 1:
"Come on then you giant walking testicle! You want a piece of me? Whap, crack your little babies, get that shit outta here! Yeah you better run!"

Half-Life 2 episode 2:
"I drive around, pick up some ammo. Then I fire it at these walking tanks I've fought in the past three games a bunch of times before. Boy I remember watching the E3 videos thinking how cool these things were with their inverse kinetics, but now they're just a big nuisance. Now I shoot this hax device at them and give it one shot with a pistol and they asplode. Oh, hooray. I have saved the day. Go me. *Yawn*"

And even though there are NPCs around to praise me I don't feel like I've done a damn thing. Compare to Half-Life where there really wasn't anyone around to TELL you how badass you just were, it was something you felt inside. Now you've got all these people like "Great job, Gordon!" "You're my hero, Gordon!" "Now that the suppression field is lifted I want you to impregnate me and further the human race, Gordon!" and it's like all these people are up on my nuts when I didn't even do much. I ran through some tunnels and killed some bugs. Then I threw a hunter chopper's bombs back at it for the umpteenth time. Like I said in my last post, the only time I felt like I did something cool was slowing down the detonation of the citadel's reactor.

Aside from that I don't feel like I'm reaping any "spectacles, accomplishments, and answers."

Because it's intense and fun and satisfying as shit.

There was absolutely nothing "intense" about that battle. Actually, barring the very first time you ever saw a strider in HL2, the very first time, there has never been a feeling of tension when a strider or group of striders show up onscreen. Fighting them for the eleventy-millionth time as a "boss" battle, even when there are scores of them and you have to drive around like a doof trying to defend your base, it's a completely half-lidded affair.

Episode 1: Haha, puzzle solving and platforming, right. I'm sure there are some things I simply don't remember (first two chapters have a tendency to blur together because everything looks and plays the same), but are you referring to picking up orbs and shooting at plugs? Really?

Crawling through corridors, jumping around while the citadel is falling apart around you, using rollermines to take out stalkers and overwatch, having to dash across the light bridge while that gravity-thing is in operation, and yes, putting the orbs in the power converters. That's a lot more Half-Life than "driving around in the forest shooting at things."

It's all about saving your butt until you get to the third level, where a scientist in the room gives you a task: do whatever you can to reach the Lambda Complex.

The only reason you're heading that way is for another way out, after the surface is blocked. Again, your survival is simply coinciding with your colleagues' goals in stopping the resonance cascade.

Undue Alarm (and Direct Intervention) is not Lambda Complex. It's Xen simplified with user friendly puzzles. It's all alien architecture, something the human mind is not familiar with.

Are you saying the human mind is more familiar with the architecture of LAMBDA COMPLEX? Lambda Complex, with the big-ass teleporter at its heart? The citadel wasn't all that alien in design; it's cold steel and angular architecture which is a lot different from floating islands, organic bounce pads, and rivers of brown slush. Comparatively the citadel isn't even close.

Sounds like you are paying Valve to learn who G-Man is, which is sad.

As I said to Sheepo, I really don't care. There probably isn't a satisfactory answer they could give that would please everyone anyway.

 

[Viperidae]

A) The destruction of their shit is pretty justified given that their every encounter with you is an attempted assassination.

B) An enemy who has understandable motives you can sympathize with; too deep for you?

Wat? I sympathise with Gordon in HL1, not Xen/marines.

And no, not really; the Combine did nothing to you until you showed up and were like HAY BREEN REMEMBER ME LAWL and the whole DONT MIND ME IM JUST GOIN TO START AN UPRISIN.

Also, weren't you like, 2 when HL1 came out? Too old for you?

Also, when did you become a snob? Like, really? Every post you make is dripping with holier than thouness.

 

[Sheepo]

Wat? I sympathise with Gordon in HL1, not Xen/marines.

And no, not really; the Combine did nothing to you until you showed up and were like HAY BREEN REMEMBER ME LAWL and the whole DONT MIND ME IM JUST GOIN TO START AN UPRISIN.

Also, weren't you like, 2 when HL1 came out? Too old for you?

Also, when did you become a snob? Like, really? Every post you make is dripping with holier than thouness.

a) Did I say otherwise? I got that that was the point of your post.

b) Well I mean, I suppose you could argue that Gordon is in violation of combine law or whatever, but I usually prefer for society to not open fire on and horribly beat the shit out of people whose only crime is fleeing from torture and possible death. And you can still argue that you're pretty much the never the one who starts fights with the combine.

c) I was five. Second FPS I ever played, and one of my favorites. I was never really ragging on HL1 with this post, for the record. It was mostly a half joking argument for having a somewhat more sympathetic enemy in relation to your hero.

d) I'm not sure what I said that gave you this impression. The 'too deep for you' thing is kind of an internet meme I guess. Also, can you see any flaws in a post mocking me for my age and then accusing me of having a superior attitude?

The biggest answer I want at this point is: "What was bartered for my services?" I don't have to know who the G-man is, I don't have to know who he's working for or the goal he's working towards (if any). I just want to know what was traded in order to get me out of stasis. And perhaps the single, solitary person who was willing to divulge the answer had the inside of his dome turned into a slushee by an alien.

There's some other niggling things, like clarification on the ultimate fate of Dr. Breen.

I think that qualifies as a major part of the GMan's nature. And as you said, I pretty much just consider him as a plot device that connects, controls, and bargains with the major players in HL. No, we'll probably never know what was given for your services, I think all that really matters is that you were bought out. And as for Breen, he's probably either dead, or a slug in another dimension. Couldn't care less myself.

At the end of HL2, you don't see the immediate effect of your actions. During Anticitzen One and Follow Freeman, you see the resistance against the Combine ramping up and you're taking them on with your little squad, and you can tell the conflict is building to a head--though, and perhaps this is just me, I felt strangely detached from the rest of the resistance--but once you actually tackle the citadel you don't see the immediate consequences. There's an explosion, at which point you're whisked away and given (what was then thought of as) the biggest cliffhanger of all time.

In Episode 1 you awake only as the citadel's going super critical. I imagine that, in the wake of the top of the citadel exploding, there was much cheering from the resistance and elation from the citizens, but did I see any of that? No. I wake up and there's more problems. At the end of Ep1, you manage to save some people (I doubt it was "thousands," Sheepo) but you know what you get? A big ass explosion throws you.

I think I agree with you to some degree, the effects of your actions aren't shown as well as they could be, mostly because we mostly don't directly see the impact they have on the actual people, and the handful of NPC's you do see typically do a poor job demonstrating any sort of reaction to the world around them. Now, that said, I do feel the effects of my actions with the limited things I see. The impacted environment, the disarray of the combine, the view in the distance, Alyx, the NPC's (to a low degree, as I said). I think they manage it well.

I'm not referring to Exit 17 with the 'thousands', but getting the core under control.

Wake up again, now you've gotta fight off more of the same baddies just in new locales, culminating in a big "showdown" and at the end of that everyone looks all tired and drained and the guy who was going to give you answers dies. You end the game TO A WOMAN CRYING.

You know if you look at it, HL2 and its episodes should be subtitled "Freeman's Depressing Adventures."

If you want to know what kind of stimuli I'm looking for, PICK ANYTHING FROM HALF-LIFE 1. Anything. That whole game was designed to make you feel like you were doing cool shit from the getgo. Compare:

Half-Life 1:
"Goddamn look at this massive tentacle! I gotta be quiet 'cause the slightest movement willOH MY GOD IT JUST TORE THROUGH THE GLASS AND KILLED THAT GUY oh jesus how do I kill this thing? Gotta run through these sections turning on the oxygen, fuel, and the generator and blast this sucker. HELL YES I FRIED THAT THING I AM AWESOME."

Half-Life 2:
"I've got a rocket launcher and I've just gotta...I fire it and swirl it around at this gunship and shoot it in the head. Ok."

Half-Life 1:
"OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT THIS BIG BLUE BASTARD IS BEHIND ME OH SHIT OH SHIT OH SHIT"

Half-Life 2 episode 1:
"I've got a rocket launcher and I've just gotta...I fire it and swirl it around this gunshiHEY WAIT A MINUTE!"

Half-Life 1:
"Come on then you giant walking testicle! You want a piece of me? Whap, crack your little babies, get that shit outta here! Yeah you better run!"

Half-Life 2 episode 2:
"I drive around, pick up some ammo. Then I fire it at these walking tanks I've fought in the past three games a bunch of times before. Boy I remember watching the E3 videos thinking how cool these things were with their inverse kinetics, but now they're just a big nuisance. Now I shoot this hax device at them and give it one shot with a pistol and they asplode. Oh, hooray. I have saved the day. Go me. *Yawn*"

And even though there are NPCs around to praise me I don't feel like I've done a damn thing. Compare to Half-Life where there really wasn't anyone around to TELL you how badass you just were, it was something you felt inside. Now you've got all these people like "Great job, Gordon!" "You're my hero, Gordon!" "Now that the suppression field is lifted I want you to impregnate me and further the human race, Gordon!" and it's like all these people are up on my nuts when I didn't even do much. I ran through some tunnels and killed some bugs. Then I threw a hunter chopper's bombs back at it for the umpteenth time. Like I said in my last post, the only time I felt like I did something cool was slowing down the detonation of the citadel's reactor.

Aside from that I don't feel like I'm reaping any "spectacles, accomplishments, and answers."

Your examples are pretty odd, given that I said the reason I like Episode 2 is because it improves so much in satisfying and streamlined gameplay in comparison to the previous two games. I also don't understand how you can possibly call HL 'boss fights' intense but be bored by Episode Two's climax.

Tentacle boss fight: Throw grenade at boxes. Throw grenades at tentacles. Go kill some smalltime enemies far away from tentacles. Repeat.

Garg fights: Run away from Garg. Get to higher ground. Press a button.

Gonarch fight: Shoot at Gonarch. Run away. Shoot at Gonarch. Run away. Fall into pit. Strafe while shooting at Gonarch.

I loved those fights. I loved every second. In the moment, they're absolutely fantastic (okay, maybe it's not quite that good for the Gonarch, but you get my point), and so is the Episode 2 climax. The Striders are huge, powerful, like the lumbering mechanizations of oppression, flanked by the swift, strong, merciless killers, technology and life twisted into something wrong. They're coming from every direction, determined and focused, you're watching as they advance gradually gaining territory, bringing destruction to your last hope. I dunno, that's just how it seemed to me. I don't know why you don't feel the same.

And as for the 'same enemies and weapons in new locales', that's pretty much what HL has always been. Yeah sure, you had a lot of different enemies introduced in one game in HL, but let's face it, you spent virtually all your time blasting an armed guy from ten feet away. Yeah, there were a lot of different enemies like that, the variety was there. The sequence you fought them in, the groups they came in, the environment. It's all about that. The forests, buildings, assaults, tunnels, the silo, they're all really well composed and paced. Rather than HL2 and Episode 1 which often felt either sloppily done or like a rehash of the same stuff. Also, why hate on the driving? Felt really good to me, mixed up the gameplay quite a bit, and besides, you only spend like 5 minutes actually going from Point A to Z. So anyway, lost track of trying to directly argue with your points, enjoy this rant.

 

[Blackthorn]

ITT: Darkside is amazing at games and doesn't understand why game design doesn't cater solely for his own ability.

 

[Wanted Bob]

Regarding the boss fights Sheepo, I think the problem is that nothing that new was introduced. Even by reading those descriptions you gave of each HL boss, you can tell that they are all unique, and require you to figure out how to beat them. The tentacle is the best example of this: maybe it was different for you, but it took me a while to realize its movements where sound based. Once again with the Garg, you had to scramble to the top of the tower and try to aim an artillary strike at it (which took a few tries for me) as it inched closer and closer to you while still firing.

The problem with the striders, choppers and gunships is that they are all affected by the heaviest weapons in the game, which doesnt take a very long time to try since their size indicates you need something big to take them down. Add to the fact that striders, gunships and helicopters have been in 3 consecutive games with little else added (the hunters are new, and I definitely loved them as an addition, but it didnt take much thought to figure out how to beat them), and you can see why someone like Darkside doesnt get that same feel of accomplishment from HL2 onwards.

That said, I thought that final battle did a great job at spicing things up a bit by adding some complexity to the fight.

 

[ríomhaire]

But they shouldn't have removed the combine soldiers from the hard mode version of the fight!

 

[Darkside55]

Wanted Bob hit the nail on the head: uniqueness and complexity of enemies.

Again, the problem with all the "bosses" in the HL2 line of games is that they are the same. It's repetitive and a bit of a cop out. Valve keeps reusing the same things in order to cut down on new models they need to create, and it's at the point where I can feel absolutely no excitement, fear, or wonder at these creatures. Episode 2 takes the same old things we've fought and increases their number.

What you seem to be forgetting in your descriptions of the HL bosses, Sheepo, is that they must be handled in segments and often require something more complex than "Shoot this thing until it drops," with the exception of the Gonarch. Consider that each time you fight the gunship, it is the same fight. Each time you fight the hunter chopper, you use its bombs against it. Every time you fight the strider is the same except for Ep2, when you have a weapon that kills them faster, but is still "Shoot this thing until it drops." I don't understand how anyone can feel engaged with something like that. It's completely mindless. HL, often billed as the "thinking man's shooter," has been reduced to "the shooter where a guy throws stuff at things with his gravity gun and fires rockets."

The forests, buildings, assaults, tunnels, the silo, they're all really well composed and paced.

Not really, man. There is ONE good forest area, and that's when you first fight the hunters. The place where the advisor was hiding and the ambush at the house sucked. It felt like Highway 17 all over again. Highway 17, being perhaps the worst part of HL2. Yeah, I said it.

The tunnels had four redeeming graces: the vista of at the end, G-man speech, minor puzzles, vortigaunt tearing it up. Note that "gameplay," "pacing," and "composition" aren't among its redeeming graces. I dunno, maybe placing gun turrets to deal with swarms of enemies just doesn't appeal to me, personally. And aside from the addition of the termite-like antlion workers, I've fought all these things before. I mean, did I seriously go through these tunnels to fight ANTLION GUARDS as my reward? I've already done the "dodge antlion guard until it smashes its head" dance. Putting another antlion guard into the mix doesn't make the dance any more difficult, I'm just doing the same dance with two partners at once.

I'm still really miffed that this was the perfect opportunity for myrmidont rex, the antlion king, and Valve was like, "Lol no." Fighting something that was big enough to wedge Gordon between its toes would have been a suitable end to that chapter of the game.

I think that qualifies as a major part of the GMan's nature. And as you said, I pretty much just consider him as a plot device that connects, controls, and bargains with the major players in HL. No, we'll probably never know what was given for your services, I think all that really matters is that you were bought out.

Well that's just it, we actually DON'T know if we were bought. We might've been loaned without the resistance having put anything up front. The conditions for our release might have been for something rendered in the future, after Gordon toppled the citadel. The fee might've been "accounts payable" for some expected outcome.

And yeah, it's an answer to do with the G-man, but motive rather than wanting to know things like what he is or who he works for, etc. I feel like after three games we should at least have motive. Hopefully that comes in Ep3--insert joke here--and will actually be worth it.

And as for Breen, he's probably either dead, or a slug in another dimension. Couldn't care less myself.

Heathen. You should always care about Dr. Breen.

And while those are the only two apparent outcomes for Dr. Breen, there are more questions surrounding him. Like, "Why did Breen's face flash in the background when G-man mentioned opposition to saving Alyx?"

ITT: Darkside is amazing at games and doesn't understand why game design doesn't cater solely for his own ability.

 

[Vermintide]

At first I lol'd, but it quickly turned to that kind of nervous "Uhh... He's... He's joking... Right? Guys?"

 

[Tollbooth Willie]

Who are you referring to?

 

[Vegeta897]

Adolf Hitler.

 

[Tagaziel]

Darkside IS right. HL2 sucks in term of enemy variety in Episodes. It has great and varied environments, though.

 

[Barnz]

more enemy variation doesn't make a good game. look at hl2 leak. there is a ton of enemies, they have no purpose, and their role in the game is completely pointless. they only add new enemies if they need it for their gameplay.

 

[Vegeta897]

more enemy variation doesn't make a good game. look at hl2 leak.

Yeah let's look at an unfinished, leaked alpha of a game to backup our statements.

 

[Darkside55]

more enemy variation doesn't make a good game.

Clearly the lack of variation isn't making for good games, either.

 

[Sheepo]

Says one of the two guys in this thread that didn't enjoy Episode 2.

 

[Barnz]

Yeah let's look at an unfinished, leaked alpha of a game to backup our statements.

leaked build also have completely levels. opposing force is a good example. they needed to have new enemies for their gameplay ideas, so they invented race-x. episode two is also a good example. antlion workers are basically bullsquids changed to fit valve's new style.

 

[Vegeta897]

leaked build also have completely levels.

is you english speaker

And no, HL2 leak did not have any "complete" levels by any sense. Especially because of all the things in the game that weren't complete, such as the monsters.

What I'm telling you is that the core of your argument is stupid, because it depends entirely on how good of a developer is doing it. There is no 'general rule' that more monsters = more suck. You're just speaking nonsense with the absolutely laughable evidence of a leaked alpha to back it up.

 

[Barnz]

it's a little error, do you always mock people like that?

hl2 leak had completed levels in the map pack, but that's another story. what valve does is to add new enemies if they have a place/level to use them.

I remember when people were like "where is bullsquid, and houndeye from HL1". seriously, what's the point of bringing them back? they don't have place in hl2's universe. what's it going to, throw you acid from hundred meters away? it just doesn't work. same goes for others.

 

[Vegeta897]

it's a little error, do you always mock people like that?

2 little errors actually. Yeah I do like mocking people on occasion. No need to be bothered by it.

hl2 leak had completed levels in the map pack, but that's another story. what valve does is to add new enemies if they have a place/level to use them.

I remember when people were like "where is bullsquid, and houndeye from HL1". seriously, what's the point of bringing them back? they don't have place in hl2's universe. what's it going to, throw you acid from hundred meters away? it just doesn't work. same goes for others.

So, you're picking out 2 examples of enemies that you think would have not fit into HL2, and using that to say that more enemies = more suck? Why? Just because not every possible enemy is a good idea, doesn't mean that more enemies is always a bad idea. Just like the example you gave states. So you're saying enemy variation is bad if the gameplay doesn't incorporate them properly. Well, duh. That's what makes a good game, enemies that work with the game and the level design. If Valve wanted to they could have made levels that worked really well with enemies from HL1.

I just don't really see any point to your statement. It's completely circumstantial whether or not more enemies are good or bad.

It's like saying "third person cameras in games suck" and then citing a game that executed 3rd person very poorly with a wonky camera and gameplay that didn't work well with it.

 

[Sheepo]

it's a little error, do you always mock people like that?

Yeah Vegeta, how do you live with yourself? On a completely unrelated note, has anyone here played Bioshock? I just finished it and thought that it was great!

 

[Darkside55]

Says one of the two guys in this thread that didn't enjoy Episode 2.

You mean one of the only two people in this thread who are right?

I remember when people were like "where is bullsquid, and houndeye from HL1". seriously, what's the point of bringing them back? they don't have place in hl2's universe. what's it going to, throw you acid from hundred meters away? it just doesn't work. same goes for others.

They do have a place in HL2's universe, considering a major plot point, and one of the reasons the cities have shield fences, is that these things live in the wilderness.

Also you just admitted that the antlion workers are bullsquids, and then you say "Throwing acid at you doesn't work." Wha?



Also Vegeta don't mock the guy for his grammar. Save that for native English speakers who mess up. They actually deserve it.

 

[Vegeta897]

Honestly didn't know he wasn't a native English speaker.

I thought English was the official language of Maggie Chow's Bed.

 

[Wanted Bob]

Says one of the two guys in this thread that didn't enjoy Episode 2.

If you are referring to me, not once did I say that I didnt enjoy Episode 2. To be frank, although the lack of enemy variety and complexity is a bummer after playing the first Half Life, I still love its sequel and its episodes. Just for different reasons.

EDIT: Also I'm a bit confused as to why people are arguing "variation doesnt make a good game". Thats not the argument here. The issue with variety comes from the fact that its been the same enemies for 3 games (barring the hunters).

 

[Sheepo]

I dunno Darkside, I don't know what you're looking for. I thought the tunnels, woods, silo, and driving sequences were constructed excellently. I thought the fights were well composed, the new enemies provided a fresh experience, and that the finale was the best 'boss fight' that HL has ever had. I have serious problems with HL2 and Episode 1, that's why I was so pleased with Episode 2. It provided such an excellently made, fresh experience, with excellent and new ideas, it just blew me away.

Edit: Was talking about Ace, Bob. Although I only really know that he disliked the finale.

 

[Sedako]

You'll shit bricks...

Spoiler

 

[Vegeta897]

Couldn't tell who that was for about 5 minutes. Then I saw it.

 

[Darkside55]

I dunno Darkside, I don't know what you're looking for.

I'm not looking for anything, bro. I'm just stating the truth in this thread, that's all.

*Pats Sheepo on the shoulder*

It's alright if you have bad opinions and like bad games. It's okay. You want to like them, go ahead and don't be ashamed. You've just got bad taste, that's all.

 

[Sheepo]

If you were anyone else I would probably block you right now. But you aren't. And I love you for it.

 

[Wanted Bob]

nukem pic

Ha, wouldnt THAT be the day.

 

[Blackthorn]

I'm not looking for anything, bro. I'm just stating the truth in this thread, that's all.

*Pats Sheepo on the shoulder*

It's alright if you have bad opinions and like bad games. It's okay. You want to like them, go ahead and don't be ashamed. You've just got bad taste, that's all.

How long until you make permanent residence in the inside of your own ass?

 

[Darkside55]

 

[Tyguy]

plus the driving sucks...i've always hated it and yet i have to drive everywhere.

 

[Sheepo]

Driving feels so good in Episode 2. /run over hunter

Ungh. Yeeeeeeeeees.

 

[Barnz]

So, you're picking out 2 examples of enemies that you think would have not fit into HL2, and using that to say that more enemies = more suck? long useless, text.

It's like saying "third person cameras in games suck" and then citing a game that executed 3rd person very poorly with a wonky camera and gameplay that didn't work well with it.

thanks for completely missing the point. darkside was talking about stuff like boss batles, and such enemies. I don't see how anything different than a strider/gunship would fit the episodes. what does he expect, a giant combine robot coming to destroy the rebel base? secondly, I never said "more enemies, variations = bad", so learn to read. it worked great in L4D2.

come to think of it, L4D is a good example to show what devs can do with the characters. survivors camping in a corner? spawn a spitter! are they rushing? spawn a tank. it's simple. so let's take a look at hl2...but wait, hl2 already have enough enemies to entertain the player, so why invest more time to create new ones?

has anyone here played Bioshock? I just finished it and thought that it was great!

nice try, buttface. but you can't troll a troll.

Also you just admitted that the antlion workers are bullsquids, and then you say "Throwing acid at you doesn't work." Wha?

No, I said bullsquid doesn't fit, but antlion worker does. you see, antlion worker is basically bullsquid, but better. improved.

I could go on, and say Episode Two is not great as Opposing Force, but it's a very solid game. We, players, are new to the Episodic Format, so we don't know what to expect when buying a game. Episode Two is not a full-game, AAA title, or an expansion pack. It's a short game, advancing the story using the old content, and new gameplay ideas. That's all.

 

[Sheepo]

Troll code of honor is totally arbitrary bro. Also, I just got back from watching the 1986 Transformers movie and I gotta say I think Half-Life 2: Episode 2 was way better.

 

[Vegeta897]

nice try, buttface.

Spit out my drink.