I'm fed up with religion. /rant

Malfunction

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Right, so I'm currently reading The God Delusion by Richard Dawkins (which I encourage everyone to read, and I mean everyone), and I've been an atheist ever since eighth grade. I love this book. It re-confirms everything I think about religion, and even provides new methods of disproving theists that I would never have realized. My rant is this:

THEISTS ARE ****ING IGNORANT.

I had reason to believe that one of my closer friends was religious in some capacity, and we've been chatting on AIM for a while now arguing. I started slowly, and I hinted at him being religious. He then claimed to not be religious at all, to which I was shocked. Then, he said he was Christian. My initial response [that was not sent] was "WTF?" but I held back and had him explain it. Needless to say, the explanation was ridiculous and hardly made much sense.

Then I hesitantly asked (fearing that my assumptions would be correct) if he supporter creationism and intelligent design. As you might expect, he does. We then argued about this for a good amount of time, with him falling back to illogical and unreasonable ideas, clearly being cornered.

Now we're arguing about the credibility of the Bible, and how it's virtually no different than if a friend of yours in a nearby city called you up and exclaimed that his neighbor turned a bunch of water into Gatorade and then resurrected his grandmother from her grave. His argument is that "hundreds of people saw Jesus do it" to which I inquired "is there proof of this?" Obviously there isn't, and now he's trying to change the subject by suggesting that world history can't be proven either then because we're essentially doing the same thing, believing anecdote after anecdote (though I received no argument after bringing up the shitloads of physical evidence that can confirm much of history).

The point of this thread is simple:
Why is it more acceptable to be an illogical, unreasonable, sheep believing anything your mommy and daddy tell you than being an investigative, logical, reasoning, "charismatic stallion" (thanks Yahtzee) even today in 2008? What the **** is wrong with the world?

I suggested that my normally-open-minded grandma read The God Delusion, and before I could even finish my sentence she angrily cut me off and briskly walked out of my room. She's a Catholic/Christian, just like I used to be. What the **** is wrong with people? How can anyone justify blindly believing something without even attempting to question their faith? Why does the majority of the world support this ignorance and stupidity?

I give my friend credit. At least he was open to questioning his ridiculous beliefs, but still. He's a smart kid. I used to consider him one of my smartest friends, but now things have changed.

Why is it that it is always necessary to disprove someone's belief rather than they prove it? Is it perhaps because there is no ****ing proof behind their bullshit? Are they so naive as to not see these fallacies?

The bottom line is this: I'm completely pro-civil liberties and personal privacy. BUT -- where do we draw the line? Religion is a plague that infests the majority of our planet. It has been motivation for many to pursue violence and war; it has encouraged scientific ignorance through trying to spread the word of creationism; most of all, it is not free of doing harm unto others, whether that be psychologically, intellectually, or physically. Religion has decreased intelligence through its mere existence. How is this not a harmful practice?

I suppose I'm just fed up with all of the bullshit. We live in a society where some people would discuss the latest trials and tribulations of some slutty, stupid celebrity rather than debate nor even question their religious beliefs. This is unhealthy, and if you're too thick to see so, I probably don't even want to interact with you.

And I think the worst part of it all is that I truly believe that atheism is correct; that Richard Dawkins is right. This is the one subject that I'm more than happy to be completely biased and bull-headed on, because I sincerely believe that there is no falsehoods in how I feel about this. I've tried really hard to be unbiased, but there is just no way. There is no God. There are no gods. There is no Holy Land. In the [probable] words of the great Penn & Teller, "religion is BULLSHIT!"

Thank you.

*rant brought to you buy 3am fatigue, hunger, and angst
 
Meh.

Religion thoughtshield.

At present there is no way around it.
 
What's that Lassie? Another religion thread has cropped up and is threatening to consume the board? Good boy! Now lead me away from it!
 
I figured I could have searched and found a billion religion threads, but I was in uber rant mode. There was no better solution. :p I'm glad I got it out of me though, and in retrospect, I actually think it relatively well-written.
 
What's that Lassie? Another religion thread has cropped up and is threatening to consume the board? Good boy! Now lead me away from it!

Basically this.


Who gives a shit what who believes in what Dammit!
 
*awaiting massive religious debate*

To answer your question though, people believe in religion for the most part because it was taught to them from an early age. It becomes so ingrained in them that they can't let go of it without. Just the same way, for example, you will defend evolution to the last straw, even though I can guarantee you it will be replaced or drastically altered with a better theory in a few centuries or so.

I've also heard of research which suggests that it's in human nature to believe in some sort of God(s). So some religious people might be, through their beliefs, simply fulfilling a human need.

As for me, I believe in God and the Bible. I was immersed in Christianity practically from birth. But I also believe evolution is the best theory explaining the origin of species right now. I try to keep an open mind about things.

The Bible says precious little as to how species and the universe came about. It's all in parables and symbolic stuff. Which makes sense, since people back in 4,000 B.C. or whatever probably didn't know much about genetic mutations and particle physics and all that jazz. All that you need to believe is that God set things into motion.

So all these debates between creationists and evolutionists is bullshit. They are the result of people being stubborn and closed minded- human nature. People who call themselves Christians will interpret the Bible in a certain way and then decide that their interpretation must be the right one. Then they go and force it on everyone and cause ruckus. This actually goes against the teachings of Jesus, who basically said to chill out and not stir up trouble with anybody.

Now that that's out of the way, the question is why believe in a God anyway? The answer to that question really changes from person to person. Some people say they feel a personal connection to God... a "spiritual" thing. I think I've felt that too. I can't describe it to you, you have to experience it for yourself. But that could just be any old feeling. So you don't care about that.

The real reason I belive in God is that it gives meaning to the universe. Even though it doesn't make much sense, I suppose that the universe could have sprung from absolutely nothing (after all, if that's the case then there was nobody before the universe to say that couldn't happen anyway). But that's boring. That means all those vast sprawling galaxies, black holes, our planet earth, you, me, love, and everything you've ever loved are but a pointless accident. I guess some people are okay with that. But that doesn't sit right with me.

The next question is, why adhere to any particular religion? Why the Christian God? For me the answer is: It's worked so far. And there's that feeling that I can't explain and you probably don't care about. There are also some cool things with certain prophecies coming true, such as Israel becoming a nation again.

But so far I haven't given any very logical reason to conclude God exists. I suppose I could argue that everything has an explanation for it's existence, and the explanation for the existence of the universe would have to be God (or something like a God). Or that everything has an ultimate origin, so there must be some absolute that is the ultimate origin of everything. Or that every event has a reason behind it, and the birth of the universe is no exception. But there are countless papers and debates on the subject done by all these brilliant philosophers that are way out of our league. Arguing about it on a fan site for a sci-fi videogame would be pointless. Human reason is flawed anyway.
 
My best and smartest friend is also christian. Here's a fun fact: I don't care. Quit bugging him about something that doesn't effect you. I mean, you had to drag a confession out of him for ****s sake. Yeah, you might think it's kind of stupid, but thinking less of him for it? Live and let live, dude.
 
The real reason I belive in God is that it gives meaning to the universe. Even though it doesn't make much sense, I suppose that the universe could have sprung from absolutely nothing (after all, if that's the case then there was nobody before the universe to say that couldn't happen anyway). But that's boring. That means all those vast sprawling galaxies, black holes, our planet earth, you, me, love, and everything you've ever loved are but a pointless accident. I guess some people are okay with that. But that doesn't sit right with me.

It sits right with me. I see where you're coming from, but I've never had any real sense of understanding with this kind of "God gives meaning to life" thing. The world doesn't 'need' a point. Not everything requires a purpose.
 
*sigh* even I have grown weary of these.

Its been so long since we had a proper religious thread. Now two have popped up randomly. Can't we just talk about more interesting things like lesbians or how we should hate pro-lifers or something?

BTW, I am an athiest, and I used to make millions of these threads. Before I realise there were better things I could be doing.
 
I suggested that my normally-open-minded grandma read The God Delusion, and before I could even finish my sentence she angrily cut me off and briskly walked out of my room. She's a Catholic/Christian, just like I used to be. What the **** is wrong with people?
I've heard that many people - even priests, nuns and other prominent religious figures question their faith at one point or another.

I don't think they can be coerced to question it, they do it on their own.

How can anyone justify blindly believing something without even attempting to question their faith?
I think that is one of the requirements.


If you want to drop friends because they choose to believe in something that the majority of people on this earth do, I think you are making a mistake.

I suggest you just be considerate and sensitive. Or just be yourself. It wouldn't surprise me if he was considering dropping you as a friend because your lack of faith is disturbing.
 
Well the one point I did read is the remark on theists being ignorant.

How hypocritical, because if you have ever witnessed the religious debates we have had here in the past, you will discover that atheists are just as ignorant as theists. Im pretty sure relgious debates have been banned here, and to rightly so, because they are pointless, arguing because people cant seem to grasp that other people can make their opinions and their own minds, even if it does seem stupid to others.

You could argue until the cows came home about it, but its just utterly childish arguing about something that can never come to a valuable conclusion.
 
I think pretty much all of the OP's rant is bullsh*t. People can believe what they want to believe and I think saying, and I quote "Religion is a plague that infests the majority of our planet" is going way to far. I'm a Christian and proud of it and I don't care what any mother****ers have to say about it.
 
I think most people missed the note at the bottom that I had hoped would "cover" me so to speak.

"*rant brought to you buy 3am fatigue, hunger, and angst"

I wasn't lying.

@highlander: I give a shit in what other people believe when it can have negative influence on them (i.e., donating large sums of money to "Jesus", spending hours of your life worshiping and praying, but seeing no results, subconsciously encouraging discrimination even though it's often taught as the wrong thing to do...ask yourself why Barack Obama's religious beliefs were so important to the public eye during his campaign). If the belief of religion wasn't affecting me, I sure wouldn't have any reason to complain about it, but like it or not, it's everywhere, and it's really annoying, especially when it's more acceptable in the public eye than an atheist would be (discrimination, again).

@Geogaddi: Right on!

@Teta_Bonita: I'm not going to go nuts or anything, so don't worry, but really quick. :p You mention religion being introduced during childhood, something I couldn't disagree with more strongly. If fully-grown adults claim they're unable to comprehend the awesome power of God, why is a child any better off? As you hinted at, religious belief is often forced on a child with he or she really having no say in the matter. Why not hold off until the child is at the "age or reason" and better equipped to really understand and choose freely? Is it perhaps, as you alluded to, the nice bonus that children are much easier to convince of supernatural rituals and beliefs, and thus, the beliefs stick with the child all the more stronger?

I also can't help but sort of sigh when I hear about these "personal" or "spiritual" connections one feels with God or Jesus or Allah or whomever. Psychology is a mother****er, I'll let you know right now. There are subtle ways that the mind works to create these feelings, as far as I'm concerned. I read a great book, Tricks of the Mind, written by Derren Brown (a famous magician/illusionist/mentalist from the UK, coincidentally also a huge fan of Richard Dawkins and The God Delusion), and the man does a great job of explaining these tricks we play on ourselves, often referencing common examples that almost anyone can related to. It was both hilarious and scary while reading in public that I would witness the very same psychological bullshit and antics we all act out, doing so subconsciously. With such powerful actions happening like this all the time, there are legitimate scientific and psychological explanations for these "feelings" you speak of.

There's also your misconception that just because a prophecy or prediction was seen to come true, that some supernatural deity must have willed it so. What evidence is there to support this? The common argument is that, oh, the event was just so improbable that it only could have been by the power of god. Or, it could have just happened, similar to a car crash on any busy intersection. It proves nothing and should be ignored. Is it no different than taking a two-sided coin (are there three-sided coins? O_O), and just prior to flipping it, you claim you have supernatural powers and are to will the coin to land on heads. Then, you flip the coin, and voila, HEADS! One of two outcomes occurred, which just happened to be what you predicted. Should I start kissing your feet? :/

You are very right when you say that human reason is flawed. There's always that possibility, but I believe that possibility is superbly reduced as scientific findings are constantly peer-reviewed and challenged and undergoing many tests. Whereas, religious reasoning is often concluded with the person claiming <subject> is incomprehensible by our minds, therefore, the default solution must be that God exists and created <subject>.

Thank you for posting though, seriously. You were more intelligent and peaceful than most I've come across, and I apologize if I sound like a douche.

@Bad^Hat & VirusType2: I'm not ceasing friendship with the person I mentioned in the OP. It's just that I think much less of him now than I had previously. No, this is not me making too big of a deal over nothing. To me, theism is a bid deal and says a lot about a person's character and integrity.

@Jintor: Word. :p A quote from Douglas Adams featured just prior to the first chapter of The God Delusion: "Isn't it enough to see that a garden is beautiful without having to believe that there are fairies at the bottom of it too?"

@VirusType2...again! :p Yes, I also agree that person should willingly question their face, and not be coerced into doing so. But for a theist to outright refuse to question themselves is even worse ignorance, so if no one ever feels that it's necessary, things could go downhill and fast.

@Shift: No offense, but I really really dislike that idea of submitting. Why is it seen as a bad thing to keep questioning such a significant portion of many people's lives? Yes, people can have their own beliefs. Yes, I can think their beliefs are extremely idiotic and downright dangerous for everyone's wellbeing. And why is it that religion is always the "hush-hush" topic in society? It's always the last thing everyone wants to discuss and argue about, yet it consumes many people's lives. This is important shit, and if it all were to be absolutely proven false, wouldn't everyone feel silly for believing in imaginary stories?
 
*awaiting massive religious debate*

To answer your question though, people believe in religion for the most part because it was taught to them from an early age. It becomes so ingrained in them that they can't let go of it without. Just the same way, for example, you will defend evolution to the last straw, even though I can guarantee you it will be replaced or drastically altered with a better theory in a few centuries or so.


you made an awful mistake...defending evolution till the last breath is stupid. a true atheist should gather all the evidence and decide what makes more logical sense. evolution should be replaced over time but with a better "theory", not some half assed creationist bullshit.



i personally have a very good friend who is deeply religious...but i still maintain friendship with her. but if she someday decides to force her views and beliefs onto others then we'll have a problem.
 
What i want to know, Malfunction, is why you think religion could be "dangerous". In what way can religion be a "danger" to people?
 
What i want to know, Malfunction, is why you think religion could be "dangerous". In what way can religion be a "danger" to people?

Wasting countless hours of one's life on something that is unable to be proven to even exist isn't dangerous? Being motivation for violence and war isn't dangerous? Discouraging scientific reasoning and understanding isn't dangerous? A government spending its taxpayers' money to support private, religious institutions isn't dangerous? Encouraging discrimination against people other other faiths isn't dangerous? (I mentioned earlier that while the opposite of this is often taught in faiths, I see such hate literally on a daily basis.)
 
I can live with Religion, for now. Just keep it to yourselves, is all I ask, and I'll keep my Godless Heathen ways to myself.
 
Well, no, I don't see any of them as "dangerous" myself. "Dangerous" would imply threat, and there is no possible way that any of those could be threatening. :|
Edit: Damn you, Jintor!
 
Well, no, I don't see any of them as "dangerous" myself. "Dangerous" would imply threat, and there is no possible way that any of those could be threatening. :|
Edit: Damn you, Jintor!

I fail to see how any of which I suggested aren't dangerous.

In my youth, I was forced to spend countless hours in my Catholic school in religion class, and on Sundays going to church. The only problem is that, if faith is illogical, I was wasting my time. As I said, people waste their lives away praying to a man in the sky hoping that he will save them from their plight. This false hope is dangerous enough, and to support spending such a large portion of one's life "practicing" a faith is dangerous to me.

You don't see violence and war as dangerous? What? Radical Islamists strapping C4 to their chests and killing innocent people in hope of some fantasy isn't dangerous? Seriously?

Promoting that people cease trying to understand "irreducibly complex" ideas isn't dangerous? In other words, encouraging laziness on a massive scale is perfectly ok?

A government taking in money from its many citizens, some of whom may or may not be religious, and then spending that money not for the bettering of the country, but for the improvement of a private religious institution which many citizens probably do not share the same beliefs with -- this is just dandy then?

I feel like I'm just repeating my last post, but I don't see how I can make my points any more clear than I already have.

EDIT: Superb video TechnoHippyChic! I miss Hicks and Carlin already. =(
 
@Shift: No offense, but I really really dislike that idea of submitting. Why is it seen as a bad thing to keep questioning such a significant portion of many people's lives? Yes, people can have their own beliefs. Yes, I can think their beliefs are extremely idiotic and downright dangerous for everyone's wellbeing. And why is it that religion is always the "hush-hush" topic in society? It's always the last thing everyone wants to discuss and argue about, yet it consumes many people's lives. This is important shit, and if it all were to be absolutely proven false, wouldn't everyone feel silly for believing in imaginary stories?

Well thats one of my main points, these sort of beliefs can never be proven false, its mainly based on logical speculation rather than facts, the God idea cant be proven just as much as it cant be disproven, the entire argument is something than none of us fully understand, its a battle of beliefs, not facts against fantasy whether you like to think so or not, so I stand by my original statement, no end can come to this argument, no end has come to this argument in the past, it just turns into everyone insulting everyone else and gets locked. No matter how strong your beliefs are or how dangerous yout think it is, it is still a pointless argument because you will never make a difference, christianity will always thrive as will other religions, at the moment, you are just some guy ranting about it on a Half-life 2 forum trying to stur up unneeded arguments in a place where its all been done and dusted before. So keep your opinions to yourself as everyone else here has learnt to do and your time here will be much more pleasant.
 
You should move here. 80% of the Swedish people don't believe in God.
 
This thread is pointless.
Please leave through the emergency hatch to your right.

Thank you for flying with Stern Airlines.
 
I hate to go to this extreme, but oh well.

Slavery was prevalent on a near-global scale for a very long time, and while I'm sure there were those who disagreed with such practices, it took quite a bit of effort to really make any change.

Do you see what I'm getting at here? No, I'm not comparing slavery to theism. It's just the submission to the majority. Would you be making the same argument that everyone has different beliefs and that's just great if it were slavery we were discussing? I just can't stand when people tell me to "let it go" because it's been around for so long. That's such an awful thing to suggest, that one simply just give up hope.

"the God idea cant be proven just as much as it cant be disproven"

Correct. However, why is it the cynic's job to disprove God? Why is it not a theist's job to prove (and really prove) his or her beliefs? Right now I could claim that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is speaking to me, telling me that I must rally my friends and loved ones together to worship the almighty tentacles. Could you disprove that? No, because it doesn't exist.
 
I didn't read all of the responses but maybe I can offer some advice.

Next time you think about talking religion with a religious person just do yourself a favor and drop it. I know it's easier said than done but just letting go will make you a much happier person.

Somebody that has spent their entire life around religion will not be changed by what you have to say to them. From my own personal experiance arguing about religion makes everything from friendships, to work, to dating much more difficult.

This of couse doesn't apply to hl2.net, talking about how bad religion is around here is one big circle jerk so you should be fine.
 
My point being this forum is "The Lounge" - which is non Half Life 2 discussion, and you're bringing up "oh, i wonder if alyx and eli is religious"

You should be banned.
 
My point being this forum is "The Lounge" - which is non Half Life 2 discussion, and you're bringing up "oh, i wonder if alyx and eli is religious"

You should be banned.

it's still on the subject of relligon
 
wether they are religous or not: YES!!!

Why don't you create another shitty thread in the Half Life Series forum asking if they are religious?

Think about it. Is there any reference to their religion in the game? No. So why bring it up?
 
never discuss religion with the religious ..it's like trying to pass a camel through the eye of a needle or some other religious metaphor


and those that say hl2.net rags too much on religion, well if they didnt give us a reason to on a constant consistant basis there would be nothing to ridicule ..but jesus ****ing christ religion is a veritable goldmine of the funny; they churn out crazy on a daily basis, sometimes you just cant keep up with all that crazy and some of it isnt that funny, like when people kill themselves/their children in the the name of the loooooooord
 
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