New proof of multiverses due to "structures" outside our know universe

[David.Seth2]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100322-dark-flow-matter-outside-universe-multiverse/

In 2008 scientists reported the discovery of hundreds of galaxy clusters streaming in the same direction at more than 2.2 million miles (3.6 million kilometers) an hour.

This mysterious motion can't be explained by current models for distribution of mass in the universe. So the researchers made the controversial suggestion that the clusters are being tugged on by the gravity of matter outside the known universe.

.......................

The find adds to the case that chunks of matter got pushed outside the known universe shortly after the big bang—which in turn hints that our universe is part of something larger: a multiverse.

This has to be one of the coolest things I've ever heard. Another universe? Its hard to wrap my mind around the possibility that there could be more than one universe. As if one wasn't big enough. I wonder how this is going to change scientists theories of the origins of the universe. And if it really isn't a multiverse, then what the hell has enough gravity to pull on hundreds of galaxies?

 

[JDM Accord]

I am fascinated by stuff like this. Thanks for posting it!

 

[15357]

. And if it really isn't a multiverse, then what the hell has enough gravity to pull on hundreds of galaxies?

Cthluhu.


But in all seriousness, this is cool. It just boggles my mind: How big is this plane of existence that we live in? I mean, the universe is big enough, but other universes existing on the same plane?

Holy Jesus.

 

[Stigmata]

p. sure that other universe is just another boson or something like ours.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Would this other universe or universes out there be alternate realities of ours or simply more, different galaxies? And if we see our counterparts there, will the fabric of space and time cease to exist?

 

[15357]

Would this other universe or universes out there be alternate realities of ours or simply more, different galaxies? And if we see our counterparts there, will the fabric of space and time cease to exist?

I would think that since they are able to affect our own universe, it'd be simply more galaxies.

I mean, we exist on the same realm - therefore not an alternate reality.

 

[Warped]

this shit boggles my mind!! now I am no longer Warped, but Normal

 

[99.vikram]

I would think that since they are able to affect our own universe, it'd be simply more galaxies.

I mean, we exist on the same realm - therefore not an alternate reality.

Although if Feynman's sum-over-histories idea is right, there are alternate realities, but the only to find out for sure is to conduct a few hundred quantum suicide experiments.

If you survive, congrats, you have just jumped a few hundred realities!

 

[15357]

*head explodes*

 

[VirusType2]

I don't know any reason to believe alternate realities exist, but multiple universes seem possible.

 

[Sam]

There's just the one.

 

[Remus]

This has to be one of the coolest things I've ever heard. Another universe? Its hard to wrap my mind around the possibility that there could be more than one universe. As if one wasn't big enough. I wonder how this is going to change scientists theories of the origins of the universe. And if it really isn't a multiverse, then what the hell has enough gravity to pull on hundreds of galaxies?

The idea of parallel universes is an old one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBrIBs3YRWI&feature=related

After watching a lot of documentaries on this subject, what I find dissapointing is that:
1)It would take an enormous amount of energy to create a gateway to another universe.
2)The transition to that parallel universe would kill you.

So we can keep our hevsuits in the closet, at least for now.

 

[Sheepo]

 

[Avoidist]

That is the perfect picture for this thread.

Just a few notes - and I could be wrong on both:
1. Membrane, not Boson.
2. Hawking, not Feynman (edit - just checked, Feynman did a sum over histories thing which is more to do with quantum mechanics and how at large enough scales things converge to classical mechanics, Hawking if I remember correctly introduced a new idea to make sure that evaporating black holes did not cause a net decrease in entropy by summing over all universes where black holes would not occupy the same space, which may be slightly more relevant.)

 

[DEATHMASTER]

I really badly wish I understood what that meant.

 

[Eejit]

There's just the one.

Oh really?

 

[Tyguy]

the best explanation for these types of observations is "No ****ing idea", which is basically what my astrophysicist teacher has told us. we still can't account for all of this extra mass and it's gravitational effect on the galaxy, let alone the rest of the universe. we also can't even give an accurate explanation as to how the galaxies formed so quickly. we're far from learning anything regarding a multiverse but i agree that it's mind blowing.

to put things into perspective a little...nobody knows why the sun spins so slowly either. I find that very troubling.

 

[ríomhaire]

I take it what they mean is another portion of matter occupying the same space as our universe but created a different event, ie, another Big Band somewhere far away.

 

[Unfocused]

What does constitute/limit a universe? Why would we call something another universe - can't it just be a further part of our universe?

 

[Remus]

What does constitute/limit a universe? Why would we call something another universe - can't it just be a further part of our universe?

What riomhaire just described, is essentially still part of this Universe, just matter created far away by a separate unknown event. Like 2 different galaxies for example. A true parallel universe exists independently of our space/time. In the same place as our universe but slightly out of phase. As Michio Kaku put it, an infinity of parallel universes exist right here in your living room.

 

[MuToiD_MaN]

Oh really?

Bite my glorious golden ass.

 

[TimoJay]

"o snap. this observation doesn't fit into our man-made laws, let's make up some crazy shit that's so off-the-wall that no1 can disprove it"

 

[Warped]

Super massive black holes the size of a pin being sucked through a wormhole to another dimension. I just hope I get sucked through and become a giant

 

[Kula Meenur]

Where we are going, we won't need eyes to see.

 

[Remus]

Eventhorizon ?

 

[Ravioli]

 

[Kula Meenur]

Indeed! Now let us all board the plane of chaos and eternal suffering.

 

[Warped]

no we aren't going to hell because if people want to go to hell they'll just go to New Jersey or Cleveland

 

[Remus]

Scenario:

Scientist invents parallel universe travel technology, sells it to US government, which proceeds to conquer parallel Earths and "suck" them dry of resources.

B sci-fi movie at 8

 

[staticprimer]

Quick! Go watch Fringe!

 

[Azner]

There's just the one.
snep

My Gosh, you're alive.

 

[Mogi67]

This isn't proof of anything really. Believe in your alternate fairyland, you'll die on the other side

 

[Dan]

As soon as it interacts with our universe, it is no longer a separate universe. If it is pulling on our universe, it is within the same universe. I think they are just talking about a theoretical mass beyond the edge of the known universe (the horizon of the big bang/the cosmic background microwave radiation)

Multiverse theory is a perfect example of a completely useless theory. It predicts the existence of stuff which does not exist in our universe. Therefore it does not matter if it exists or not. I also have a theory about fluffy pink elephants that exist in another universe. No you can't interact with them. No they don't affect anything. But you can't prove that they exist or don't exist. The theory is completely irrelevant to anything, but it makes me happy to believe that they exist somewhere else. There is an infinity of entities which do not exist in our universe. You can believe that they are living out alternate lives if you want, but it is pointless.

Existence is relative only to your measure of existence. The universe that exists is the one that allows you to exist to observe it. This isn't a theory, just a simple fact of the nature of existence and awareness. The sum of the universe can be described by the sum of your experience. What you don't experience (or is not extrapolated from your experience) does not exist. It is very simple.

The question really, is who are you? All of science is trying to figure it out from the other side, studying the "environment" we live in, extrapolating the other simplified model. but you could just as readily figure out the universe from the inside out because the environment is inexorably linked to the experience of that environment. They both define each other. With complete knowledge of yourself, you could extrapolate the environment which allows you to exist. However, I think it has been mathematically proven that such complete knowledge could not exist within the universe, or within yourself. But it really gives meaning to the idea of inner knowledge and all that mumbo jumbo.

 

[lePobz]

... what he said.

 

[VirusType2]

Multiverse theory is a perfect example of a completely useless theory. It predicts the existence of stuff which does not exist in our universe. Therefore it does not matter if it exists or not.

The reason we have these new models: Dark Energy, Dark Matter, and Dark Flow is that they do exist, we can't see them and don't fully understand them yet. We can however, see their undeniable influence on matter that we can see.

They are the missing pieces to the puzzles that make all the math work. The math that insofar explains why the universe works.

If you have a vacuum, and remove all matter, every particle from it, there should be nothing there, right? But as has been proven evident, nothing is actually something: dark matter.

My guess is that if there wasn't something there, it would collapse. This something is dark matter. The problem with seeing it is, dark matter is not bound by boundaries. It passes through solid objects of any kind. The other thing is it doesn't seem to be limited, in other words, no matter how much you remove, dark matter will fill the gaps.

In astronomy and cosmology, dark matter is matter that is inferred to exist from gravitational effects on visible matter and background radiation, but is undetectable by emitted or scattered electromagnetic radiation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_matter

Dark energy explains why suddenly the universe is now expanding faster than it was. Something is pulling it: multiverse. You agree that events in the universe are not magic right? All of the universe is bound by the laws of physics. It's just there are some aspects that cannot be explained by what we now know.

In physical cosmology, astronomy and celestial mechanics, dark energy is a hypothetical form of energy that permeates all of space and tends to increase the rate of expansion of the universe.[1] Dark energy is the most popular way to explain recent observations and experiments that the universe appears to be expanding at an accelerating rate. In the standard model of cosmology, dark energy currently accounts for 74% of the total mass-energy of the universe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_energy

Dark Flow is a name given to a net motion of galaxy clusters with respect to the cosmic microwave background radiation which was found in a 2008 study.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_flow

 

[nurizeko]

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2010/03/100322-dark-flow-matter-outside-universe-multiverse/



This has to be one of the coolest things I've ever heard. Another universe? Its hard to wrap my mind around the possibility that there could be more than one universe. As if one wasn't big enough. I wonder how this is going to change scientists theories of the origins of the universe. And if it really isn't a multiverse, then what the hell has enough gravity to pull on hundreds of galaxies?

My guess is hundreds of other galaxies or whatever other things lay outside of our observable range of the universe (it is a big feckin place).

It does sound cool, but than again it sounds like allot of theorycraft.

Also as an interesting point, gravity shouldn't exist outside our universe (in any way we know it) and matter as we know it shouldn't either. Actually to be honest nothing outside our universe should effect or otherwise alter our laws of physics. I am no award winning physicist or anything but over the years that is the general jist of the definition of universe as I understand it.

Allot of hypothesis' about the 'multiverse' and extra-universal science seems to smack of philosophy rather than hard science soo...whatever.

Also it is meaningless to our practical present problems so while its nice to guess about, it really isn't that important.

 

[99.vikram]

Allot of hypothesis' about the 'multiverse' and extra-universal science seems to smack of philosophy rather than hard science soo...whatever.

That's because you are a layman. Repeat after me: layman. You do not understand this sh*t (and neither do I) and therefore you cannot call into question the ideas of men whose job it is to work on this. If you do, then you are no better than a creationist who keeps yelling, "where's the evidence for evolution?!?!" It's there, you just don't have the academic foundation to understand it.

Now, onto multiverse theory and other ideas. These aren't "philosophical" suggestions, they're theories postulated to explain gaps in our current understanding of the universe. If you knew basic cosmology, you'd know that dark matter and dark energy (whatever they may ultimately be) are real. The weirdness we see around us is not due to "hundreds of other galaxies or whatever other things lay outside of our observable range of the universe". The reason we know this: the cosmic microwave background radiation is almost perfectly uniform in all directions. On the cosmic scale, the universe is very even and not at all "lumpy". And we *know* that it can't be due to galaxies outside the range of our vision because gravitons travel at the speed of light. If we can't see it, it doesn't affect us.

The reason these weird ideas are making the rounds is that they mathematically explain some phenomena which our current theories cannot. Each one of them was postulated because it explained some some particular problem definitively. These are incomplete theories, and not all of them can be right, but it's not magic.

I'm a layman too, which is why I don't question the experts on this issue. If you trust your life to an aeronautical engineer, you should trust your astrophysics to a scientist.

 

[nurizeko]

"You cannot question the mystical wisdom of the grand masters of sciyeeeense!"

An interest point of view, I commend you for laying it down so well....buttt....no. Sorry, disagree entirely.

Science is open to all, and I'm well within my rights to call bullshit on a hypothesis when I think it, it is up to the composer of said hypothesis to convince me of its scientific validity, regardless of the amount of letters at the end of my name compared to theirs.

The reason we know this: the cosmic microwave background radiation is almost perfectly uniform in all directions.

Dunno, looks sorta 'lumpy' to me.

I get your point and I appreciate it "believe the scientists, not the fairy magic enthusiasts" but you're confusing that with "believe EVERYTHING the scientists tell you without criticism".

Scientists are human beings and prone to flaws and errors in their findings/judgement even if their 'heart' is in the right place, let alone people stuck up their own arses or peddling some socio-political agenda, or simply kow-towing to a certain conclusion for funding.

Yeah, leave cosmology to the cosmologists, but I am no scientific illiterate so if I feel I need to be convinced more of a hypothesis than I will say as such.

This particular one smacks of "well, we don't know why something is like that so lets invent a scientific magic pink unicorn to explain it away" philosophizing.

As for the aeronautical engineer comment, we have a much more complete and functioning understanding of aerodynamics and mechanical engineering. No-one is "making shit up" with that.

 

[Danimal]

Pathetic humans! You are far yet from understanding the Omniverse!

 

[Willsmith.fan]