North and South Korean Tension

[DEATH eVADER]

I heard the war never technically ended after the 1953 armistice, but I found this though.

Additionally, on October 4, 2007, the leaders of North and South Korea pledged to hold summit talks to officially declare the war over and reaffirmed the principle of mutual non-aggression

So did they aknowledge mutual non-aggresion or did it not take place?


The Major players in this are South Korea, US, Japan, and China (I'm not sure to what extent Russia is involved). If the conflict escalates, what would that do to the world economy given its fragile state?

 

[flamingdts]

But isn't it China that's the main supplier of food aid for NK? (note: I'm not 100% about this) It's also them that are at risk of being flooded with NK immigrants. So it's not like they will sit back and accept whatever happens.

You're correct, China makes up for a large portion of NK food and good supplies.

The thing is, it's one of those situations where you have a retarded, annoying, fight picking friend. You know that friend won't listen to you, and you know that friend always gets into shit. So might as well just stay out of everything.

The best thing in my opinion is for the US and China to stay out of this whole mess. From what the reports suggested, it's a case "that's my spot". SK played in a territory that NK believes belonged to them, so NK started firing. None of the US or China's business to intrude at this moment, and any military involvement from the two will only escalate more violence.

 

[CptStern]

war is what SK and it's allies want because NK would be quickly defeated and a puppet regime could be put in it's place all without breaking a sweat/killing millions. just like what happened in iraq. how's that going btw?

it's the usual saber rattling that comes before a round of talks with the west offering them bribes (re: sanctions lifted) to behave properly

 

[StarBob]

I heard the war never technically ended after the 1953 armistice, but I found this though.

So did they aknowledge mutual non-aggresion or did it not take place?

The war ended but there was never a cease fire. They just drew lines and established a DMZ where ... basicaly if anyone wanders across they get killed or captured. The UN basically stepped out of it and accepted what went down. I'm not even sure any land was gained or lost by either side. They've been in a state of constant battle ready every day since.

 

[flamingdts]

war is what SK and it's allies want because NK would be quickly defeated and a puppet regime could be put in it's place all without breaking a sweat/killing millions. just like what happened in iraq. how's that going btw?

it's the usual saber rattling that comes before a round of talks with the west offering them bribes (re: sanctions lifted) to behave properly

Yep, except this time NK is doing this to get their nuclear development sanctions lifted, at least that's what reports are suggesting after the recent construction of the uranium enriching facility.

The war ended but there was never a cease fire. They just drew lines and established a DMZ where ... basicaly if anyone wanders across they get killed or captured. The UN basically stepped out of it and accepted what went down. I'm not even sure any land was gained or lost by either side. They've been in a state of constant battle ready every day since.

Actually, it's the other way around. There was a cease fire, but a peace treaty was never signed. So technically, the war never ended, they just stopped firing.

 

[Polaris]

Just noticed that South Korea have a pretty badass president.

 

[YROC]

Looks like an asian version of Putin.

 

[15357]

Now that the dust has settled, its clear that nothing is going to happen. Must be nice to have a spineless government.

Yeah, I've known for quite some time that only cowards hold power in this country. Of course, realistically speaking, war is not such a good idea when your main goal is prosperity.

Still, I'd like to hear about what happened in the NK lines, although not much info ever comes out from there.

 

[The Monkey]

I think China will indeed do everything in its power to stop a war. Partly because that would mean millions of North Korean refugees into their country, and partly because they would be forced to abandon their ally, North Korea, which would look bad on an idealogical and political level.

 

[Jerry_111]

So this is basically a 50+ year game of chicken and "I DOUBLE DOG DARE YOU"?

 

[Uriel]

Yeah, enough is enough. This should have ended in the 80's.

 

[Dan]

Yeah, I've known for quite some time that only cowards hold power in this country. Of course, realistically speaking, war is not such a good idea when your main goal is prosperity.

Or when your largest city is within artillery range of the border.

 

[VirusType2]

I saw in the news recently that the US and SK have been planning extensive training missions in the area. China and Russia both say it's a very bad idea. NK is obviously the reason for the training, so NK is basically treating it as actions of war. The US and SK refused to cancel the training missions because honestly, they aren't going to be controlled by NK. So I think that's how this all started.

Russia and China obviously do not want the US 'all up in their shit' right on their border, if NK is toppled.

 

[Raziaar]

Just move Seoul.

Roll out the Daewoo U-Hauls.

 

[Warped]

Just move Seoul.

Roll out the Daewoo U-Hauls.

LOL!

nice one

 

[Mr-Fusion]

I saw in the news recently that the US and SK have been planning extensive training missions in the area. China and Russia both say it's a very bad idea. NK is obviously the reason for the training, so NK is basically treating it as actions of war. The US and SK refused to cancel the training missions because honestly, they aren't going to be controlled by NK. So I think that's how this all started.

Russia and China obviously do not want the US 'all up in their shit' right on their border, if NK is toppled.

It is a terrible idea. The stupidity of the U.S knows no bounds.

Imagine if China sent numerous ships to the Carribean to "train".

We'd have a nuclear war.

 

[VirusType2]

Well, it's not a surprise. NK has been saber rattling for years, (testing nukes!) and has now just built a nuclear facility in the past 2 years.

Russia -> Cuba / Cold War. I don't think you can compare this to the Cuban missile crisis. We are sort of allies with Russia and China.

 

[15357]

It is a terrible idea. The stupidity of the U.S knows no bounds.

Imagine if China sent numerous ships to the Carribean to "train".

We'd have a nuclear war.

Well I find those training excercises as reassuring. They're basically saying that they'll help their allies. This is why most S. Koreans don't join the anti-US fad that's so popular among people nowadays. We realize that the US is the only thing standing between us and the Chinese hegemony.


Also, fun quote from the Defense minister today, while answering questions by a congressional committee:

"Have you played Starcraft? In Starcraft your units automatically respond [to enemy fire]. War is not like that."

 

[VirusType2]

Despite its impoverishment and heavy dependence on Chinese aid and support, North Korea seems to regularly defy every Chinese diplomatic initiative, from Beijing’s work to keep the Korean Peninsula nuclear-free to its efforts to prevent a violent confrontation.

Despite its efforts to accommodate North Korea’s idiosyncratic political system, China was apparently caught off guard by the recent developments. The news that North Korea had built a sophisticated uranium enrichment plant was received with incredulity by Chinese media outlets. The normally nationalistic Global Times cited experts who cast doubt on China’s diplomatic strategy and said that North Korea had been “purposefully hard-line.”

The North Korean shelling of a South Korean island seemed to have been even more of a shock. On Tuesday, Chinese officials implied that they had no advance knowledge at all and still had no contact. At a press briefing, a Foreign Ministry spokesman said China needed to verify media reports.

China also called on all sides to return to “six-party talks” between the main countries involved in the region. But almost no Chinese analyst seems to believe that this will result in anything until North Korea shows an eagerness to negotiate rather than make demands — the current one seeming to be that the world recognize it as a full nuclear power with no strings attached.

Speaking in Beijing on Tuesday evening, the United States special envoy to North Korea, Stephen W. Bosworth, also called for a return to the six-nation talks and said he had “very useful” talks with Chinese officials. The two sides, he said, agreed on the need for multilateralism.

But during previous negotiations, North Korea used the time to further develop its nuclear capacity, even though this was against China’s public position. China has also repeatedly called for calm and the avoidance of armed confrontation, but the two Koreas are now shelling each other.

In 2006, for example, China had almost no warning of a North Korean missile test, leading Beijing to call it “brazen” — fighting words compared with China’s normal response.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/24/world/asia/24beijing.html

 

[Remus]

If this shit comtinues something tells me they'll lose even China's support.

 

[flamingdts]

China wants to stay off NK's hit list, so they're letting NK push them around at the moment. I'm pretty sure China would abandon NK if they could, except knowing how unpredictable NK is, who is to say China won't top their hit list if they ever did abandon NK? Heck, NK might just go war frenzy if their major good and aid provider abandoned them.

Funny thing is, if NK and SK could ever reconcile, it might just reduce any tension between US and China.

 

[DEATHMASTER]

Hit list? China being afraid of NK is a laughable joke.

 

[flamingdts]

Of course they are afraid of NK. Who isn't? Everyone is afraid of war, and NK is the only country at the moment who seem like they have no problem starting a full scale war against anyone.

 

[ktimekiller]

Well I find those training excercises as reassuring. They're basically saying that they'll help their allies. This is why most S. Koreans don't join the anti-US fad that's so popular among people nowadays. We realize that the US is the only thing standing between us and the Chinese hegemony.


Also, fun quote from the Defense minister today, while answering questions by a congressional committee:

"Have you played Starcraft? In Starcraft your units automatically respond [to enemy fire]. War is not like that."

Wait, who said that?

 

[15357]

Wait, who said that?

The Minister of Defense, lol.

He was trying to explain to those female and those that had never served in the military how hard it is to line up and fire artillery at a target. 5 minutes to load... 5 more to get the angles right, etc. etc. 13 minutes to retaliate isn't too long, you see.

 

[VirusType2]

China wants to stay off NK's hit list, so they're letting NK push them around at the moment.

I'm pretty sure China would abandon NK if they could

, except knowing how unpredictable NK is, who is to say China won't top their hit list if they ever did abandon NK?

Heck, NK might just go war frenzy if their major good and aid provider abandoned them.

Each of those statements is absolutely ridiculous.

China is allied with NK because China:

1) Wants allies on its borders
2) Doesn't want NK refugees
3) Doesn't want anyone of a threat on its borders

Of course they are afraid of NK. Who isn't?

What are you smoking? NK is like a chihuahua - a chihuahua with rabies that needs to be treated or put down.

Everyone is afraid of war, and NK is the only country at the moment who seem like they have no problem starting a full scale war against anyone.

There are several wars going on right now, did you know?

 

[Warped]

If theres one just war the U.S. could finish in a heartbeat this century....it'd be a North Korean War. YEEEEHAAAAWWWWWW! (rides nuke into NK just like in the movies)

 

[unozero]

No wonder Nk is doing this it's like SK has a gaping hole where their balls should be,nothing will come of this in fact I think Nk will be rewarded wiith money and aid.

 

[flamingdts]

Each of those statements is absolutely ridiculous.

China is allied with NK because China:

1) Wants allies on it's borders
2) Doesn't want NK refugees
3) Doesn't want anyone of a threat on it's borders

Yes.... and? You're either with NK or you're against them, which is what I'm basically saying.

You don't think NK is unpredictable? You don't think NK will be pissed if China abandoned them? Heck you don't think NK is trying to get some sanctions lifted with this whole mess?

What are you smoking? NK is like a chihuahua - a chihuahua with rabies that needs to be treated or put down.

Oh don't worry I don't smoke.

But it's only a chihuahua infected with rabies right? You want to stick your hand in there and treat it?

There are several wars going on right now, did you know?

Just because there are several wars going on does not mean no one is afraid of it.

Or are you suggesting China is more than willing to start a war with NK? Or SK and US are more than willing to start a war with NK?

 

[VirusType2]

No wonder Nk is doing this it's like SK has a gaping hole where their balls should be,nothing will come of this in fact I think Nk will be rewarded wiith money and aid.

I'm assuming SK are - as we speak - acquiring megatons of offensive and defensive ordnance from the US, along with reinforcements of all kinds.

SK has issued a warning that any further attack would result in an "enormous retaliation".

SK would absolutely decimate NK, but it's not really a good deal for them, because NK doesn't really have much worth blowing up:

(Korean Peninsula at night)

I put the image side by side to show that the capitol of NK is just about the only developed part of NK.

So, what I'm saying is that SK doesn't really have anything to gain and everything to lose. Seoul SK is extremely valuable to South Korea's economy and is well within range of NK. So to suggest that they jump in a war without a second thought is retarded.

Just because there are several wars going on does not mean no one is afraid of it.

Or are you suggesting China is more than willing to start a war with NK? Or SK and US are more than willing to start a war with NK?

I don't know what your point is. Yes, things blowing up and international relations to be considered. That's a given. But you suggest that China is afraid of NK, and I can't stop laughing at the thought. China is economically number one, and militarily the second most powerful country in the world, which has a 54 billion dollar yearly defense budget, with the world's highest population fit for service. And to suggest that NK would turn on its only ally in the world, because they didn't back them up? It's not making sense.

Heck you don't think NK is trying to get some sanctions lifted with this whole mess?

It's possible. I don't know what their plan is. I'm not even sure if they know what they are doing.

 

[flamingdts]

I don't know what your point is. Yes, things blowing up and international relations to be considered. That's a given. But you suggest that China is afraid of NK, and I can't stop laughing at the thought. China is - militarily - the second most powerful country in the world, which has a 54 billion dollar yearly defense budget, with the world's highest population. And to suggest that NK would turn on its only ally in the world, because they didn't back them up? That doesn't even make any sense.

Then you misinterpreted me completely. China will absolutely steam roll NK if they have to, but that doesn't mean they aren't afraid of NK, or the shit they'll be dragged into, or the consequences of everything.

Going back to your chihuahua example. Any grown man could easily kill that rabies infected chihuahua if they have to, but that chihuahua will bite, and the bite will hurt. China does not want to get bitten, which is why I'm saying they're afraid. They don't want a war, and if they do get one there will be casualties. No one wants war casualties, even if their probability of winning the war is 99%.

And of course NK won't turn on China, but if China ever did abandon NK, you don't think NK will be pretty pissed at China? You don't think China will top NK' hate list?

 

[Katamariguy]

That our president reminds me of George W. Bush makes me very,very afraid.

 

[VirusType2]

Then you misinterpreted me completely. China will absolutely steam roll NK if they have to, but that doesn't mean they aren't afraid of NK, or the shit they'll be dragged into, or the consequences of everything.

Going back to your chihuahua example. Any grown man could easily kill that rabies infected chihuahua if they have to, but that chihuahua will bite, and the bite will hurt. China does not want to get bitten, which is why I'm saying they're afraid. They don't want a war, and if they do get one there will be casualties. No one wants war casualties, even if their probability of winning the war is 99%.

And of course NK won't turn on China, but if China ever did abandon NK, you don't think NK will be pretty pissed at China? You don't think China will top NK' hate list?

Look, forget the chihuahua. Moving on, I seriously don't understand how you think that NK would attack China because they didn't help them fight. What are you talking about? I would guess that NK doesn't have a single weapon pointed at China.

Yes, "dragged into" is absolutely right. Finally, something I agree with. However, at this point, I don't think that China will contest it much if SK attacks NK.

China would rather NK on it's border than the US. Not because we aren't allied (the US and China are deeply tied economically), but because it's a powerful position... China doesn't have bases on a US border.

 

[15357]

That our president reminds me of George W. Bush makes me very,very afraid.

Cowards and defeatists, man. Cowards and defeatists.

 

[Uriel]

Guess we're sending this badboy for the exercise

 

[Top Secret]

I wonder what the Illusive Man has planned...

 

[JUL3]

So... if things escalate here & a second Korean war comes about, will there be a return series of M*A*S*H?

 

[Shakermaker]

So... if things escalate here & a second Korean war comes about, will there be a return series of M*A*S*H?

I certainly hope so.

 

[Kula Meenur]

Stay safe Numbers. Thoughts are with you, your friends and family at this time.

 

[kazsymonds]

I just hope SK have hidden their starport.