120 Days Until the Largest Tax Hikes in History

[Ridge]

In just 120 days, the largest tax hikes in the history of America will take effect. They will hit families and small businesses in three great waves on January 1, 2011:

First Wave: Expiration of 2001 and 2003 Tax Relief

In 2001 and 2003, the GOP Congress enacted several tax cuts for investors, small business owners, and families. These will all expire on January 1, 2011:

Personal income tax rates will rise. The top income tax rate will rise from 35 to 39.6 percent (this is also the rate at which two-thirds of small business profits are taxed). The lowest rate will rise from 10 to 15 percent. All the rates in between will also rise. Itemized deductions and personal exemptions will again phase out, which has the same mathematical effect as higher marginal tax rates. The full list of marginal rate hikes is below:

- The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%

- The 25% bracket rises to 28%

- The 28% bracket rises to 31%

- The 33% bracket rises to 36%

- The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

Higher taxes on marriage and family. The “marriage penalty” (narrower tax brackets for married couples) will return from the first dollar of income. The child tax credit will be cut in half from $1000 to $500 per child. The standard deduction will no longer be doubled for married couples relative to the single level. The dependent care tax credit will be cut.

The return of the Death Tax. This year, there is no death tax. For those dying on or after January 1 2011, there is a 55 percent top death tax rate on estates over $1 million. A person leaving behind two homes and a retirement account could easily pass along a death tax bill to their loved ones.

Higher tax rates on savers and investors. The top capital gains tax will rise from 15 percent this year to 20 percent in 2011. The top dividends tax rate will rise from 15 percent this year to 39.6 percent in 2011. These rates will rise another 3.8 percent in 2013.


Second Wave: Obamacare

There are over twenty new or higher taxes in Obamacare. Several will first go into effect on January 1, 2011. They include:

The Tanning Tax. This went into effect on July 1st of this year. It imposes a new, 10% excise tax on getting a tan at a tanning salon. There is no exemption for tanners making less than $250,000 per year.

The “Medicine Cabinet Tax” Thanks to Obamacare, Americans will no longer be able to use health savings account (HSA), flexible spending account (FSA), or health reimbursement (HRA) pre-tax dollars to purchase non-prescription, over-the-counter medicines (except insulin).

The HSA Withdrawal Tax Hike. This provision of Obamacare increases the additional tax on non-medical early withdrawals from an HSA from 10 to 20 percent, disadvantaging them relative to IRAs and other tax-advantaged accounts, which remain at 10 percent.

Brand Name Drug Tax. Starting next year, there will be a multi-billion dollar tax assessment imposed on name-brand drug manufacturers. This tax, like all excise taxes, will raise the price of medicine, hurting everyone.

Economic Substance Doctrine. The IRS is now empowered to disallow perfectly-legal tax deductions and maneuvers merely because it judges that the deduction or action lacks “economic substance.” This is obviously an arbitrary empowerment of IRS agents.

Employer Reporting of Health Insurance Costs on a W-2. This will start for W-2s in the 2011 tax year. While not a tax increase in itself, it makes it very easy for Congress to tax employer-provided healthcare benefits later.


Third Wave: The Alternative Minimum Tax and Employer Tax Hikes

When Americans prepare to file their tax returns in January of 2011, they’ll be in for a nasty surprise—the AMT won’t be held harmless, and many tax relief provisions will have expired. The major items include:

The AMT will ensnare over 28 million families, up from 4 million last year. According to the left-leaning Tax Policy Center, Congress’ failure to index the AMT will lead to an explosion of AMT taxpaying families—rising from 4 million last year to 28.5 million. These families will have to calculate their tax burdens twice, and pay taxes at the higher level. The AMT was created in 1969 to ensnare a handful of taxpayers.

Small business expensing will be slashed and 50% expensing will disappear. Small businesses can normally expense (rather than slowly-deduct, or “depreciate”) equipment purchases up to $250,000. This will be cut all the way down to $25,000. Larger businesses can expense half of their purchases of equipment. In January of 2011, all of it will have to be “depreciated.”

Taxes will be raised on all types of businesses. There are literally scores of tax hikes on business that will take place. The biggest is the loss of the “research and experimentation tax credit,” but there are many, many others. Combining high marginal tax rates with the loss of this tax relief will cost jobs.

Tax Benefits for Education and Teaching Reduced. The deduction for tuition and fees will not be available. Tax credits for education will be limited. Teachers will no longer be able to deduct classroom expenses. Coverdell Education Savings Accounts will be cut. Employer-provided educational assistance is curtailed. The student loan interest deduction will be disallowed for hundreds of thousands of families.

Charitable Contributions from IRAs no longer allowed. Until this year, a retired person with an IRA could contribute up to $100,000 per year directly to a charity from their IRA. This contribution also counts toward an annual “required minimum distribution.” This ability will no longer be there.


Read more: http://www.atr.org/days-thebr-largest-tax-hikes-history-a5370##ixzz0yVWZDUXP

 

[Eejit]

It's only a problem because in the US it's spent on the military and retarded ****ing wars instead of proper universal healthcare and other worthwhile programmes.

 

[ríomhaire]

You want the government to be able to fix problems (like your atrocious health and education systems) they need money. It's this or cutting the insane amounts that the military get BUT THAT WOULD MEAN YOU HATE AMERICA. YOU DON'T HATE AMERICA DO YOU?

Edit: The first part of your post can be taken seriously, the rest cannot.

"The return of the Death Tax."
It's called inheritance tax and a lot of countries have it. It may seem unfair but it's not like it's hitting poor people hard. It only covers people leaving estates worth over one million dollars, so if the family ends up owing money to the government via this tax like you say, they could sell the property and pay the government the tax from the profit.

The Tanning Tax. This went into effect on July 1st of this year. It imposes a new, 10% excise tax on getting a tan at a tanning salon. There is no exemption for tanners making less than $250,000 per year.
Was that last sentence a joke? If you can afford to be pissing away your money in tanning salons you don't need a tax break. How the hell would this even work? Bring in a form showing proof of income to the tanning salon? Are you honestly and seriously suggesting there should be a tax break to cover people who want to get a ****ing tan from a tanning salon when they can't really afford it in the first place?

I'm afraid I don't really understand some of the medical stuff. Lots of US terms I'm unfamiliar with.

Brand Name Drug Tax. Starting next year, there will be a multi-billion dollar tax assessment imposed on name-brand drug manufacturers. This tax, like all excise taxes, will raise the price of medicine, hurting everyone.
Or people could buy non-brand name drugs, which are just a good as the brand name ones but cheaper.

Economic Substance Doctrine. The IRS is now empowered to disallow perfectly-legal tax deductions and maneuvers merely because it judges that the deduction or action lacks “economic substance.” This is obviously an arbitrary empowerment of IRS agents.
Sounds like an ok power to give the tax agents to me, but to be honest this wording is so vague I can't really tell what you mean exactly. I'd ask you what this is in detail, but seeing as you copy-pasted the article from your link I assume you don't actually know and are just repeating things you read.

Again I'm not well versed enough in American tax polices to get what some of the later bits are about. Perhaps they actually have substance to them. The bits that weren't written in jargon I think are frivolous complaints.

 

[AJ Rimmer]

Gummyment need more money right now. Admittedly due mostly to their own incompetence, but hey, to fix problems you need money. Also what Riomhaire said.

 

[ríomhaire]

Well, at the moment the Democrat government are trying to fix the previous Republican government's problems and getting blamed for everything because the medicine tastes icky and I want a lollipop instead.

Christ I probably shouldn't post when I'm this grumpy.

 

[Ridge]

You want the government to be able to fix problems (like your atrocious health and education systems) they need money. It's this or cutting the insane amounts that the military get BUT THAT WOULD MEAN YOU HATE AMERICA. YOU DON'T HATE AMERICA DO YOU?

Edit: The first part of your post can be taken seriously, the rest cannot.

"The return of the Death Tax."
It's called inheritance tax and a lot of countries have it. It may seem unfair but it's not like it's hitting poor people hard. It only covers people leaving estates worth over one million dollars, so if the family ends up owing money to the government via this tax like you say, they could sell the property and pay the government the tax from the profit.

Why does the government even tax people for giving their stuff to their family?

The Tanning Tax. This went into effect on July 1st of this year. It imposes a new, 10% excise tax on getting a tan at a tanning salon. There is no exemption for tanners making less than $250,000 per year.
Was that last sentence a joke? If you can afford to be pissing away your money in tanning salons you don't need a tax break. How the hell would this even work? Bring in a form showing proof of income to the tanning salon? Are you honestly and seriously suggesting there should be a tax break to cover people who want to get a ****ing tan from a tanning salon when they can't really afford it in the first place?

It is pointing out Obama's broken promise to not raise taxes on people making less than 250k a year.

I'm afraid I don't really understand some of the medical stuff. Lots of US terms I'm unfamiliar with.

Brand Name Drug Tax. Starting next year, there will be a multi-billion dollar tax assessment imposed on name-brand drug manufacturers. This tax, like all excise taxes, will raise the price of medicine, hurting everyone.
Or people could buy non-brand name drugs, which are just a good as the brand name ones but cheaper.

Pharmaceutical companies have a stranglehold on the US. They successfully lobbied to make it so that very few drugs can be purchased by Americans from foreign companies. So all that we have left is to purchase the namebrand drugs from the big companies.

Economic Substance Doctrine. The IRS is now empowered to disallow perfectly-legal tax deductions and maneuvers merely because it judges that the deduction or action lacks “economic substance.” This is obviously an arbitrary empowerment of IRS agents.
Sounds like an ok power to give the tax agents to me, but to be honest this wording is so vague I can't really tell what you mean exactly. I'd ask you what this is in detail, but seeing as you copy-pasted the article from your link I assume you don't actually know and are just repeating things you read.

The problem IS that is is worded vaguely. It means they can raise taxes for any "necessary" reason, and can choose to not lower them because it isn't "necessary."

And forgive me for quoting the article as it was, instead of interspersing it with my opinion, which is unfair to the reader because how else where they know where the author ends and I begin?

 

[DEATHMASTER]

The use of

tags?

 

[No Limit]

Your post will only be true if Republicans block tax cuts for 98% of americans because they want to hold those 98% hostage in exchange for tax cuts for the top 2%.

Even if the republicans do block those tax cuts for 98% of us (Im sure you'll never vote republican again, amirite?) someone making 50,000 a year and paying 28% will see an increase of $125 a month (I'm using your numbers). Yes, it sucks. But hardly will that seriously affect someone making over $4,000 a month.

 

[Raziaar]

Stop calling it Obamacare.

 

[Ridge]

You post will only be true if Republicans block tax cuts for 98% of americans because they want to hold those 98% hostage in exchange for tax cuts for the top 2%.

Even if the republicans do block those tax cuts for 98% of us (Im sure you'll never vote republican again, amirite?) someone making 50,000 a year and paying 28% will see an increase of $125 a month (I'm using your numbers). Yes, it sucks. But hardly will that seriously affect someone making that kind of money.

You DO realize some of the richest families in the country have a very left stance, right?

Kennedy
Clinton
Rockefeller

 

[No Limit]

You DO realize that what you just said means absolutely nothing in the context of this conversation. Right? All those left leaning people are against extending the tax cuts for the top 2% as far as I know.

 

[Ridge]

You DO realize that what you just said means absolutely nothing in the context of this conversation. Right? All those left leaning people are against extending the tax cuts for the top 2% as far as I know.

I'm just pointing out that, according to your logic, Republicans are looking out for Democrats...

 

[No Limit]

Im just pointing out that your logic is ****ing retarded.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Ahhh, politics subforum.

 

[Ridge]

Im just pointing out that your logic is ****ing retarded.

I concede to your master debating skills, good sir.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Letting these tax hikes go into effect is going to kill any tiny bit of economic recovery that was churning up.



Luckily I got my exemption card:

Stop calling it Obamacare.

Even the left wing media refers to it now. It is easier than saying "Compulsory health insurance enrollment" and it's not a derrogatory term or slander, it's short fo the Obama pushed Healthcare law "obamacare"

I've been using "compulsory health insurance enrollment" now for a couple weeks since people here complained only to see it used in all facets of media here, regardless of their views towards it being in support or against.

So don't stop calling it what the rest of the nation does, and if they are going to make a fuss, call it what it really is "forced insurance enrollment under penalty of fines or jailtime"

 

[lord_raken]

Recovery, What recovery? This could seriously hamper our recovery, and it will probably screw Obama's chance for reelection when he fails to bring the nation out of this recession.

We have a lot of problems that need to be fixed but all the funds we need could be found in wasteful Pork, the military budget, and the black hole that is social security. This is not the time to start new programs (Obamacare). Socialized healthcare is already the LARGEST portion of the federal budget. We need to CUT spending, not RAISE taxes.

Lower taxes promote growth, higher taxes hamper growth. That is a simple Economic truth. WE F**KING NEED GROWTH!

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Recovery, What recovery? This could seriously hamper our recovery, and it will probably screw Obama's chance for reelection when he fails to bring the nation out of this recession.

We have a lot of problems that need to be fixed but all the funds we need could be found in wasteful Pork, the military budget, and the black hole that is social security. This is not the time to start new programs (Obamacare). Socialized healthcare is already the LARGEST portion of the federal budget. We need to CUT spending, not RAISE taxes.

Lower taxes promote growth, higher taxes hamper growth. That is a simple Economic truth. WE F**KING NEED GROWTH!

People dont understand that raising taxes promotes LESS revenue. If business taxes are higher, business will move elsewhere or stagnate.

 

[Ridge]

Clearly both of you are just racists

 

[Danimal]

The Obama Deception etc.

 

[Warped]

I love how some peoples argument is "stop calling it ObamaCare!"

I really think it hurts them big time because they voted for this horrible president who likes to hear himself talk a lot and ponies around like a mascot and celebrity.

Also we need to pay off debt. which means less spending. which means firing elected officials who make 10 times what the normal person makes. They should make bare minimum because god only knows they make some many deals behind closed doors anyway from contributors and lobbyists.

 

[Sparta]

You guys do realize that they a lot of Democrats are only talking about letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the top 2% right? Not middle-class people.

It's actually the Republicans who are threatening to block extensions of the Bush tax cuts on middle-class families in exchange extending to the top 2% of earners as well. They're effectively holding middle-class America hostage for the rich. And Obama will get blame for tax hikes going up, when it's the Republicans who will be the most at fault for it.

Warped, seriously, you're gonna buy into Republican propaganda about Obama being a narcissist? Really?

Next thing you know, you'll be saying Reagan was a good president.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

You guys do realize that they a lot of Democrats are only talking about letting the Bush tax cuts expire for the top 2% right? Not middle-class people.

:| :dork:

FROM THE ARTICLE:


Personal income tax rates will rise. The top income tax rate will rise from 35 to 39.6 percent (this is also the rate at which two-thirds of small business profits are taxed). The lowest rate will rise from 10 to 15 percent. All the rates in between will also rise. Itemized deductions and personal exemptions will again phase out, which has the same mathematical effect as higher marginal tax rates. The full list of marginal rate hikes is below:

- The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15%

- The 25% bracket rises to 28%

- The 28% bracket rises to 31%

- The 33% bracket rises to 36%

- The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%


-


But that's not the worst. THE REAL economy killers are little factoids such as this:


Small business expensing will be slashed and 50% expensing will disappear. Small businesses can normally expense (rather than slowly-deduct, or “depreciate”) equipment purchases up to $250,000. This will be cut all the way down to $25,000. Larger businesses can expense half of their purchases of equipment. In January of 2011, all of it will have to be “depreciated.”

 

[Dynasty]

'"Cause Im young and Im black and my hat's real low, do I look like a mind-reader sir, I dont know.''

Opening up the racist door in this part of forum I see.

 

[Sparta]

You're joking right? 3-5% for most of those earning under 350,000? That's how America will collapse? Really? That's not a big tax increase

You guys also know that Americans for Tax Reform is actually a conservative front? They are not exactly an unbiased and trustworthy source

Shortly after Bill Clinton's 1992 election, ATR headquarters became the site of a weekly, off-the-record get-together of conservatives to coordinate activities and strategy. The "Wednesday Meeting" of the Leave Us Alone Coalition soon became an important hub of conservative political organizing. Participants each week include Republican congressional leaders, right-leaning think tanks, conservative advocacy groups and K Street lobbyists. George W. Bush began sending a representative to the Wednesday Meeting even before he formally announced his candidacy for president in 1999, and continued to send representatives after his election in 2000.[8]

They're basically the group that helped start the neo-con propaganda outfit. Yeah. Trustworthy people. It's not lie they've ever lied before.

And the term "small businesses" coming out of a neo-conservative hive-mind outfit basically means "business". It's not families running a Mom and Pop store on the corner of Hill Valley. It's businesses that are making millions a year. This is misleading propaganda.

 

[unozero]

Rakurai can't be racist-he's not white.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

You're joking right? 3-5% for most of those earning under 350,000? That's how America will collapse? Really? That's not a big tax increase

That's a lot. It means a lot of people who are expecting a refund are going to owe money. I don't think you understand the general concept for how that's going to devastate the economy- people will stop spending. It's also funny how your line went from "no tax increases under 250,000!" to "its just a 5% hike!" Lie after lie from the administration. This is NOT a "little bit" and it is a big tax hike.

You guys also know that Americans for Tax Reform is actually a conservative front? They are not exactly an unbiased and trustworthy source

They're basically the group that helped start the neo-con propaganda outfit. Yeah. Trustworthy people. It's not lie they've ever lied before.

I tend to verify source information and statistics, rather than checking the name of where something came from and going "OH LOL, its from them."

You should try doing the same, particularly for these numbers. All sources are cited.

Rather than spending your time looking up on wikipedia the website and the group, try to look up the stats on this issue. It's about time people start focusing on WHAT is being said rather than WHO is saying it or WHY. If WHAT they say holds no merit on its own, that should be enough to put it to rest on their own.

And the term "small businesses" coming out of a neo-conservative hive-mind outfit basically means "business". It's not families running a Mom and Pop store on the corner of Hill Valley. It's businesses that are making millions a year. This is misleading propaganda.

If you are only churning a couple hundred thousand to a couple million a year in revenue, it's a small business. Small business doesn't just refer to "mom and pop" or "uncle dans book store." Mom and pop tend to be SERVICE businesses that serve a small clientelle. I am referring to industry and heavy commercial office. You're thinking of businesses like local florists, bakeries, furniture repair, etc as only small business. This isnt even what most business minded/financial people are referring to when they say "small business." They're referring to industrial or manufacturing.

If you understand how most business relationships work, there are vendors, small companies, thousands and thousands of them who make this world turn. For every thing you hanlde in life, about 50 companies were involved. From selling and buying the SCREWS that hold things together, shipping them, hauling them (not counted as shipping) manufacturing them, assembling them. These are all companies that arent "mom and dad baking cakes in a bakery" but definately are not mega corporations and should be classified as "small business" even though they do millions in business each year. You hit that in our economy and you grind it to a screeching halt, and put millions further out of work.

I worked for a mega corporation, and personally handled business with many, many vendors. Like I said, to you these companies would be classified as "big" because they do business in the millions. They are not. You are not big until you do business in the billions. Millions with an M is small time buddy.

"Mom and Pop's Bakery" employers are almost negligible in terms of employment and economic effect. They're great for culture and the feel of a hometown. But we're talking about real economic movers and shakers here- REAL small business that actually affect other LARGE businesses.

Rakurai can't be racist-he's not white.

I'm white and brown. And anyone can be racist (but i get what you're saying- lots of liberals ignore non white racism)

But WTF how does race factor at ALL into this thread?!

 

[Sparta]

That's a lot. It means a lot of people who are expecting a refund are going to owe money. I don't think you understand the general concept for how that's going to devastate the economy- people will stop spending. It's also funny how your line went from "no tax increases under 250,000!" to "its just a 5% hike!" Lie after lie from the administration. This is NOT a "little bit" and it is a big tax hike.

Actually, it's not. Not at all. Taxes for the lower and middle class were higher under Reagan and Clinton and under Obama, the tax rate will simply return to what it was under Clinton.

Here is Obama's proposed tax brackets, the first three of which, will more likely not rise.

- The 10% bracket rises to an expanded 15% May not rise

- The 25% bracket rises to 28% May not rise

- The 28% bracket rises to 31% May not rise

- The 33% bracket rises to 36%

- The 35% bracket rises to 39.6%

Here were Clinton's tax brackets

15%
28%
31%
36%
39.6%

And here were Reagan's much more complicated system.

Married Filing Jointly
Marginal Tax Brackets
Tax Rate Over But Not Over
0.0% $0 $3,670
11.0% $3,670 $5,940
12.0% $5,940 $8,200
14.0% $8,200 $12,840
16.0% $12,840 $17,270
18.0% $17,270 $21,800
22.0% $21,800 $26,550
25.0% $26,550 $32,270
28.0% $32,270 $37,980
33.0% $37,980 $49,420
38.0% $49,420 $64,750
42.0% $64,750 $92,370
45.0% $92,370 $118,050
49.0% $118,050 $175,250
50.0% $175,250 -

Like I said, these tax hikes are only taking effect if they repeal the Bush tax cuts on the middle class. All you did was quote ATR, who are referring to the tax hikes that'll take place at the end of the year if those Bush tax cuts on the middle-class expire, when most of the Democrats are not going to let me expire because of the economy and the unemployment rate.

I tend to verify source information and statistics, rather than checking the name of where something came from and going "OH LOL, its from them."

You should try doing the same, particularly for these numbers. All sources are cited.

Rather than spending your time looking up on wikipedia the website and the group, try to look up the stats on this issue. It's about time people start focusing on WHAT is being said rather than WHO is saying it or WHY. If WHAT they say holds no merit on its own, that should be enough to put it to rest on their own.

Except when the same people who are telling Republicans in office to extend the tax cuts on the rich are the same the people who have giving no other alternative to those tax cuts to increase revenue/decrease the deficit. Instead they're getting together with them, telling them Americans hate taxes so they should pledge to cut them, and then just ignore the 900 billion dollars of lost revenue over ten years. If they really are for sound tax policy, then what the hell do you call that?

If you are only churning a couple hundred thousand to a couple million a year in revenue, it's a small business. Small business doesn't just refer to "mom and pop" or "uncle dans book store." Mom and pop tend to be SERVICE businesses that serve a small clientelle. I am referring to industry and heavy commercial office. You're thinking of businesses like local florists, bakeries, furniture repair, etc as only small business. This isnt even what most business minded/financial people are referring to when they say "small business." They're referring to industrial or manufacturing.

And it's still bollocks, since not only is "small business" a term deliberately used to appeal to the middle-class who run those mom-and-pop stores, it's always used to push tax cuts on the rich which have little to no benefit for the middle-class. Instead, it's a term used to fool the middle-class people like you and me into voting for benefits and tax cuts for the rich business owners.

Small businesses etc etc

And you know who you have to thank for that bit about small business expensing being slashed? Well guess what? The Obama administration tried to pass a senate bill that would have fixed that, along with providing $30 billion in loans to small independent banks on the provision of contributing to small businesses. Guess who blocked it?

WASHINGTON — Senate Republicans on Thursday (29th of July) rejected a bill to aid small businesses with expanded loan programs and tax breaks

With 60 votes needed to advance the legislation, the tally was 58 to 42, with Democrats unanimously in favor and Republicans all opposed.

The very people who are going to reward with votes in November for Obama's perceived failings to help small businesses. The same people who are taking advice from Americans for Tax Reform.

You can't blame Obama and the Democrats for something the Republicans deliberately opposed simply because they wanted them to look bad. That's like witnessing someone murder someone else, and then believing the murderer when they said they didn't do it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2822975420100728
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/us/politics/30cong.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

I'm white and brown. And anyone can be racist (but i get what you're saying- lots of liberals ignore non white racism)

But WTF how does race factor at ALL into this thread?!

Somebody brought up racism as a joke, because you guys oppose the Obama administration "so we must be racist then herp derp derp". I think Xdrive started that. He was a piece of shit.

 

[Qonfused]

Im just pointing out that your logic is ****ing retarded.

And we're not even on the second page yet!

 

[Ridge]

You're joking right? 3-5% for most of those earning under 350,000? That's how America will collapse? Really? That's not a big tax increase

That includes businesses, too. A LOT of businesses have gross income of more than $350,000...hell, when I worked for Burger King as a shift manager, in one 8 hour shift we could pull in 2 thousand dollars on a summer evening...

 

[Raziaar]

Even the left wing media refers to it now.

Yeah... they're morons too. The media is all too keen on buzzwords and "Obamacare" is just a retarded buzz word.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Yeah... they're morons too. The media is all too keen on buzzwords and "Obamacare" is just a retarded buzz word.

It's just short for "Obama's Healthcare Law." It's not even a buzzword, it's just a shortening.

An example of a buzzword would be adding "Gate" to everything that is a scandal.

The word Obamacare is in no way derrogatory on its own nor is it questionable to use it. Its commonplace. That's what it's called in society.

 

[Krynn72]

Rakurai, its already been explained to you why it IS a stupid and derogatory nomenclature. Do we really need to have that discussion again?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

Actually, it's not. Not at all. Taxes for the lower and middle class were higher under Reagan and Clinton and under Obama, the tax rate will simply return to what it was under Clinton.

You can word game it all you want- it's raising taxes. Tax rates are rising = tax hike.

Like I said, these tax hikes are only taking effect if they repeal the Bush tax cuts on the middle class. All you did was quote ATR, who are referring to the tax hikes that'll take place at the end of the year if those Bush tax cuts on the middle-class expire, when most of the Democrats are not going to let me expire because of the economy and the unemployment rate.

You're completely delusional if you think they're not going to let the tax cuts expire accross the board.

Except when the same people who are telling Republicans in office to extend the tax cuts on the rich are the same the people who have giving no other alternative to those tax cuts to increase revenue/decrease the deficit. Instead they're getting together with them, telling them Americans hate taxes so they should pledge to cut them, and then just ignore the 900 billion dollars of lost revenue over ten years. If they really are for sound tax policy, then what the hell do you call that?

The alternatives are to CUT SPENDING, and NOT ENACT massive spending such as the wasted trillion dollar stimulus and Obamacare. If that's considered "not an alternative" then WTF does the left want. It's because they are completely opposed to cutting spending that we're in this mess. And the wars are just a drop in the bucket.

Look at the deficit since Obama took office

And it's still bollocks, since not only is "small business" a term deliberately used to appeal to the middle-class who run those mom-and-pop stores, it's always used to push tax cuts on the rich which have little to no benefit for the middle-class. Instead, it's a term used to fool the middle-class people like you and me into voting for benefits and tax cuts for the rich business owners.

It's not "bollocks" and it's not a "trick term"

These are small businesses in the business world. They're not tricks to get the rich richer. If you're churning millions in revenue, the business is most likely spending a majority of that to keep operating. You're mistaking the amount of revenue with total PROFIT, which is something completely different.

And you know who you have to thank for that bit about small business expensing being slashed? Well guess what? The Obama administration tried to pass a senate bill that would have fixed that, along with providing $30 billion in loans to small independent banks on the provision of contributing to small businesses. Guess who blocked it?



The very people who are going to reward with votes in November for Obama's perceived failings to help small businesses. The same people who are taking advice from Americans for Tax Reform.

You can't blame Obama and the Democrats for something the Republicans deliberately opposed simply because they wanted them to look bad. That's like witnessing someone murder someone else, and then believing the murderer when they said they didn't do it.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN2822975420100728
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/30/us/politics/30cong.html?_r=1&ref=todayspaper

Who signed small business expensing SLASHES into the stimulus in the first place? Obama.

That bill was opposed because it is another wasteful, $30 billion dollar bank bailout. Not because they wanted to stop that provision of it. Not to mention the fact that that bill only extended the expensing THROUGH 2010.

You cant tack that onto a massive bailout bill opposed by most of the country, and claim they were opposed to the side line item that was attached when the opposition was to the bailout.

Somebody brought up racism as a joke, because you guys oppose the Obama administration "so we must be racist then herp derp derp". I think Xdrive started that. He was a piece of shit.

I've been called racist against blacks on many forums and in real life just for arguing against Obama's policies, so it's not surprising.

 

[Ridge]

I'm also called a racist on here constantly because I question Obama's anything...

 

[Krynn72]

Also because you're a racist.

And Rakaurai, let me fix that chart of yours.

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

The bailout was a massive failure, but your chart is misleading in the way it stacks the key. Put the red on the bottom, and you still see HUGE spending increase in '09 and '10 (600 billion vs 300 billion in 2008) when you subtract Iraq AND the bailout.


Signing TARP was probably the biggest mistake of GWBush's presidency. We'd probably be out of the recession now had we not spent everything we have. Once again goes to show that (gvt) spending is NOT the answer. Cut spending and taxes.

 

[Krynn72]

The bailout was a massive failure, but your chart is misleading in the way it stacks the key.

Thanks for pointing out the misleading nature of my chart. Now if only you could have done so for when you posted your version. You tried pawning off Bush's contribution to Obama to make him look worse. Just like FOX has been trying to put all the failure of the war in Afghanistan on him.

And I'm fine with Obama's contribution, since it saved us from a much worse fate. Not like it matters really, since the US wasn't going to get out of the deficit in this century anyways. Whats a few hundred more years of non-consequential no-need-to-pay-it-off debt when it saves thousands if not millions of people's livelihoods?

 

[Dr.Demento]

People dont understand that raising taxes promotes LESS revenue. If business taxes are higher, business will move elsewhere or stagnate.

Recovery, What recovery? This could seriously hamper our recovery, and it will probably screw Obama's chance for reelection when he fails to bring the nation out of this recession.

We have a lot of problems that need to be fixed but all the funds we need could be found in wasteful Pork, the military budget, and the black hole that is social security. This is not the time to start new programs (Obamacare). Socialized healthcare is already the LARGEST portion of the federal budget. We need to CUT spending, not RAISE taxes.

Lower taxes promote growth, higher taxes hamper growth. That is a simple Economic truth. WE F**KING NEED GROWTH!

Ha ha ha. Have you guys ever heard of a little game franchise called Sim City? Play it much?

 

[RakuraiTenjin]

And I'm fine with Obama's contribution, since it saved us from a much worse fate. Not like it matters really, since the US wasn't going to get out of the deficit in this century anyways. Whats a few hundred more years of non-consequential no-need-to-pay-it-off debt when it saves thousands if not millions of people's livelihoods?

It did not save "thousands if not millions" of livelihoods. It prolonged the recession.

We would've went through a harder time in the immediate months following the crash, and would've recovered to near normalcy by now. Now we've got a long, stagnating economy with no sign of recovery ahead. "The new normal" but it didnt have to be.