London and Birmingham Riots

[15357]

Why don't the UK police use CS gas to get the rioters to go back home?


I'd use VX.

 

[ríomhaire]

Silly numbers, CS isn't real.

 

[Solaris]

As a British person I can safely say I applaud their efforts.

Then you're a fascist.

 

[Pulse]

Then you're a fascist.

Correct. Be right back, just need to iron my swastika drape.

 

[CptStern]

Match.com Pulse profile:

likes: crisp uniforms, jackboots, crew cuts, swastika drapes, armchair activism

dislikes: people without crew cuts, getting involved

 

[Pulse]

CptStern: Putting poor attempts at trolling Internet users and the American populace before his children since 2004.

 

[Stigmata]

I like the part where you implicitly advocate a violently overreactive, oppressive police force.

 

[Pulse]

And I like the part where you see one piece of amateur footage and instantly dub the entire UK's police force as over reactive and oppressive. They showed complete restraint for almost four days whilst this rioting escalated and now that they're finally responding with equal measure to protect further destruction and deaths they're suddenly the enemy. And I'm a fascist for supporting them. I guess that makes all of the victims of looting and arson fascists as well!

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

I like the part where you implicitly advocate a violently overreactive, oppressive police force.

Pick up that can.

 

[Krynn72]

lol, are you trying to discredit the video by calling it amateur? Also, Stigmata was replying to your comment where you said you applauded their "efforts", specifically referring to my post about the cop beating down the person for no reason. You support cops beating down people for no reason, Stigmata says that such force is over-reactive and oppressive.

 

[Raziaar]

I'm a little confused how the word "amateur" is used here. Does the fact that it's not a video licensed out to a professional filming studio or news agency mean that the actions depicted by police officers are somehow of a lesser quality and not to be properly considered?

 

[Stylo]

Errr...

Ok, so the 'climate' was completely different,

Well, that does back up my point that Police don't just walk around armed, they did suspect Menezes of being a terror suspect but the difference here is that Menezes didn't pull a gun on them and The Met at this point were acting extremely because of the bombing attempt the previous day, though that doesn't excuse them for what they did.

If you analyse the evidence in that case, it points to The Met clearly being in the wrong and they did suffer for it. In this case, all the evidence so far points to them acting within their rights and power. Obviously, I still can't say 100% whether they DID do something wrong but my beef is with the people defending Duggan by making out that the Police stopped a poor innocent young black man and violently destroyed his life without due cause.

Even his friends and family seem to be clutching at straws now to make The Met out to be the bad ones like his partner saying that they should have shot him in the hand if he pulled a gun. I'm sure if his partner had been an armed and trained gun crime officer who had a gun pulled on her, she would have definitely taken the time to shoot him in the hand, even though he still might not have dropped his gun and then returned fire.

Stylo, were the people in your video looters caught in the act or suspected looters?

Read the video description: Manchester. Tactical Aid Unit catch rioters trying to flee from the city centre, and blockade the street. The sound you can hear in the background is the helicopter overhead, which had been hovering around the area for about 10 minutes, tracking them with its spotlight.

That's what Police radios and helicopters are for.

The kid got off his bike and stood there waiting for the police to come talk to him. Instead they charged him, clubbed him on the head and bashed him with a shield, then kicked him a few times for good measure, and walked away, not even arresting the person.

I'm pretty sure that's not what's happening in this video. The kid was in the process of getting off his bike and likely not to stand there and wait for the Police to talk to him, more likely to run in an opposite direction to them. Also, again, the video description: The man on the bike gets up on his own, and is ushered to the side of the road by a policeman. Another man with a bike is questioned, and allowed to continue on. (Not just hitting anybody)

After seeming to question those they had caught for a few minutes, the two teams met at the top of the hill and left with the TAU van, heading back towards the city centre. (They didn't just walk off and leave the poor beaten souls on the ground)

I like the part where you implicitly advocate a violently overreactive, oppressive police force.

LOL at this. Just not even.

 

[Pulse]

I'm a little confused how the word "amateur" is used here. Does the fact that it's not a video licensed out to a professional filming studio or news agency mean that the actions depicted by police officers are somehow of a lesser quality and not to be properly considered?

Where did I make that assumption? I merely stated it was amateur video because, well, it is. In no part of my post did I attack its credibility.

 

[Raziaar]

Why even make the distinction that it's amateur then? Usually when the term amateur is used, it's as a means to evoke a reaction to the audience... whether one of incredulity or enticement.

Maybe I'm just being silly.

 

[Krynn72]

I'm pretty sure that's not what's happening in this video.

I'm pretty sure it is. For one, if he wanted to make an escape, he wouldn't have gotten off his bike, he would have turned and went faster. If he was dumb enough to get off his bike to try and flee, he would have done it must faster than that. He wouldn't have completely stopped the bike, stood there for a bit, slowly gotten off, let his bike drop to the ground while he stood there, etc. He would have hopped off as fast as he could. I'm almost positive he was just waiting for the cop to come up and talk to him.[/QUOTE]

 

[Stylo]

Yes, but do you think he was expecting the Police to come round the corner? To me, the reaction he made was one of "Oh shit, wait, what's going on here, oh crap, Police, errrr" and then he got hit.

You keep making out like he's getting beaten for "No reason" but he was a looter. Like I said in my previous post, a helicopter had tracked them from the scene of the crime.

I'm sure it would all work out if The Police and the criminals all sat down for a nice cup of tea and talked this whole silly business out.

Where do you guys draw the line? Truly innocent people have been killed, houses and livelihoods burnt to the ground, The Police show a bit of force after a big period of restraint and complaints from the British Public and now suddenly they're evil Nazis, brutalising everyone with their animalistic ways.

The Police either get tough or the criminals carry on, simple as. If you've been reading and paying attention to the links in this thread, you've heard some of the looters and rioters themselves saying "We won't stop because nobody can stop us" and stating nothing will happen to them but a tap on the wrist which they're not afraid of.

This needs to stop and if displaying force is a way of stopping it, so be it. I would much rather some criminals get beaten by Police than more innocent people lose their lives and more businesses are terrorised with arson attacks and looted to oblivion.

Kids get beaten up worse than that at school, where I live. These guys got hit with batons and few times and kicked, it's not like it lasted more than a matter of seconds. This is tame compared to the Police force in the 80s England riots.

 

[Krynn72]

I draw the line at beating a cooperative person. If he was caught off guard or not doesnt matter, he wasn't resisting. He could have just as easily been detained non-violently. This was violence without purpose any way you cut it. As I said before, I don't care if he committed a crime before, he was cooperative and giving himself up. If you want to exact punishment then use the legal means provided by the courts, you know, the whole reason the courts exist.

 

[Raziaar]

Kids get beaten up worse than that at school, where I live. These guys got hit with batons and few times and kicked, it's not like it lasted more than a matter of seconds. This is tame compared to the Police force in the 80s England riots.

An absolutely bad way to go about judging things, based on a pyramid of comparisons.

 

[CptStern]

I'm sure it would all work out if The Police and the criminals all sat down for a nice cup of tea and talked this whole silly business out.

Where do you guys draw the line?

how about law enforcement upholding the law? that would be nice. anything not in that spirit is tipping towards criminality and we dont want to support criminals now do we?

Kids get beaten up worse than that at school, where I live.

by cops?


funny how some people are willing to turn a blind eye to criminal behaviour when they agree with it. the hypocritical part is that it's no better than the reasoning some looters are giving for looting

"to show the cops we can"

 

[Stylo]

So basically, we let our major cities descend into an anarchic cesspool where the people cry out that the Police aren't using enough force, where the only people that have been seriously injured / died have NOT been criminals and we can at least hold our heads up high and say: "Well, at least we didn't give any criminals any boo-boos."

Stern, they have NOT been upholding the law for the last 4 days in which the streets of London pretty much became 100% lawlessness.

They are upholding the law now by stopping criminals. If they have to use force to ensure they're stopped and don't repeat their actions, I'm behind them.

 

[Pulse]

[video=youtube_share;9pAC0YSmK0g]http://youtu.be/9pAC0YSmK0g[/video]

Sums it up quite nicely. Take note yanks.

 

[CptStern]

So basically, we let our major cities descend into an anarchic cesspool where the people cry out that the Police aren't using enough force, where the only people that have been seriously injured / died have NOT been criminals and we can at least hold our heads up high and say: "Well, at least we didn't give any criminals any boo-boos."

oh I see you subscribe to world where everything is black and white. it's either tea and crumpets with the rioters or curb stomping. asking them to do their actual job? good no they need to curb stomp because I'm angry when there's hooligans on the

Stern, they have NOT been upholding the law for the last 4 days in which the streets of London pretty much became 100% lawlessness.

..because they knew people would turn a blind eye to police brutality after 4 days? or could it have been they're ill prepared which is why the military is on standby?

They are upholding the law now by stopping criminals. If they have to use force to ensure they're stopped and don't repeat their actions, I'm behind them.

yes a severe beating will surely show onlookers that rioting is wrong. I mean it's worked before

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_the_Beanfield


you're letting emotion cloud your thinking

 

[Eejit]

And I like the part where you see one piece of amateur footage and instantly dub the entire UK's police force as over reactive and oppressive. They showed complete restraint for almost four days whilst this rioting escalated and now that they're finally responding with equal measure to protect further destruction and deaths they're suddenly the enemy. And I'm a fascist for supporting them. I guess that makes all of the victims of looting and arson fascists as well!

Is "doing **** all" the same as showing restraint?
Surely there must be a middle ground.

 

[Stylo]

oh I see you subscribe to world where everything is black and white. it's either tea and crumpets with the rioters or curb stomping. asking them to do their actual job? good no they need to curb stomp because I'm angry when there's hooligans

That's precisely what you're doing? Either we don't use any force or we're big fascists!

The Police show a little bit of force and suddenly "No, outrage, brutality, STOP THEM HURTING THE CRIMINALS"

..because they knew people would turn a blind eye to police brutality after 4 days? or could it have been they're ill prepared which is why the military is on standby?

That's utter bollocks, to be honest. They showed restraint through fear of backlash. Even the PM quibbled over the use of rubber bullets in the riots. For 4 days, Police have stood there with sheilds and had bricks, petrol bombs and chairs thrown at them. They have made zero impact in "Doing their job" because they simply couldn't without showing some degree of force.

Now that they are doing their job and the riots are dying down, suddenly they're in the wrong. It's nothing to do with emotion clouding thinking at all. It's to do with the simple fact that people have died and the Police tap a few criminals and get treated like they're worse than the murderers, thieves and arsonists that have run the streets for nearly a working week.

What do you suggest they do to do their job? They're doing their job right now.

 

[CptStern]

That's precisely what you're doing? Either we don't use any force or we're big fascists!

The Police show a little bit of force and suddenly "No, outrage, brutality, STOP THEM HURTING THE CRIMINALS"

oh stop being a melodramatic ninny. I didnt say any such thing. I asked for a measured, by the book response while you're advocating thugery from people who's job it is to uphold the law

That's utter bollocks, to be honest. They showed restraint through fear of backlash. Even the PM quibbled over the use of rubber bullets in the riots. For 4 days, Police have stood there with sheilds and had bricks, petrol bombs and chairs thrown at them. They have made zero impact in "Doing their job" because they simply couldn't without showing some degree of force.

Now that they are doing their job and the riots are dying down, suddenly they're in the wrong. It's nothing to do with emotion clouding thinking at all. It's to do with the simple fact that people have died and the Police tap a few criminals and get treated like they're worse than the murderers and arsonists that have run the streets for nearly a working week.

"murderers" running through the street, ya you're not overly emotionally invested at all. there is no middle ground it's either do nothing or police brutality

What do you suggest they do to do their job? They're doing their job right now.

their job? the cops in the video werent doing "their job". their job is to uphold the law not to be a vigilant proxy for armchair citizens out for revenge

 

[Stylo]

oh stop being a melodramatic ninny. I didnt say any such thing. I asked for a measured, by the book response while you're advocating thugery from people who's job it is to uphold the law

Advocating thuggery. I'm obviously the one being a "melodramatic ninny."

"murderers" running through the street, ya you're not overly emotionally invested at all. there is no middle ground it's either do nothing or police brutality

Oh, sorry, yes. I forgot that setting fire to buildings with people still inside them wasn't tantamount to being a murderer. Would you have preferred the term "manslaughter"? or perhaps "Being very naughty with disregard to people's lives"? and well, the people that have been killed, well, they just don't matter at all! It's hardly Police Brutality. Maybe if they'd suffered more than a few light bruises for smashing in shop windows and stealing things, perhaps.

their job? the cops in the video werent doing "their job". their job is to uphold the law not to be a vigilant proxy for armchair citizens out for revenge

So, please do tell me your wonderful tactic for non-aggression against people throwing bricks at you?

"Pip pip! You, you little ruffian with the baseball bat! I do say, put down your offensive object and come quietly or we shall be jolly cross and write you a letter about it!"

Please.

 

[Shem]

Sums it up quite nicely. Take note yanks.

Hey, don't bring us Americans into this. We're not the ones rioting in the streets and causing havoc.

 

[Stigmata]

Pat Condell is a giant "appeal to authority and tradition" logical fallacy, anyway. Nothing but worthless finger-pointing at imaginary forces and misunderstood psychologies supporting a rigid, classist, racist hierarchical worldview, as usual.

 

[CptStern]

Advocating thuggery. I'm obviously the one being a "melodramatic ninny."

ya last time I looked police brutality wasnt part of their job. yes you're being a melodramatic ninny

Oh, sorry, yes. I forgot that setting fire to buildings with people still inside them wasn't tantamount to being a murderer.

you actually have to kill someone to be called a murderer or else it's just attempted murder and if they didnt know it was inhabited it's manslaughter

Would you have preferred the term "manslaughter"?

that's what the court would call it if the conditions I mentioned above have been met, yes

or perhaps "Being very naughty with disregard to people's lives"? and well, the people that have been killed, well, they just don't matter at all! It's hardly Police Brutality. Maybe if they'd suffered more than a few light bruises for smashing in shop windows and stealing things, perhaps.

there's the melodramatic ninny part again. you are being melodramatic also seeing things in black and white and advocating a curb stomping response or nothing.

So, please do tell me your wonderful tactic for non-aggression against people throwing bricks at you?

ffs stylo can you hear yourself? how are you not being melodramatic? who said anything about just sitting on your ass while thugs throw bricks at you? you that's who! I distinctly said a measured response within the boundaries of the law otherwise they're outside of the law. this is not a hard concept to grasp seeing as how the term "police brutality" is a household word

"Pip pip! You, you little ruffian with the baseball bat! I do say, put down your offensive object and come quietly or we shall be jolly cross and write you a letter about it!"

Please.

sandy vaginas are sandy. how about "Pip Pip you're under arrest for causing a disturbance" or is that not enough armchair thuggery for your tastes? far too emotionally invested to see things clearly is what I'd say

 

[Stylo]

You know, just because you keep saying the words "You're far too emotionally invested" it doesn't mean it's suddenly going to become true.

Stern, I don't think you have quite gripped the gravity of this situation. Police for days HAVE been sitting there having bricks thrown at them. There's much footage available of it on the internet, if you'd just care to actually look for it for 2 seconds.

As for the "sandy vaginas lol I'm a hilarious troll" bit, how would you propose to arrest these rioters without force? Ask them nicely to drop their weapons and bend over? Like I said, many of these criminals admit they're doing it because the Police are powerless and can't stop them. They're hardly then going to raise their hands to the sky for a Police Officer who doesn't have the power to hit them to the ground.

You're putting words in my mouth. I haven't at any point said "curb stomping or nothing" that's just Stern being Stern as usual trying to make an opponent in a debate look ridiculous because his own points aren't strong enough to stand up well.

In my opinion, the Police are using the force given to them well right now and judging by the fact they have the support of the British Public, who, by the way, are actually here and witnessing what's going on, unlike yourself who is comfortably far away, I'd say they're not being overly oppressive or brutal at all.

 

[CptStern]

You know, just because you keep saying the words "You're far too emotionally invested" it doesn't mean it's suddenly going to become true.

your words make it true?

Stern, I don't think you have quite gripped the gravity of this situation. Police for days HAVE been sitting there having bricks thrown at them. There's much footage available of it on the internet, if you'd just care to actually look for it for 2 seconds.

and that somehow allows police to step outside the boundaries of the law? this is why I say you're being melodramatic and letting emotion cloud your judgement? it's not my block that's burning but when it was (see toronto riots) I stil wanted the cops to work within the boundaries of the law which they didnt and as a result they've completely lost the trust and respect of most torontonians. public inquiries, police being charged with assualt a city calling for the chief to resign etc etc. all in the name of protecting property

As for the "sandy vaginas lol I'm a hilarious troll" bit, how would you propose to arrest these rioters without force? Ask them nicely to drop their weapons and bend over?

you're being irrational and intentionally ignoring what I said. I said a measured response not asking for cops to hand out free crumpets as you're suggesting. is that too much to ****ing ask?

Like I said, many of these criminals admit they're doing it because the Police are powerless and can't stop them. They're hardly then going to raise their hands to the sky for a Police Officer who doesn't have the power to hit them to the ground.

the person who said cops are powerless was a girl. are you saying cops cant deal with a girl? are you saying that everyone should be met with an ever increasing level of violence simply because they may or may not be involved in criminal activity? are you at all familiar with due process? you're basically advocating that your rights mean absolutely nothing and can be suspended at any time on the whim of someone with a high school education

You're putting words in my mouth. I haven't at any point said "curb stomping or nothing" that's just Stern being Stern as usual trying to make an opponent in a debate look ridiculous because his own points aren't strong enough to stand up well.

you make yourself look ridiculous well enough you dont need my help. and you havent deflected a single point without resorting to "oh well they're criminals they deserve what they get" it's as if you're completely ignorant of your rights

In my opinion, the Police are using the force given to them well right now and judging by the fact they have the support of the British Public, who, by the way, are actually here and witnessing what's going on, unlike yourself who is comfortably far away, I'd say they're not being overly oppressive or brutal at all.

we're talking about the ****ing video stop trying to make this about every police officer and not those in the video

 

[Pi Mu Rho]

ya last time I looked police brutality wasnt part of their job. yes you're being a melodramatic ninny

Well, who else can do police brutality?

 

[CptStern]

... strippers dressed up as police?

i got nothing

 

[Stylo]

Haha, so your basing your entire opinion of The Police force being "oppressive and not doing their job" on one video? A video in which The Police stop some criminals fleeing a crime scene by hitting them a couple of times? Right, that's totally fine, then.

Your putting words in my mouth once more, by the way, just pointing that out, again.

and "The person who said the cops were powerless was a girl?" - Are you completely out of touch with this whole situation?

It seems to me like you've not even been paying attention to what's going on in Britain to be able to comment on it properly. This is not one girl's opinion, a lot of the criminals admit it, MPs have said it, The Officers themselves have said it.

These riots are a culmination of years of The Police in Britain becoming softer and softer on crime. Finally, in one foul swoop and with a pretty poor excuse, major cities in England have erupted in violence, looting and destruction.

It's not as simple as this one video Stern, you can't just base your entire opinon of these riots on that. Maybe if you actually knew anything about the progression of law enforcement in this country and how much of the younger generations have been able to get off lightly with more and more, you'd understand why a lot of people are pleased that force is being used to deal with these idiots.

Our Police need to show people that they won't stand for this behaviour. That they're wrong that they can do what they want. They need to show the innocent public that they are on their side and that they will fight for them. That is precisely what they are doing right now.

All you're doing is flinging insults at people who disagree with you when you don't even have enough knowledge of the events to even make a coherent and solid point that doesn't make it seem like you have no idea what you're talking about.

You're simply stating that The Police are being fascist and all you've done so far is be a massive hypocrite.

You state that The British Public are being armchair citizens while you yourself sit there comfortably behind your computer screen calling the Police here oppressive and fascist. I think you should probably look at yourself if you want an armchair dictator.

 

[CptStern]

Haha, so your basing your entire opinion of The Police force being "oppressive and not doing their job" on one video? A video in which The Police stop some criminals fleeing a crime scene by hitting them a couple of times? Right, that's totally fine, then.

no you are. I'm talking about the video specifically not the entire police force

Your putting words in my mouth once more, by the way, just pointing that out, again.

and "The person who said the cops were powerless was a girl?" - Are you completely out of touch with this whole situation?

you said this:

Like I said, many of these criminals admit they're doing it because the Police are powerless and can't stop them.

these are the people who have publically admitted that the police cant stop them:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14458424

sounds like girls to me

It seems to me like you've not even been paying attention to what's going on in Britain to be able to comment on it properly. This is not one girl's opinion, a lot of the criminals admit it, MPs have said it, The Officers themselves have said it.

I was referring to that one statement that echoed your post; that they were powerless to stop them. whether other people are saying it or not is immaterial because I was talking about that specific incident and nothing else

These riots are a culmination of years of The Police in Britain becoming softer and softer on crime. Finally, in one foul swoop and with a pretty poor excuse, major cities in England have erupted in violence, looting and destruction.

you seem to be saying that this happened because police are soft on crime when it's the exact opposite: it started because people saw them as being heavy handed

It's not as simple as this one video Stern, you can't just base your entire opinon of these riots on that.

ffs man what the hell is wrong with you? since when did I say anything about the goddam riot as a whole? we were talking about the video not the entire riot in general. you keep assuming I'm making a blanket statement on the entire police force's handling of the riot when I'm in fact talking about the video and nothing else. no other evidence of police brutality has been presented in this thread besides the video so why would you extend it to the entire police force? unless your points were flimsy to begin with so you decided to change course to make it sound like I'm saying the entire police force is being heavy handed.

Maybe if you actually knew anything about the progression of law enforcement in this country and how much of the younger generations have been able to get off lightly with more and more, you'd understand why a lot of people are pleased that force is being used to deal with these idiots.

who the **** cares? this has nothing to do with the cops response in that video. you're just pulling shit out of the thin air in the hopes of turning this debate into something of your choosing

Our Police need to show people that they won't stand for this behaviour.

yes by beating teenagers in a deserted area not knowing that someone was filming them? either the Police dept PR is staffed by retards or that was never the point to begin with IN THAT SPECIFIC INCIDENT WHICH IS WHAT WE'VE TALKING ABOUT THIS WHOLE TIME

That they're wrong that they can do what they want. They need to show the innocent public that they are on their side and that they will fight for them. That is precisely what they are doing right now.

arresting is one thing. what was on that video was completely unnecessary but you're ignoring that to make some nebulous point that they deserve what they get because personal freedoms mean absolutely nothing to you. to hell with due process lets bust heads regardless if they're guilty or not.

All you're doing is flinging insults at people who disagree with you when you don't even have enough knowledge of the events to even make a coherent and solid point that doesn't make it seem like you have no idea what you're talking about.

lol that's exactly what you're doing you havent made a single point in this thread that isnt emotionally based and without taking into account your own laws. emotional and irrational

You're simply stating that The Police are being fascist and all you've done so far is be a massive hypocrite.

you dont even understand what hypocrite means. and not once did I say or claim the cops are being fascist. YOU DID

You state that The British Public are being armchair citizens while you yourself sit there comfortably behind your computer screen calling the Police here oppressive and fascist. I think you should probably look at yourself if you want an armchair dictator.

you dont even see you're being hypocritical by advocating police ignore the law when dealing with people who ignore the law. the law means nothing to do yet at the same time you're asking that police uphold the law. the contradictory nature of your posts is enough to make ones head spin. also not once did I say that the british public are being armchair citizens (what does that even mean?)

 

[Smoke]

This thread took a nosedive into quotation fight land.

 

[Raziaar]

This thread took a nosedive into quotation fight land.

There's a catalyst involved in that.

 

[Dr.Demento]

We don't get very many cool riot situations in games, unfortunately. Riots in games are fun.

We need a current-gen State of Emergency game with GTAIV ragdoll physics and Saint's Row 2 level of chaos. That would be heeluva fun.

BTW, check out Yahoo on this subject. The level of stupidity of some of the comments people say will make you lol.

 

[The Monkey]

@ the last page

 

[The Monkey]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/aug/11/london-riots-davidcameron

I no longer live in London. I've been transplanted to Los Angeles by a combination of love and money; such good fortune and opportunity, in both cases, you might think disqualify me from commenting on matters in my homeland. Even the results of Britain's Got Ice-Factor may lay prettily glistening beyond my remit now that I am self-banished.

To be honest when I lived in England I didn't really care too much for the fabricated theatrics of reality TV. Except when I worked for Big Brother, then it was my job to slosh about in the amplified trivia of the housemates/inmates. Sometimes it was actually quite bloody interesting. Particularly the year that Nadia won. She was the Portuguese transsexual. Remember? No? Well, that's the nature of the medium; as it whizzes past the eyes it seems very relevant but the malady of reality TV stars is that their shelf life expires, like dog years, by the power of seven. To me it seems as if Nadia's triumph took place during the silver jubilee, we had a street party.

Early in that series there was an incident of excitement and high tension. The testosteronal, alpha figures of the house – a Scot called Jason and a Londoner called Victor – incited by the teasing conditions and a camp lad called Marco (wow, it's all coming back) kicked off in the house, smashed some crockery and a few doors. Police were called, tapes were edited and the carnival rolled on. When I was warned to be discreet on-air about the extent of the violence, I quoted a British first-world-war general who, reflecting on the inability of his returning troops to adapt to civilian life, said: "You cannot rouse the animal in man then expect it to be put aside at a moment's notice."

"Yeah, that's exactly the kind of thing we want you to say the opposite of," said the channel's representative.

This week's riots are sad and frightening and, if I have by virtue of my temporary displacement forgone the right to speak about the behaviour of my countrymen, then this is gonna be irksome. I mean even David Cameron came back from his holiday. Eventually. The Tuscan truffles lost their succulence when the breaking glass became too loud to ignore. Then dopey ol' Boris came cycling back into the London clutter with his spun gold hair and his spun shit logic as it became apparent that the holiday was over.

In fact, it isn't my absence from the territory of London that bothers me; it's my absence from the economic class that is being affected that itches in my gut because, as I looked at the online incident maps, the boroughs that were suffering all, for me, had some resonance. I've lived in Dalston, Hackney, Elephant, Camden and Bethnal Green. I grew up round Dagenham and Romford and, whilst I could never claim to be from the demographic most obviously affected, I feel guilty that I'm not there now.

I feel proud to be English, proud to be a Londoner (all right, an Essex boy), never more so than since being in exile, and I naturally began to wonder what would make young people destroy their communities.

I have spoken to mates in London and Manchester and they sound genuinely frightened and hopeless, and the details of their stories place this outbreak beyond the realms of any political idealism or rationalisation. But I can't, from my ivory tower in the Hollywood Hills, compete with the understandable yet futile rhetoric, describing the rioters as mindless. Nor do I want to dwell on the sadness of our beautiful cities being tarnished and people's shops and livelihoods, sometimes generations old, being immolated. The tragic and inevitable deaths ought to be left for eulogies and grieving. Tariq Jahan has spoken so eloquently from his position of painful proximity, with such compassion, that nearly all else is redundant.

The only question I can legitimately ask is: why is this happening? Mark Duggan's death has been badly handled but no one is contesting that is a reason for these conflagrations beyond the initial flash of activity in Tottenham. I've heard Theresa May and the Old Etonians whose hols have been curtailed (many would say they're the real victims) saying the behaviour is "unjustifiable" and "unacceptable". Wow! Thanks guys! What a wonderful use of the planet's fast-depleting oxygen resources. Now that's been dealt with can we move on to more taxing matters such as whether or not Jack The Ripper was a ladies' man. And what the hell do bears get up to in those woods?

However "unacceptable" and "unjustifiable" it might be, it has happened so we better accept it and, whilst we can't justify it, we should kick around a few neurons and work out why so many people feel utterly disconnected from the cities they live in.

Unless on the news tomorrow it's revealed that there's been a freaky "criminal creating" chemical leak in London and Manchester and Liverpool and Birmingham that's causing young people to spontaneously and simultaneously violate their environments – in which case we can park the ol' brainboxes, stop worrying and get on with the football season, but I suspect there hasn't – we have, as human beings, got a few things to consider together.

I should here admit that I have been arrested for criminal damage for my part in anti-capitalist protest earlier in this decade. I often attended protests and then, in my early 20s, and on drugs, I enjoyed it when the protests lost direction and became chaotic, hostile even. I was intrigued by the anarchist "Black bloc", hooded and masked, as, in retrospect, was their agenda, but was more viscerally affected by the football "casuals" who'd turn up because the veneer of the protest's idealistic objective gave them the perfect opportunity to wreck stuff and have a row with the Old Bill.

That was never my cup of tea though. For one thing, policemen are generally pretty good fighters and second, it registered that the accent they shouted at me with was closer to my own than that of some of those singing about the red flag making the wall of plastic shields between us seem thinner.

I found those protests exciting, yes, because I was young and a bit of a twerp but also, I suppose, because there was a void in me. A lack of direction, a sense that I was not invested in the dominant culture, that government existed not to look after the interests of the people it was elected to represent but the big businesses that they were in bed with.

I felt that, and I had a mum who loved me, a dad who told me that nothing was beyond my reach, an education, a grant from Essex council (to train as an actor of all things!!!) and several charities that gave me money for maintenance. I shudder to think how disenfranchised I would have felt if I had been deprived of that long list of privileges.

That state of deprivation though is, of course, the condition that many of those rioting endure as their unbending reality. No education, a weakened family unit, no money and no way of getting any. JD Sports is probably easier to desecrate if you can't afford what's in there and the few poorly paid jobs there are taken. Amidst the bleakness of this social landscape, squinting all the while in the glare of a culture that radiates ultraviolet consumerism and infrared celebrity. That daily, hourly, incessantly enforces the egregious, deceitful message that you are what you wear, what you drive, what you watch and what you watch it on, in livid, neon pixels. The only light in their lives comes from these luminous corporate messages. No wonder they have their ****ing hoods up.

I remember Cameron saying "hug a hoodie" but I haven't seen him doing it. Why would he? Hoodies don't vote, they've realised it's pointless, that whoever gets elected will just be a different shade of the "we don't give a toss about you" party.

Politicians don't represent the interests of people who don't vote. They barely care about the people who do vote. They look after the corporations who get them elected. Cameron only spoke out against News International when it became evident to us, US, the people, not to him (like Rose West, "He must've known") that the newspapers Murdoch controlled were happy to desecrate the dead in the pursuit of another exploitative, distracting story.

Why am I surprised that these young people behave destructively, "mindlessly", motivated only by self-interest? How should we describe the actions of the city bankers who brought our economy to its knees in 2010? Altruistic? Mindful? Kind? But then again, they do wear suits, so they deserve to be bailed out, perhaps that's why not one of them has been imprisoned. And they got away with a lot more than a few ****ing pairs of trainers.

These young people have no sense of community because they haven't been given one. They have no stake in society because Cameron's mentor Margaret Thatcher told us there's no such thing.

If we don't want our young people to tear apart our communities then don't let people in power tear apart the values that hold our communities together.

As you have by now surely noticed, I don't know enough about politics to ponder a solution and my hands are sticky with blood money from representing corporate interests through film, television and commercials, venerating, through my endorsements and celebrity, products and a lifestyle that contributes to the alienation of an increasingly dissatisfied underclass. But I know, as we all intuitively know, the solution is all around us and it isn't political, it is spiritual. Gandhi said: "Be the change you want to see in the world."

In this simple sentiment we can find hope, as we can in the efforts of those cleaning up the debris and ash in bonhomous, broom-wielding posses. If we want to live in a society where people feel included, we must include them, where they feel represented, we must represent them and where they feel love and compassion for their communities then we, the members of that community, must find love and compassion for them.

As we sweep away the mistakes made in the selfish, nocturnal darkness we must ensure that, amidst the broken glass and sadness, we don't sweep away the youth lost amongst the shards in the shadows cast by the new dawn.

Stop on, IMO.